Grenade range: Why was it increased again?

[REZ]

Dev's why dont you take nades completely out of the game, to make this lot happy. As it is, if they are nerfed anymore, they'll be useless, and I'd rather not have to waste the second it takes to cycle through them in my weapons list... seriously, people wont stop complaining about them, you might as well remove them. It seems people want bullets only.

[EGF_PeeGee]

Grenades, shells and mortar rounds probably accounted for something in the order of 75% of all casualties amongst soldiers; bullets maybe only 10%. Being taken down by a rifle round should actually be quite a rare event. Getting blown up should be far more common.

[[TW]DrGuppy]

Grenades are perfect in Ostfront... IF they behaved like that from ONLY a stopped/standing position. The problem is that there is no advantage to this method so people will naturally strafe back and forth while sprinting/jumping. Keep the accuracy as it is for standing still but as soon as the player starts to sprint, jump, etc. the accuracy should go down.

[EGF_PeeGee]

I've been trying some of this out to get an idea of where we are, so a few comments.

I estimate a pace of normal (running) movement in game is about one metre, so I can measure my throw distance by throwing the grenade and, using 3rd person view, counting my paces to the explosion decal. From a standing position, I can throw a grenade 24 metres. I'm not into CoD style gymnastics, but with a sprint and a jump I can increase that to no more than 30 metres. There doesn't seem any difference between Russian and German grenades in terms of distance.

In real life, I have no trouble at all throwing an object of similar size / weight over those distances. And whether I stand still or take a run-up, I can land my "grenade" within a couple of metres of my target point fairly consistently. Certainly as accurately as I can in game.

There is one issue, though, that I find very strange. Testing in game, I seem to be able to throw the same 24 metres from either standing or prone. I checked this several times because I didn't quite believe it, but it seems to be the case. That has got to be wrong, no way can you throw as far lying on the ground.

BTW, don't tell the wife, but there seems to be a lump of wood and a broken tile on the kitchen roof

[Crescendo]

I don't post here much but I felt compelled to voice my support for this suggestion.

Firstly, I feel that a lot has been said in this thread by some people that is 'diluting' the original post, which is, in my opinion, very well conceived. To get to the point, the main issue here is that in their current form, grenades are much too useful as a first choice and/or 'guaranteed' kill weapon, and are therefore negatively affecting the usefulness of guns and their suppressive abilities.

Case in point is the almost immediate throwing of grenades within ten or twenty seconds of some maps starting (Krasny for example). Another instance would be trying to hold the main street near the tower in Odessa as a German. One can try their best to get behind some sandbags and offer suppressing fire with a rifle or MG, but all the Russians have to do is pop out for a split second and lob a grenade with great distance and accuracy. Ultimately, where is the fun in that? So much for hopefully suppressing the enemy and having a nice gunfight for a change. It's like the excellent blurring feature is just a minor annoyance, one that merely serves to tell you it’s time to press two and prime your explosives.

Overall, this argument feeds into the age-old 'fear of death' scenario, or lack thereof. In the context of grenades, the problem in ROOST is there is no reason to fear anybody unless he is quite a large distance away or a damn good shot (maybe both!). MG firing at you? Quickly look over cover and throw a grenade. Pesky SMGer caught you in the open? Run around erratically dodging his fire and throw a grenade. Rifleman shooting at you from a distance? Break cover, run towards him and jump-throw a primed grenade for a nice airburst or impact detonation! GAH!

In short: sometimes gameplay must trump realism, even if the game concerned is touted as being 'realism-focused.' I can imagine the pro-realism argument is that grenades can be thrown that far in real-life. However, the gameplay counterpoint is that in real-life people actually care if they live or die, and would be unlikely to risk exposure for a long-distance throw. Trade-offs need to be made somewhere.

So, on the whole, I feel that the exceedingly large range of grenades is detracting from the abilities of the firearms, which in turn leads to a lack of satisfying gunfights. And personally, that's what I play this damn game for!

PS. It's late here in Australia, please forgive any grammar and spelling errors. I'm going to bed.

[Divinehammer]

I have to agree here that accuracy should be obscured when not standing still. Also range should adjusted depending on your position prone should not throw to the same distance as standing.

