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  #81  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:25 AM
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The MP5 shoots 800rpm, as do most 5.56mm assault rifles...They all shoot higher-recoiling cartridges than 8mm Nambu or .380 ACP and are considered highly controllable in full-auto.
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  #82  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:44 AM
luke688 luke688 is offline
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I think there are too many automatics in this expansion full stop if you want to go down the historical realism route, both the numbers of type 100's and BAR's should be reduced imo.
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  #83  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:49 PM
Chosen_1 Chosen_1 is offline
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It turns out the T100 is pretty heavy, to the point that a assault should not be able to go from a dead sprint to sights faster than a rifleman from the shoulder to sights. Also, that would justify lower recoil, so I was wrong on that.
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  #84  
Old 06-20-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Without Qualities View Post
The SMGs should be only for commanders, or maybe 1 per 30 Japanese.


On classic or realism modes.

To compare.. Japanese built 3.4 million type-38 rifles, 3.5 million type-99 rifles and only 24-27 thousand type 100 smg's ..
+1

to compensate and make things more realistic remove flamethrowers from maps where they werent used irl. Also it would be nice if Devs introduced animation when entering sights for aligment of front and rear sight. Like 0.5s delay to perfectly align weapon.
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  #85  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:22 AM
gattocake gattocake is offline
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Wait...the Type 100/44 is even available on Guadalcanal. Now I don't know much about this weapon, but I'm going to assume the name indicates that it was in fact produced in 1944, and thus the Japanese must have used a time machine to go two years into the future to obtain a weapon that did not exist.
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  #86  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:28 AM
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Yes, Realism and Action allow you to use the 1944 variant on Guadalcanal, but it has to be there because those two modes must have unlocks, where as Classic does not and has the 1944 variant disabled, and little things like forcing on the drum mags for the Thompson which was still used at that time.

For me, I'd rather have the Type 100 disabled for the TL role, and decrease the amount of Assault roles on each map to a max of 2. Finally, it would be cool to give Assault roles an option between the 44 or the 40 in Classic mode, on the suitable maps of course. I don't really see this happening soon though, as Classic currently has no weapon which you can customize.
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  #87  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:37 AM
[DH]Chris89 [DH]Chris89 is offline
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For those saying lock the T100 to TL only, that would only make people take the role for the weapon only.

Cut down amount of Assualt troops and only let TL/SLs have a bolt action rifle would help a lot.

Although myself i have found a lot of people dont take assualt on Japanese for some reason, i take it a lot (when dont fancy being rifle) and enjoy the L50 T100 as well.

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  #88  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:53 AM
gattocake gattocake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VietViking View Post
Yes, Realism and Action allow you to use the 1944 variant on Guadalcanal, but it has to be there because those two modes must have unlocks, where as Classic does not and has the 1944 variant disabled, and little things like forcing on the drum mags for the Thompson which was still used at that time.

For me, I'd rather have the Type 100 disabled for the TL role, and decrease the amount of Assault roles on each map to a max of 2. Finally, it would be cool to give Assault roles an option between the 44 or the 40 in Classic mode, on the suitable maps of course. I don't really see this happening soon though, as Classic currently has no weapon which you can customize.
I'd split them so they're not tied to the unlock system, and give them only to TL and one random SL, but maybe I'm just crazy.
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  #89  
Old 06-22-2013, 10:04 AM
gattocake gattocake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DH]Chris89 View Post
For those saying lock the T100 to TL only, that would only make people take the role for the weapon only.
Why cave into them by tweaking the game around their questionable behaviour? There are better ways to deal with this, and besides, if we applied this kind of sidestepping solution to other areas of the game that can be adversely affected by poor player ethics, we wouldn't have much of a game left.
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  #90  
Old 06-22-2013, 12:45 PM
kalle kalle is offline
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It would be pretty nice if SL was split into SL (rifle) and SL (assault). Then it would be easier to balance. If half of the SLs were converted to SL (rifle) you would free up more assault classes, while keeping the amount of smgs the same.

