Not enough incentive to play as a team?

Nenjin said:

You seriously want icons for up to 16 people on your screen at all times?

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Yes, if they're close enough. This also brings up the topics of fire teams, or making the squads smaller ... but that's a different matter for a different thread.

Why would you deny me this, so long as you have the ability to disable them?

Even for the ones that are 100s of meters away?

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No. There should be a range. Beyond that range, no more icons. And the icons needn't be huge and gaudy. Something small, tasteful. Hash marks or something. Whatever.

I want the game to be accessible on a pub level, that's all. I don't belong to a unit and I never will. I used to, in 2008, but it's simply not realistic for me anymore. I want to be able to jump on a server and coordinate with random strangers who are interested in team play. That should be possible without feeling like it's a struggle.

People are not always going to hit the tac button. I do, but I still lose my teammates and SL. I try to track my squad on the map and I do my best to stay together. It's possible, but it unnecessarily difficult. I'm not an idiot, I've been doing this a long time, but it's a chore to maintain any form of squad formation without constantly pressing buttons and wasting precious time. It shouldn't require so much effort and "skill" simply to move alongside a member of your squad. Then there's VOIP. I don't receive a notification of who's talking. It's a disembodied voice. Is it coming from someone nearby? On the other side of the map? I need an in-game icon to indicate not only who, but which player model (if they're nearby). It should be intuitive. Instinctive. Right now, it's not.

... and this is coming from a guy who was once part of a realism unit. I can only imagine how a more casual FPS-gamer feels about it.

Just my two cents, sir. I appreciate your point of view.

Deek said:

People are not always going to hit the tac button. I do, but I still lose my teammates and SL. I try to track my squad on the map and I do my best to stay together. It's possible, but it unnecessarily difficult. I'm not an idiot, I've been doing this a long time, but it's a chore to maintain any form of squad formation without constantly pressing buttons and wasting precious time. It shouldn't require so much effort and "skill" simply to move alongside a member of your squad. Then there's VOIP. I don't receive a notification of who's talking. It's a disembodied voice. Is it coming from someone nearby? On the other side of the map? I need an in-game icon to indicate not only who, but which player model (if they're nearby). It should be intuitive. Instinctive. Right now, it's not.

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I agree on all your points. I really hope TWI will have the time to fix these issues. They are not really game breaking, but I feel, could make the experience as a pubber be better.

Aye, the tac menu is clumsy and too busy. Hard to hit while still manuvering. You basically have to hold still for a minute to try and get your bearings, and if you get jumped while you're using your telepathy, you's a deadun'.

Josef Nader said:

Aye, the tac menu is clumsy and too busy. Hard to hit while still manuvering. You basically have to hold still for a minute to try and get your bearings, and if you get jumped while you're using your telepathy, you's a deadun'.

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... which isn't to say I be hatin' the tac overlay. It's a good idea. I like having the majority of my HUD hidden unless I need it (I like me some immersion, too) ... but squad and other teamwork related matters should not be hidden. Or, at the very least, they should be toggled.

For one, I don't give a damn about anything because it's a beta. Secondly, no one uses voice chat worth a damn. Lastly, call of duty freshies out and about.

TheGameexe said:

For one, I don't give a damn about anything because it's a beta. Secondly, no one uses voice chat worth a damn. Lastly, call of duty freshies out and about.

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For some reason you seem to have given enough of a damn to post that you don't give a damn in this thread as well as make what I think is some attempt at a pejorative statement about people wanting clearer team incentives...

Be Seeing you...
-Flyynt

Games that heavily rely on "team work" live a short life because of the influx of noobs is so irritating to veteran players that it causes veteran players to leave the game.

I would design the game to require SOME team work, but not too much or it'll be doomed to fail.

I agree that you should get a morale bonus for being close to your squad leader. Faster Suppression and Stamina recovery. (basically what they said "heroes" would do).

That's one of the jobs of the squad leaders. To tell you to keep fighting when you want to stop.

I think alot of folks..me included.. are hoping that the touted Honor system and ability of server admins to limit joining the server by honor amount,will cure the lack of team play

As by the look of it Honor can only realisticly be gained in good amounts by fighting and defending in the cap zones.

And all it really takes is 3 or 4 people to take a leadership role and direct the majority of the zerg and suddenly the game is a lot of fun when you feel your accomplishing stuff as a team..

Most guys I know that like to play as a team, and know how to, are busy play testing a beta right now.

That been said, a good plan and good communication is all that is really needed anyway. You do you job and stick too it so others can rely on you. It's not that difficult.

Hard enough to come by as it is, good luck finding that in a pub game.

Flyynt said:

For some reason you seem to have given enough of a damn to post that you don't give a damn in this thread as well as make what I think is some attempt at a pejorative statement about people wanting clearer team incentives...

Be Seeing you...
-Flyynt

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Because somewhere in my post I said I didn't give a damn about this thread. Great observation.

I do agree there should be some more incentive for team work.

Better able to spawn on squad leader is number 1 on my list.
If i can only spawn on them <1/2 the time it seems more or less pointless to do. I pick them and then don't spawn there anyway
most times so why bother.

Also as people can't consistently spawn on me as a squad leader it's hard to set up a plan.
Where i get into a good position and hold out until my mates spawn on me and then we go in as a group.

Yes there are some points to be had for squad stuff, but points alone are not a good incentive. it's got to offer good game play/ team play opportunity as well as points.



