Imazing idea!...

[THG repo]

OKDOKY i havnt been in this forum for a while now...
but a while ago i sugested the idea of complelty removing the jump key/movement.
In a warzone when your carrying kg's of grenades ammo rifles armour food spade etc etc i dont think you would be jumping at all.
No RO lvls have any things you have to leap accross.
Also try getting over a fence you will eather hit into it! and fall over or you will CLIMB over it.
This brings me to my point. In a combat simulator like RO their is no place for jumping!

(Using the new prone system if you are running and pressing foward you should leap though the air but if you press back as you hit prone from run you should hit the ground as fast as possible.)

But something that should be used is climbing like climbing up a wall climbing over a high fence etc etc
This would create a much more realistic combat situation and allow snipers and ambushers some freedom of imagination(which is what makes all games games). With climb i can now be where i want! (within reason). Maybe you need ut3 engine maybe its alot of work.
But i expect RO to lead the gaming world by removing jump and having climb.

Also I like the look of the new reichstag map, i wish all RO maps were based on REAL situations even if its just the devos neighbourhood!

So when you use climbing unstead of jumping you will be free from the Death Match begings of FPS games and will truly be an original and complete combat simulator.

[worluk]

you cant jump with a backpack? wow, you must be in one bad physical condition. If you cant jump, you are also not able to run. No one denies that the animation and the height of the jump in the betas where too high, but removing jumping is just, uhm, unrealistic...

for the leaping: trenches?

[Switchblade]

Ok after some editing this thread is open again.

feel free to respond, but keep it civil

[THG repo]

thanks for reopening


Ive played all of the ro maps and the very few times that you need to actually need to 'jump' can easily be replaced by climbing in then out or 'leaping'. (and by leaping i mean throwing urself and rolling etc on the landing)
Dont worry im fit enough to jump and run But ww2 fighters carried alot of stuff i think it was around the 60-80kg range. You would leave most of the bulky items in ur hole. Alot of your stuff left behind would get nicked though esp in the red army or in the 'ketal' or wateva the german word is for the encirclement outside/in stalingrad.

Its the movement of a jump and the way the avatar moves that is wrong not the ability to clear obstacles in a single leap.
Remeber red armymen were underfeed undertrained pesants and germans wernt that much better of.

So even if u and me can jump trenchs carrying grenades guns ammo etc a lice infested starving scared soldier isnt going to be so gun-ho ,maybe to many american movies eh?

[Stiler]

I don't think they should get rid of jumping or anything.

Rather just tie it to stamina aswell as not allow you to shoot, etc as normal.

I'd like to see jumping (for getting over small obstacles like fallen tree's, etc) and also a way to pick yourself up and over an object, like getting over fences/stone walls. IMO that's something that's very very needed.

[Subjective Effect]

I use jump all the time. I jump over trenches, gaps in floors in urban/factory settings, over some small walls like, all the time.

Why remove it? What does it do wrong? It's not a big jump and you can't bunny hop really. You could nerf it a bit so that it tires you a little bit more but removing it is not sensible. How else would you handle trench jumping? Don't tell me you can't jump over one. I though RO was supposed to be realistic.

a way to pick yourself up and over an object, like getting over fences/stone walls

Yes, mantling like in Thief would be great. Realistic too.

[SgtH3nry3]

Never get rid of jumping!!!
You should only limit it to realistic scale.

Now imagine that you carry so much loot... Which means if you land incorrectly, you could easily snap your foot.

After you jump, there should be some sort of a time-interval of maybe 1 sec or even more between the touching the ground and standing up again.

Try it. But instead of wearing loot you jump from a 4-ft wall with a backpack/rucksack full of schoolbooks.

You'll notice that you are having trouble standing straight without bending you knees when you touch the ground.
Now this effect is what you need in Red Orchestra.

But!!!!
I still stand my ground concerning the climbing-feature which is featured in both Mafia and Hidden & Dangerous 2.
It will help you to get to somethings.

But to climb and jump you need stamina.
And climbing certain heights will drain various amounts of stamina...

Please feel free to comment this suggestion.

[Lonyo]

Have any of you played RO? Seriously.
You can't bunnyhop, no hope of it. You can't jump when you have run out of stamina. You don't jump very high (barely enough to get over some objects), and I don't know of anyone who uses jumping to avoid getting shot, so game-wise in Ro3.3 the only use of jump is to do things like getting over objects, which is what you are suggesting replacing it with, a way to get over objects.
If you can't jump with 60kg's and a rifle, how could you necessarily climb with 60kg's and a rifle? You probably couldn't unless you domped all your stuff.
Climbing some stuff would be nice, but it's not really necessary, since most places that are around to be usable by sniper etc are accessible anyway, so there's no need to allow climbing when you can get there already.

[SgtH3nry3]

Originally Posted by Lonyo

Have any of you played RO? Seriously.

Sure, as long as the CIA servers were up that is ...

Originally Posted by Lonyo

If you can't jump with 60kg's and a rifle, how could you necessarily climb with 60kg's and a rifle? You probably couldn't unless you domped all your stuff.

Wrong. It is very possible, as long as you don't try to climb on things the way Rambo does.
You don't climb with 2 arms, you climb with 2 arms and 2 legs... Typically something Hollywood has been f***ing up with all those stupid movies.

Originally Posted by Lonyo

Climbing some stuff would be nice, but it's not really necessary, since most places that are around to be usable by sniper etc are accessible anyway, so there's no need to allow climbing when you can get there already.

