Weapon Comparisons

[darkfireslide]

This is my first post, but I thought I'd make it good.. maybe? Anyway, I've played RO2 for nearly 300 hours and am honor level 98, and have most of my weapons to at least level 25. As for the title of the post, well, that's what I'm asking about. Even after playing this long I'm having a hard time noticing differences, so I thought maybe someone who's experimented with this can help me see the differences.

I. MN 91/30 vs. Kar98k
Between these two, I think that the MN fires faster and has more maneuverability, whilst the K98 has more power and accuracy. Right or wrong? Your preference?

II. SVT-40 vs. G41 (unscoped, but basically applies to scoped too)
These two are the trickiest of the bunch in my opinion. I think that the SVT fires faster and its magazine lets it get more rounds off faster, but is the G41 more powerful/accurate? On realism it's sososo hard to tell and even trying it I couldn't figure it out. Mine are about the same level so that's not an issue between them. What are the advantages of both? Your preference?

III. DP-28 vs. MG34
I have a better idea on these two. The DP fires more slowly, yet is better at short range because of its sights and is also easier to control (especially at higher levels). Meanwhile, the MG34 fires more rapidly yet has longer ranged sights, which makes it better for suppressing (though at shorter ranges it kills quite efficiently). I understand the MG34 gets higher magazines at higher levels but comparing the base of these two.. Right or Wrong? Your preference?

IV. (last one) F1 grenade vs. M1939 grenade
I know grenades are hard to use, but... I'm thinking that the F1 is bouncier but has a bigger blast radius, while the 1939 is more precise and can be thrown farther. Right or wrong? Your preference?

Don't feel obliged to answer all of these, I know it's a long post. Thanks

[Buzzles]

As this is entirely personal opinion:

1) The bolt-action rifles.

They're pretty much the same in terms of damage and accuracy. I should qualify I use manual bolting, so if you think the MN fires faster, it may well do in auto bolting mode, but both fire faster when it's done manually.

2) Semi-Auto Rifles.

I prefer the SVT. Mostly for the reloads. They should be pretty much identical in terms of damage and accuracy.

3) DP28 vs MG34.

I prefer the DP. Slightly better sights and the visible magazine estimate is very helpful.
The default 50m setting on the sights annoys me greatly.
I suspect I'll prefer the MG34 once I unlock the drum and/or belt for it.

4) Grenades.

Personally, I don't notice any real difference between the two when I'm actually using them as the vast majority of the time I'm throwing them from cover over short range.

[darkfireslide]

Well actually I do use manual bolting lol I feel like the mosin is better, though maybe the level 50 to level 41 difference is what's making it that way? Feh.

See that makes sense but I feel like more shots with the G41 are fatal (providing they're on target).

The sight is beautiful on the DP, yes, and I feel like it's a lot better for killing rather than suppressing, and yes the mag counter is very nice lol

Yeah, I know what you mean. The F1 is definitely bouncier though.

[Cwivey]

Power-wise, I think both the rifles are about the same and same rate of fire. Although I find that I'm more accurate with the Kar98, but that might just be its very sharp triangular sight than any discrepincies between them.

The Semi's feel the same, right up until I start to rapidly fire off the shots, the SVT seems more controled than the G41. And of course, it has the faster reload so it's all round more usefull in closer encounters.

Even with the unlocks on the MG34, the DP28 is my fav gun in the game; accurate, doesn't overheat anywhere near as fast, and the sights are non intrusive. The MG34 just spurts tooo many bullets.

Both grenades do the same damage and have the same sorta range, but the German grenade throws on average an extra five or so metres further than the Russian grenade.

[darkfireslide]

Yeah on the bolts the difference isn't as noticeable. On the semi autos recently though I have realized that many of my G41 shots result in a mortal wound, while the svt seems to be more survivable; nevertheless the difference seems to be academic, since most shots result in instantaneous death anyway. The DP has greatly improved since the game's release, and yes it's a lot better for kills than the MG34 but for suppression it feels like the MG34 is indomitable- for what it's worth, anyhow. As for the grenades I still stand by the F1 being slightly more powerful but both basically have the same specs in the end, I guess.

[Mekhazzio]

Download the SDK and skim the weapon code files if you're interested in seeing the actual weapon stats. Much of what you've come up with here is confirmation bias at work.

There's no ROF or maneuverability differences between the bolts or semis, and while there is a slight accuracy difference (in both cases, in the Russian weapons' favor), it's probably not a detectable difference at the game's usual ranges.

The MGs have a fair number of differences, but it's nothing subtle. The recoil control, ROF and heat buildup differences are obvious at first glance.

All rifle-caliber weapons have exactly the same damage, which is high enough for the actual value of the damage to not matter one bit, because it's well beyond the maximum that the damage model for players will ever allow through.

The grenades are completely identical. Which isn't right, considering that they're very different types of grenades, but it's no doubt an intentional side balancing thing to go with their intentionally puny blast radius.

[Grenator]

I find Kar98's sights are a bit more convenient to use, with Mosin I often switch them to the 200m position to shoot accurately on shorter distances (as I tend to shoot too low with it), while with the German rifle I don't, but I suspect it is very much a personal quirk of mine.

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

The grenades are completely identical. Which isn't right, considering that they're very different types of grenades, but it's no doubt an intentional side balancing thing to go with their intentionally puny blast radius.

I don't know what exact radius is set for them in the game, but they seem to be pretty accurate: beyond 5m any fragment injury is very much a gamble (and increasingly so further, up until 20-30m distance where it is essentially zero) for these kinds of grenades. I'd say, they should give much more suppression (and deafen those nearby), but the damage they cause is fine.