I strongly discourage out of game VoIP. This seriously kills TEAM play.
People in VoIP with buddies play a personal "team play" game, but fail to connect with the rest of the team for a good team plan.
They also are then not participating in the groups in game VoIP which keeps noobs from being taken into the fold quickly.

If you want an online game to do well it has to be an open group that's easy for new people to join. Without a continuous influx of new players/members all games/groups are going to shrink and disappear more quickly then groups that are easy to be included in.

A silent in game VoIP makes noobs feel alone and not like they are team playing.

On that note I do wish for a more BF2 style in game VoIP
squads to each other
commander to squad leaders

No need for everyone to talk to everyone really.
That style of VoIP offers team play ability with a balance of some realism. At least i think so anyway.

Well I like the commander/squadleader system but I think it needs some little more improvement for teamplay. When a commander/squadleader gives attack/defend orders to a specific squad/fireteam, the squadmembers who actually accomplish their orders successfully should get some teampoint extra for doing what the commander/squadleader says. I think this should improve some teamplay aspects.

It

Last thursday we were 4 [TORO] in a public server, all together as Soviets and talking via Ventrilo... We simply passed over them... we took all 4 objectives in the map in record time and leaded the scores in kills and captures... that was a good example of teamplay in this game...

Clan members with vent are expected to work together. That's not newsworthy. What we need is more incentive for public random players to work together.

That's ALWAYS the issue though. Battlefield 2: "God, I wish these pubies would just stay with us."

Killing Floor: "God I wish these pubbies would stay with us instead of running off to die."

Bad Company 2: "Where the hell is my support? I just got stabbed in the back!"

There is only one way to get pubies to play well and we already have the necessary tools (though they could be better.) And that's leading them. I know it sounds corny as ****, but lead and people will follow. Give them orders by voice and many will listen. I don't take that role but a friend of mine does, often. His attitude is "if he listens, sweet. If not, it's his ***." He even calls people brother, just to lay it on a little thick. "Hey brother, I need you watching my left flank as we go up, and I'll watch your right, ok?"

We've made squads out of nothing in several games simply because we tried. We only quit doing it because the games quit supporting us in our effort and quit supporting team work in general.

RO2, on the other hand, they can't wait to start playing, because it's the kind of game that will inspire us to start reaching out to pubies again.

Here's a better example though.

Red Oktober, Countdown. First objective. I run in, to 30 meters short of the objective, cap two guys and die at the start of the round. I watch for the next minute as 2 guys sit in the cap zone while _8_ of our guys sit in the area I died camping.

I simply say "You guys have to get in that cap zone."

"All 8 of you."

And what do I see? 7 dots creeping forward that push into the cap zone. We take the objective. That game goes on for another 15 minutes and I do amazing.

It doesn't always work but if you want team mates you have to try.

Nenjin said:

"Hey brother, I need you watching my left flank as we go up, and I'll watch your right, ok?"

It doesn't always work but if you want team mates you have to try.

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The problem I have with that is hearing a disembodied voice tell me to cover their left flank is not something I can accommodate. Who's left flank shall I cover, there are 31 nearly identical looking guys on my team many of which might be situated on my right. I don't even know if the disembodied voice is on my squad or my team. When I am playing with people I know it is of great benefit to use voice, when I am on a server with people I do not know whose voices I do not know and screen names that I do not know I find it to be of limited value.

I can assure you that I make every effort to play as a team. Often to my own detriment!

Good discussion though.

Be Seeing You...
-Flyynt

Nenjin said:

There is only one way to get pubies to play well and we already have the necessary tools (though they could be better.) And that's leading them. I know it sounds corny as ****, but lead and people will follow. Give them orders by voice and many will listen. I don't take that role but a friend of mine does, often. His attitude is "if he listens, sweet. If not, it's his ***." He even calls people brother, just to lay it on a little thick. "Hey brother, I need you watching my left flank as we go up, and I'll watch your right, ok?"

We've made squads out of nothing in several games simply because we tried.

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Yes yes and more YES.
Again it's about the IN GAME VoIP use.
If you use it, they will team play!!!

I think the people in Vent/TS/private VoIP are the ones hurting pub team play the most.
They are not in the game mic, they are not sharing the info with the rest of us, and fail to connect to new players in game.

All through BF2/2142 my buddy and I pub server played and used in game VoIP. We had good pub squads most of that time. All you have to do is start working with noobs. They want to learn, they want to be good to, and all they need is a little help getting into the game.
And all you have to do is use the IN GAME VoIP to kick start the team play attitude in others.

If no one uses the mic, no one will use the mic.

Full Frontal Yeti said:

Yes yes and more YES.
Again it's about the IN GAME VoIP use.
If you use it, they will team play!!!

I think the people in Vent/TS/private VoIP are the ones hurting pub team play the most.
They are not in the game mic, they are not sharing the info with the rest of us, and fail to connect to new players in game.

All through BF2/2142 my buddy and I pub server played and used in game VoIP. We had good pub squads most of that time. All you have to do is start working with noobs. They want to learn, they want to be good to, and all they need is a little help getting into the game.
And all you have to do is use the IN GAME VoIP to kick start the team play attitude in others.

If no one uses the mic, no one will use the mic.

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This is so true, its actually too true regarding the private VoIP part, people definitely need to use in-game VoIP more.