That is true, but if you look at it that way... Jumping is pretty useless too.

[[TW]DrGuppy]

As I've said a few times before: Jumping should be limited so you can only do it with the forward key pressed down. There isn't any realistic reason people should be allowed to jump backwards or sideways because it doesn't happen in real life. Yes, I know it is technically possible, but on the battlefield it doesn't happen and for RO it just leads to people jumping back and froth to aviod shots.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by Lonyo

Have any of you played RO? Seriously.
You can't bunnyhop, no hope of it. You can't jump when you have run out of stamina. You don't jump very high (barely enough to get over some objects), and I don't know of anyone who uses jumping to avoid getting shot, so game-wise in Ro3.3 the only use of jump is to do things like getting over objects, which is what you are suggesting replacing it with, a way to get over objects.
If you can't jump with 60kg's and a rifle, how could you necessarily climb with 60kg's and a rifle? You probably couldn't unless you domped all your stuff.
Climbing some stuff would be nice, but it's not really necessary, since most places that are around to be usable by sniper etc are accessible anyway, so there's no need to allow climbing when you can get there already.

Alot of people jump out of cover to let a rifleman just miss their only shot and then have to face the rebolt :P

[Subjective Effect]

But if you have the nads of steel to do that you deserve to get the advantage of the tactic.

Yes, I know it is technically possible, but on the battlefield it doesn't happen and for RO it just leads to people jumping back and froth to aviod shots.

Actually I think people will have done this in RL. Imagine firing a shot at an enemy 100m away only for their comrade to pop up around the corner 20m away. I bet people would try to anticipate the shot and jump or dive out of the way, even if you had a bolt and the enemy had an SMG meaning you have no hope of survival if he chooses to advance and fire.

[[TW]DrGuppy]

This can be dealt with through sprinting or the dive key. Keeping the ability to strafe-jump is realistic in about 1 out of every 1000 uses. Too many times I've been sitting in the trenches of Ponyri, watching an enemy's head bob along about to come into full view and have them jump sideways whilst shooting with their SMG. Or trying to fire at someone running along the street as they jump back and forth. Shouldn't happen in RO.

[[CoR]MiccyNarc]

Wow the thought of removing jumping makes my skin crawl.

Jumping is a basic part of FPS and the game would feel clunky and unrealistic without it.

[RedStorm]

Originally Posted by [CoR]MiccyNarc

Wow the thought of removing jumping makes my skin crawl.

Jumping is a basic part of FPS and the game would feel clunky and unrealistic without it.

That's where you're completely wrong, though. Jumping makes RO feel like Quake quite frankly. Just because of this small feature, Hidden & Dangerous 2 'feels' more realistic than Red Orchestra. Just because of their leaping/climbing. The day jumping is removed from Red Orchestra will be the day that the entire gameplay style changes from rambo run-and-gun to a more cautious gameplay style. I'm all for that.

The simple fact that jumping is an intergral part of every FPS should say enough. It was necesarry in the ancient FPS games as they weren't advanced enough to incorporate climbing or leaping, but games like HD2 etc. have changed that perspective. Any game that says they're "realistic" really can't have the old-fashioned 'hop' in it.

Furthermore, leaping and climbing over obstacles would give your surroundings a far more lively feel. It'd feel more like you're controlling a soldier on a battlefield instead of a static arena, and I think leaping and climbing would go great with the new interactivity the developers are trying to incorporate in Red Orchestra: Ostfront '41-'45 with the weapon deployment system.

[Subjective Effect]

The simple fact that jumping IS an intergral part of every FPS should say enough

But so is running. Should we take sprint away?

The stamina hit should be increased but you can't take it away completely and I'm sure it won't go as the devs realise this.

[RedStorm]

Originally Posted by Subjective Effect

But so is running. Should we take sprint away?

The stamina hit should be increased but you can't take it away completely and I'm sure it won't go as the devs realise this.

That's just a silly remark... what do you think you'd see more often on a battlefield, a soldier hopping or a soldier running?

Besides, it's been proven it works. You can't get around the more realistic gameplay feel Hidden & Dangerous 2 has. The vertical I-won't-use-my-hands-just-my-feet-to-get-on-anything-I-want-and-still-be-able-to-shoot hop is really very outdated and needs to go from anything but the run-n-gun FPS games like Quake or Unreal Tournament/Serious Sam. It has no place at all in a war simulation.

[Desantnik]

Take it from a Marine in SOI...I do a lot of jumping when it comes to field maneuvers. I've done it with a combat load and it is quite possible. I jump over trenches, over concertina wire and over rocks that get in my way. Dont be idiots and argue what a soldier can and cannot do especially in something like jumping. Trust me...running through an obstacle/combat course with deuce gear, flak jacket, kevlar and m16a4 requires a lot of physical dexterity including...jumping.

Yours truly

Des

[[TW]DrGuppy]

I never said to remove jumping completely, I still want to be able to jump forward, just not sideways and backwards.

[blitze]

I always thought the main idea was to ditch your packs when under fire or about to engage in a hot zone. Only a fool would continue to carry a full pack whilst in hot combat. Only carry what you'd need in ammo to survive and go back for the pack afterwards. This is what I believe RO simulates with spawning being in areas where regulars would ditch all crap and then leg it into the combat zones.

To be rid of jumping is rediculous in this situation.

Anyway My 2 cents