Panzer IV H and STUG G variants.

[Sichartshofen]

Originally Posted by Zerknautscher

Why is the Panzer IV H not put into the game? I don't think it is that much work to model the "Schürzen", change the armour values and put it ingame. MP-41 was a similar thing... Panzer III L with Schürzen could also be done, as well as captured T-34s! And before everyone starts complaining that the tank-combat system has to be redone first: I think so, too, but I wanted to make that suggestion

Don't forget the StuG III Ausf G.

[Panzer Meyer]

Don't forget the Ausf A through Z for all models...lol

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

Skirts are sexy...

[Santini]

skirts are bloody vital

And no we don't need the A - Z
We just need the Pz IV H, the Stug III G, the BT-7m and the T-34/43 (hex turret)

[george]

Didn't those fall of alot? And weren't they a pain in the a$$ to clean and stuff?

Otherwise I think I read they were effective, against stuff like AT guns and stuff.

[Santini]

Yeah, they fell off alot... as for cleaning, I saw a picture somewhere of someone just beating the **** outta his skirts with a bar of some sort

[Kurtz]

Originally Posted by george

Didn't those fall of alot? And weren't they a pain in the a$$ to clean and stuff?

Both the tiger and the panther had road wheels that would freeze together, and both tanks had numerous engine and transmission problems, especially in their first actions. I'd say real world reliability isn't really a factor in RO, which I can't really say is a bad decision; imagine if your tiger's engine caught fire if you it got too hot or you can't move it out of spawn because the wheels are frozen.

[Santini]

if they froze, you'd rock the tank back and forth (forward 1, reverse) for about 3 minutes
Then presto!
Ice all broken up

[Munkie]

How would you rock a 40+ ton tank?
More plausible would be to start a campfire near the tank and melt the ice. (but it wouldn't be a fun game then )

[0bst. v¤n Sybe †]

With the engine and gears (1 and reverse) as suggested, but fire also works.

Seen pictures of ground crews liting fires underneath very hi-octane fuel using aircraft engines.

It really got cold....

[Heinz]

Originally Posted by Oi!Oi!Oi!

Skirts are sexy...

that's HAWT!!! that's the tank we need as German tankers to go at it with the T-34/76. (and later in the war, the 85).

[Harry S. Truman]

Originally Posted by george

Didn't those fall of alot? And weren't they a pain in the a$$ to clean and stuff?

Otherwise I think I read they were effective, against stuff like AT guns and stuff.

The skirts added very little protection from AP rounds, but they provided significant protection verses HEAT rounds. The skirt would prematurely detonate the warhead and the gap between the skirt and the armor would dissipate the hot gasses instead of burning into the armor. Of course, the Soviets used very few HEAT warheads, but it was quite common in American and British arsenals in the form of the PIAT and the Bazooka and some tank rounds late in the war. The Germans had a workable heat round as early as 1941 (Gr. 38 HL/C) that was used in the Panzer IV's 75mm short gun. The German Panzerfaust and the Panzershriek both used a HEAT round as well. All told, the skirts didn't provide much protection in armored warfare on the Eastern Front but were much more useful in the Western Front.

The Shurtzen was usually a 5 or 8 mm soft steel plate, but it could also be just steel mesh. It had the same effect on heat rounds. When you see photos of tanks missing a piece of shurtzen, it is most likely it was removed because it got damaged or destroyed. Even though it would look "cool", there would be really no benefit to having it on the tank, at least not in RO:OST. The biggest benefit would be the 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48, which has a significant increase in penetration over the F2's 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/43.

[Sichartshofen]

Originally Posted by Harry S. Truman

The skirts added very little protection from AP rounds, but they provided significant protection verses HEAT rounds. The skirt would prematurely detonate the warhead and the gap between the skirt and the armor would dissipate the hot gasses instead of burning into the armor. Of course, the Soviets used very few HEAT warheads, but it was quite common in American and British arsenals in the form of the PIAT and the Bazooka and some tank rounds late in the war. The Germans had a workable heat round as early as 1941 (Gr. 38 HL/C) that was used in the Panzer IV's 75mm short gun. The German Panzerfaust and the Panzershriek both used a HEAT round as well. All told, the skirts didn't provide much protection in armored warfare on the Eastern Front but were much more useful in the Western Front.

The Shurtzen was usually a 5 or 8 mm soft steel plate, but it could also be just steel mesh. It had the same effect on heat rounds. When you see photos of tanks missing a piece of shurtzen, it is most likely it was removed because it got damaged or destroyed. Even though it would look "cool", there would be really no benefit to having it on the tank, at least not in RO:OST. The biggest benefit would be the 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48, which has a significant increase in penetration over the F2's 7.5 cm KwK 40 L/43.

Schürzen was designed to protect against Soviet anti-tank rifles. Implented in RO right, this would benefit you in a PzIV H.

[EvilAmericanMan]

Seeing as German tanks rarely get attacked by Panzerfausts and side skirts ONLY protect form HEAT rounds skirts are not necesssary but the tank itself wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Kenza]

Wrong!

The skirts where added to comabt the threat from soviet ATRs like the PTRD, nothing else. the added protection from HEAT round where just a bonus

[Heinz]

Originally Posted by Harry S. Truman

Even though it would look "cool", there would be really no benefit to having it on the tank, at least not in RO:OST.

ever heard of a panzerfaust? what do you think that is? it's a big *** HEAT round. those things are liying around RO battlefields like subpoenas after a Hillary Clinton fund raiser.

come on man, use that head god gave you. of course the skirts would help in RO!!

[Heinz]

Originally Posted by EvilAmericanMan

Seeing as German tanks rarely get attacked by Panzerfausts .

in real life, yes. in RO, are you nuts?!!? what game have you been playing?????

[kabex]

I already made a very good thread about this(PzIV H):
http://www.redorchestragame.com/foru...highlight=stug

It's all explained there.

[kabex]

Bump(just because).

[Santini]

Well, I rember reading somewhere that the Pz IV H's got mistaken for Tigers all the time... so people think of them as crap tanks, but with 80mm of armor, and the L/48 gun, they were on par or just a little substandard with the 85's