Calling it scandalous is pretty exaggerated, and so is saying the the game does not have asymmetric sides. With no assault classes lots of people would lose interest in playing the Japanese, and the US is already favoured by the players.
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  #91  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:01 PM
AntiFox08 AntiFox08 is offline
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They could add the Type 5 rifle and that might balance it a little. The Type 5 was a Japanese version of the M1-Garand, though it never saw action. If Tripwire wants balance, add that in. Otherwise, keep everything the way it is. It doesn't bother me at all.
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  #92  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:57 PM
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Shamefurr Dispray Shamefurr Dispray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiFox08 View Post
They could add the Type 5 rifle and that might balance it a little. The Type 5 was a Japanese version of the M1-Garand, though it never saw action. If Tripwire wants balance, add that in. Otherwise, keep everything the way it is. It doesn't bother me at all.
Adding MP18s may be a more realistic way of balancing it, as I believe the Japanese bought some after WWI ended. Either that, or add the Experimental Type 2 but only for maps where the SNLF are present (they are the only ones who ever used it).
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  #93  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiFox08 View Post
They could add the Type 5 rifle and that might balance it a little. The Type 5 was a Japanese version of the M1-Garand, though it never saw action. If Tripwire wants balance, add that in. Otherwise, keep everything the way it is. It doesn't bother me at all.
historical accuracy is the primary concern for the devs, so the Type 5 will never be included in any way (unless theres a map involving assaulting a Jap weapons factory on the mainland that happened to have a few Type 5's off the assembelly line....but I digress) balancing will have to come from another form
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  #94  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:34 PM
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I'd like to see how the following class loadout worked in Realism mode (bascially one Nambu Gunner or BAR-man per Squad Leader & less "special" weapons on the battlefield, more emphasis on the Rifleman class). There are still too many Type 100s but at least it equals the number of Tommy Guns available to the US. The loss of SMGs is compensated by an increased number Nambu LMGs and one less US Flamethrower. The Japanese, like the Germans, based their infantry squads around the LMG. As such, the Nambu LMG should really form the base of a Jap Team's firepower, not an overabundance of Type 100s and Knee Mortars.

Japanese Forces:

Rifleman (32 slots):
. Arisaka Type 38 Rifle or Arisaka Type 99 Rifle
. Type 97 Grenade x2

Marksman (2 slots):
. Arisaka Type 99 Sniper Rifle
. Nambu Type 14 Pistol

Machine Gunner (4 slots): (+1 MGer on Japanese assault maps)
. Nambu Type 96 LMG or Nambu Type 99 LMG
. Nambu Type 14 Pistol
. Type 97 Grenade x1

Light Mortar (2 slots):
. Arisaka Type 38 Rifle or Arisaka Type 99 Rifle
. Type 89 Grenade Discharger w/ 6 HE rounds
. Type 91 Frag Grenade x2 (players should be able to launch these via the Type 89)

Squad Leader (4 Slots):

. Arisaka Type 38 Rifle or Arisaka Type 99 Rifle or Nambu Type 100 SMG
. Nambu Type 14 Pistol
. Type 97 Grenade x1
. Type 94 Smoke Candle x1
. Binoculars

Commander (1 Slots):
. Arisaka Type 38 Rifle or Arisaka Type 99 Rifle or Nambu Type 100 SMG
. Nambu Type 14 Pistol
. Type 94 Smoke Candle x2
. Binoculars

American Forces:


Rifleman (32 slots):
. Springfield M1903A1 Rifle or M1 Rifle (Garand not available on Guadalcanal)
. Mk.2 Grenade x2

Marksman (1 slot):
. Springfield M1903A1 Sniper Rifle
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol

Machine Gunner (1 slot): (class not available on Guadalcanal therefore +1 Marksman slot)
. Browning M1919A6 LMG
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol

Automatic Rifleman (4 slots):
. Browning M1918A2 Automatic Rifle
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol
. Mk.2 Frag Grenade x2

Flamethrower (1 slot):
(class shouldn't be available on Guadalcanal & Hanto therefore +1 Auto Rifleman Slot)
. M2 Flamethrower
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol

Squad Leader (4 Slots):
. Thompson M1928A1 SMG or M1 Carbine (replace M1 Carbine w/ Springfield on Guadalcanal) or Winchester M12 Shotgun
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol
. Mk.2 Grenade x1
. M8 Smoke Grenade x1
. Binoculars

Commander (1 Slots):
. Thompson M1928A1 SMG or M1 Carbine (replace M1 Carbine w/ Springfield on Guadalcanal) or Winchester M12 Shotgun
. Colt M1911A1 Pistol
. M8 Smoke Grenade x2
. Binoculars

Last edited by Higgs; 06-22-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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  #95  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:55 PM
gattocake gattocake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs View Post
-snip-
Your proposed loadouts are better than what we have now in every way. Maybe not the ideal solution for the T100 since as you said, 5 is still too many, but definitely something agreeable that can be done easily.
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  #96  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:15 AM
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Unterscharfuhrer Unterscharfuhrer is offline
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Thats just dumb, the biggest part of the japanese team has bolt action rifles, on maps like saipan or iwo jima you clearly can see (if your not blind or just playing allies), that the japanese has a lot less firepower than the americans (thats ok lookin at history and gameplay) but to reduce it even more is stupid and would crash the balancing!
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  #97  
Old 06-23-2013, 06:28 AM
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What about the MP28/II or Model 2 (SNLF only) to replace some of those Type 100s.