[REZ]

Grenades, shells and mortar rounds probably accounted for something in the order of 75% of all casualties amongst soldiers; bullets maybe only 10%. Being taken down by a rifle round should actually be quite a rare event. Getting blown up should be far more common.

Although I'm not sure about the exact percentages, I agree with this statement. Grenades, shells, and mortars, from what I've read, accounted for most of the casualties.

As most probably know, I think the grenades are fine as is. I can run and throw straight, I dont think thats a problem... but I would agree that running and jump throwing, especially when you are on unsure footing (uneven ground, broken bits of debris, chaos around you), it would be hard to remain pinpoint accurate. But again, grenades dont require you to be pinpoint accurate. I highly doubt you'd miss so bad that you wouldnt be in the 'area' you were trying to hit.

and.... if I'm out on a battlefield, whether thats on the open steppe, or in tight city quarters... I dont care if it's one enemy or three... he can kill you, so yes, I'm keeping my head down and throwing 5 nades if I have them... just to kill that one dude. Of course I'd do that.. I want to live! I'm not gonna say, 'well a firefight would be cool right here... and theres only one enemy, so lets take a peek and see if I can shoot him'. No way Jose, aint gonna happen!

edit = spelling error

[Ron]

Originally Posted by EGF_PeeGee

In real life, I have no trouble at all throwing an object of similar size / weight over those distances. And whether I stand still or take a run-up, I can land my "grenade" within a couple of metres of my target point fairly consistently. Certainly as accurately as I can in game.

There is one issue, though, that I find very strange. Testing in game, I seem to be able to throw the same 24 metres from either standing or prone. I checked this several times because I didn't quite believe it, but it seems to be the case. That has got to be wrong, no way can you throw as far lying on the ground.

BTW, don't tell the wife, but there seems to be a lump of wood and a broken tile on the kitchen roof

Yes quite true also another thing i feel is the main reason why nades are used so regulary is that its so fast to take one of the things out and put your gun on your back wild west hollywood style fast in fact, if they decrease the draw speed on those suckers to realistic levels then it might help.
Also here's something i posted on this topic a while ago:

Here's my idea instead of people just being able to take a nade out really quickly just by scrolling the wheel why not have it so people have to switch to the unarmed state first this would take 1 or 2 sec then in the unarmed state they have to press a take out nade button to get a nade in the hand.
Once you've thrown the nade you switch back to the unarmed state and have to press the take out nade button again, stupid idea i hear you say why not i say we have manual reload on rifles why not manual take out nade it would certainly stop people taking nades out in an unrealistic fashion when lets say an enemy is standing in front of them, this idea would simulate the soldier reaching down to waist to take a nade out, atm when your taking a nade out it feels like he's grabing the nade out of air just off screen lol.

[Juice]

I dont like the idea of reducing grenade range by any more than a small amount. I'll admit I havent tried it, but I assume that I can throw a 2 pound weighted stick quite a good distance, and with minimal practice be fairly accurate. I can sink a large can of soup in a shopping cart from 50 feet about 4/5 times. Not being able to throw grenades as far as I know a grown man can throw one would just be annoying.

I love the idea of changing the accuracy and maybe a bit of the range of your throws based on stance and movement. The only way I can accurately throw something at a jogging strafe to the side is to either slow down or throw sidearm, which reduces the range and accuracy of my throw quite a bit. Laying prone would probably be only slightly more awkward than throwing from standing, since you throw grenades with more of a sweeping overhead hook than a baseball pitch.

And how about reducing the amount of grenades in most kits to 1 rather than taking them out alltogether. It would more or less halve the amount of grenades going around to reduce spam.

[Divinehammer]

Originally Posted by Juice

I dont like the idea of reducing grenade range by any more than a small amount. I'll admit I havent tried it, but I assume that I can throw a 2 pound weighted stick quite a good distance, and with minimal practice be fairly accurate. I can sink a large can of soup in a shopping cart from 50 feet about 4/5 times. Not being able to throw grenades as far as I know a grown man can throw one would just be annoying.

I love the idea of changing the accuracy and maybe a bit of the range of your throws based on stance and movement. The only way I can accurately throw something at a jogging strafe to the side is to either slow down or throw sidearm, which reduces the range and accuracy of my throw quite a bit. Laying prone would probably be only slightly more awkward than throwing from standing, since you throw grenades with more of a sweeping overhead hook than a baseball pitch.

And how about reducing the amount of grenades in most kits to 1 rather than taking them out alltogether. It would more or less halve the amount of grenades going around to reduce spam.

I encourage you to try throwing from prone or standing i guarantee prone is way more awkward and you lose alot of range when you take your legs and hips out of the equation.

[Conscript]

Originally Posted by REZ

Dev's why dont you take nades completely out of the game, to make this lot happy. As it is, if they are nerfed anymore, they'll be useless, and I'd rather not have to waste the second it takes to cycle through them in my weapons list... seriously, people wont stop complaining about them, you might as well remove them. It seems people want bullets only.

Because every attempt at constructive critisicm is obvisouly nothing more but a whinge purely for the sake of it, right? RIGHT?

[REZ]

what's a 'whinge'?

[Conscript]

Courtesy of Dictionary.com
whinge ([FONT=verdana,sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (hwnj, wnj)
intr.v. Chiefly British whinged, whing·ing, whing·es To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

Maybe 'whine' would be better

[REZ]

Whine.. there ya go!


I agree throwing while prone should result in less distance vs. standing or running throws. Accuracy(in any situation), power (already nerfed), should remain unchanged.

Loadout should be up to map designer, and server admin given the chance he/she wants to run a mutator.

[stebbs]

Rules of Engagement in Regards to Grenades:

1. You can only throw one grenade in any one area, if you want to use them both you must go to a different part of the map where people won't mind it as much.

2. You can only throw a grenade if you are against more than one enemy. Grenades are to be used only for 'entrenched' enemies. Killing one single enemy with a whole grenade is just plain rude.

3. You can only throw a grenade if you are sure that someone is occupying that space, if you aren't sure, you cannot throw it.

4. If soldiers are involved in an intense firefight, you must assertain if they would prefer to fight it out with guns before throwing the grenade. Simply raise your hand and ask their preference regarding the matter, enemies must be asked as well, so that it's fair.

5. Remember, this game is about 'gunfights' i.e. deathmatches... if the enemy prefers to fight it out with guns, you cannot throw your grenade, as it would be rude to interfere with their preferences.

6. Remember, completing objectives, and winning the map comes second to preferential play style... after all, no one wants to be called a 'nade-spammer' or 'cap-whore'.

7. If, by chance, your grenade appears to have flown 'too accurately' from a far distance, you MUST apologize, and promise to never let that happen again.



These rules have been sanctioned by S.P.A.M. (Silly Preferences Among Members)

[REZ]

ahahahaaaaa


I love you.

[Conscript]

Thread was going well until then :-/

[Spade]

Originally Posted by EGF_PeeGee

In real life, I have no trouble at all throwing an object of similar size / weight over those distances. And whether I stand still or take a run-up, I can land my "grenade" within a couple of metres of my target point fairly consistently. Certainly as accurately as I can in game.

Sorry to burst your buble, but 'in real life' as in real situation, you can't. I spent 4 years of my life using grenades 'in real life' as in throwing them to places where nasty people were hiding/ shooting at me from with an intention to make them stop - preferably by killing them.

There's so much else to tossing things when you are under fire that most times you just throw things to general direction and hope the best. Then again, I don't remember once throwing one in an open area, all went/ were intended to go into buildings through windows or doors, or any one else throwing one in open area that matter...

[stebbs]

Spade, you mean to tell me that in real life people throw 'random' nades in hopes of killing an enemy whether you see them or not? Man I thought everyone said that wasn't realistic...

[REZ]

Wow, you were in WWII?



Seriously though.. stebbs has good points... funny yes, but thats what all this 'whinging by the whingers' sounds like.. because the nades in game arent broken at all. You all would just prefer them to act a certain way, so your preferred style of play wont be hindered by being blown up!

So true, nice one stebbs... lmao