Here's a comparison between two Type 100 variants and the Japanese bought MP28.

MP28 would be an additional choice for the Assault class/ SLs and would help reduce Type 100 spam whilst still giving the Japanese close combat power. MP28s were uncommon though.

The Model 2 was given to SNLF troops and so would be an alternative SMG for maps where they are present. It is similar to the Type 100 but uses either 30 or 50 round magazines and can be set by the user to fire at 5 different rpm settings.


Type II/Bullpup


Japanese soldier with MP34 (Austrian version of MP28)


Soldier in the top right is using an MP28.

The Grease Gun (already in the SDK files) and Reising 50 would be suitable Allied alternatives.

Lets see;
MP28 Level 0 - 32 round Snail Magazine or 20 round box magazine?
MP28 Level 25 unlock - 50 round box magazine?
MP28 Level 50 unlock - bayonet?

Type II Level 0 - 30 round Magazine
Type II Level 25 unlock - 50 round magazine
Type II Level 50 unlock - Bayonet?/Select fire?

This would reduce the number of Type 100s and give the Japanese more options. However, reducing the number of SMG slots slightly as well as adding in new SMGs may also help. If needed, the MP28 can be used as another German SMG, but perhaps minus the bayonet unlock, as only the Japanese were so keen to strap bayonets on their guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusDragon View Post
While I don't know how upsetting to the game balance it would be, I'd like to see the assault troops using a Arisaka Type 44 Carbine (short bolt action) with added option of a Fusil M-1908 "Mondragón" once ranked up (auto/semi rifle used in Philippines, China and Burma)
Carbines would be a nice addition for all sides that use them. However, Japan only manufactured 5,000 Mondragons and most were used by Philippine guerrillas. Maybe as an unlock for Hero Rifleman (usually max 3 per server) but idk if it should be ingame.
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Last edited by Shamefurr Dispray; 06-23-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  #98  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder Inc View Post
historical accuracy is the primary concern for the devs
Too much wine?
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  #99  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:16 PM
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At the end of the day, what's the point of replacing one smg with another if it's going perform pretty much the same as the other? There will still be the same number of smg's.

The MP18 & 28 were definitely used in Manchuria, but I'm struggling to find any reference to where they were used during the WWII years or the number used. At least the M-1908 "Mondragón" is confirmed as being present and would not simply be replacing like-for-like from a weapon performance perspective.

That said, maybe we're simply trying too hard to shoehorn other guns into the game... I wonder how bad the game balance would actually be if assault troops had rifles - I mean, is it a "no brainer" that Japanese need this many smg's to balance the game but we don't know because we've never played without them there?
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  #100  
Old 06-23-2013, 01:20 PM
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Shamefurr Dispray Shamefurr Dispray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusDragon View Post
At the end of the day, what's the point of replacing one smg with another if it's going perform pretty much the same as the other? There will still be the same number of smg's.

The MP18 & 28 were definitely used in Manchuria, but I'm struggling to find any reference to where they were used during the WWII years or the number used. At least the M-1908 "Mondragón" is confirmed as being present and would not simply be replacing like-for-like from a weapon performance perspective.

That said, maybe we're simply trying too hard to shoehorn other guns into the game... I wonder how bad the game balance would actually be if assault troops had rifles - I mean, is it a "no brainer" that Japanese need this many smg's to balance the game but we don't know because we've never played without them there?
The combined total of the Mp28s and Type 100s used is bigger than the total of Type 100s used alone. Reducing the amount of SMG slots slightly as well would mean that the Japanese get another (not so good) weapon choice and it the amount of SMGs go down. Less Type 100s = less whining about Type 100s. Mainly Bolt action rifles vs BARs, M1s, Thompsons etc, that probably wouldn't be balanced. Perhaps split the Assault into Elite and normal (normal only gets MP28) as well as giving SLs just the MP28. Makes the Type 100 pretty rare + most Japanese get a worse SMG but it something that is still useful in CQB.
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Last edited by Shamefurr Dispray; 06-23-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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