[darkfireslide]

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

All rifle-caliber weapons have exactly the same damage, which is high enough for the actual value of the damage to not matter one bit, because it's well beyond the maximum that the damage model for players will ever allow through.

The grenades are completely identical. Which isn't right, considering that they're very different types of grenades, but it's no doubt an intentional side balancing thing to go with their intentionally puny blast radius.

Well that's more than a little disappointing With that logic there's almost no reason to use the G41 whatsoever (especially considering the SVT's recoil can be eliminated by the muzzle brake at level 50- not including the level benefits), including the sniper model of the rifle (Though its advantage to the SVT is that the iron sights are a lot easier to use; makes sort of an "assault sniper" weapon despite the insanely long reload time, though I imagine the bayo at 50 would be nice). In the end it just must be a matter of personal taste which ones you like.

Also I was wondering if for the DP they ever made a double-stacked magazine.. I mean it would be nice to add into the game just so the DP has a mod because half the fun of leveling guns is getting those mods anyhow.

On that note, I'm just going to ask this.. How should the G41 be used in comparison to the SVT40? Furthermore, which one do you prefer? I like the G41 scoped and the normal SVT40
Also, MP40 or PPSh? Thoughts and tactics for those too

[stern]

Originally Posted by darkfireslide

Also, MP40 or PPSh? Thoughts and tactics for those too

point and click....

[[.STORM]]

Originally Posted by stern

point and click....

Depends on the map, some maps like Fallen Fighters or Pavlovs House have medium range engagements >200 meters, and you can't just point and click, not only is there noticeable bullet drop, but the dispersion accuracy is also quite noticeable, especially on the ppsh.

[Mekhazzio]

The SVT's muzzle brake unlock is completely cosmetic, there's no effect on stats. The reason to use the G41 is to keep from getting team fire directed at your position for firing an SVT. Or, I suppose, if you prefer to top up your weapon over having the whole thing swappable.

The MP40 and PPSh don't really call for different tactics between each other. The former has a bit longer reach due to its better accuracy and lower recoil, while the latter has more raw power with its ROF and magazine size. It's largely trivial, though. Both weapons are just slight variations on the same theme. Very rarely will it matter which one you're carrying except for friend-foe identification purposes.

[darkfireslide]

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

The SVT's muzzle brake unlock is completely cosmetic, there's no effect on stats. The reason to use the G41 is to keep from getting team fire directed at your position for firing an SVT. Or, I suppose, if you prefer to top up your weapon over having the whole thing swappable.

The MP40 and PPSh don't really call for different tactics between each other. The former has a bit longer reach due to its better accuracy and lower recoil, while the latter has more raw power with its ROF and magazine size. It's largely trivial, though. Both weapons are just slight variations on the same theme. Very rarely will it matter which one you're carrying except for friend-foe identification purposes.

Well that's interesting, does it at least look cool? And yeah I could probably open an entire thread about indentifying teammates by uniform and not rifle because for some reason people have a hard time reading a kill feed.. been tked so many times for having the other team's weapon, even playing as marksman.

As for the SMGs I feel the mp40 could almost be an assault rifle (I've gotten 80m+ kills with it before) and it just doesn't have the room clearing power of the PPSh. As a side note, maybe rising storm's weapons will be different in nature?

[Ritterkreuz]

I dislike the M-N's sights, and can't shoot it as well as the K98. It's the bar in the middle. The bar is too thick.

The DP is a slower and more accurate shooter. I can kill enemies with a 2 or 3 round burst. Since I fire less with the DP, I'm more invisible to the enemy.

The MG34 is a faster but less accurate shooter. However, I can kill moving targets better than the DP. I fire more with the MG34.

The PSSH is a disappointing gun- high muzzle climb. I can't hit anything with it. The MP40 is much better in this game.

G41/SVT are around the same. But the SVT reloads faster.

The Soviet pistols are much worse than the German ones.

[LordKhaine]

Originally Posted by Ritterkreuz

The Soviet pistols are much worse than the German ones.

Blimey, I rather disagree there! I for one would favour a TT33 over a P38 or (non-bonused) C96. Really the TT33 and P38 are effectively the same for most intents and purposes, from a pure gameplay perspective.

And I disagree with your view of the PPSH being disappointing. I don't find the muzzle climb to be too bad at all. Rapidly burst firing is very effective with it, even at impressively long distances (150 metres or so). I just wish semi-automatic fire was worth using with it. The recoil animation for semi-automatic just goes all over the place, making it far harder to use than burst firing.

Ah.. this is what I like about RO. The guns aren't just simple stats with X this or Y that, and this gun better than that gun. It's all a bit more organic and down to personal preference.

[Ritterkreuz]

I am using a non-upgraded PPSH. The sight- like the mosin's- don't work well for me. I fire short bursts w/ the PPSH and I still can't hit things as far as the MP40.

The Russian pistols:

The Nagant is just an inferior pistol w/slow reloads. The TT pistol recoils the left in a big way, and this just distorts the sight picture.

The P-38 and the C-96 are clearly better pistols. I, however, don't like how clumsy the C-96 tends to handle. The P-38 is quite accurate with pauses between shots. But the need for that is marginal..

[General Armchair]

That's not my opinion of the pistols at all.

TT33: Beast of a pistol. I'd say its the best vanilla sidearm. It kicks, but it packs a punch.

Nagant revolver: Hits respectably hard. The long reload time is its biggest problem, and that doesn't come into play unless you find yourself up against multiple people simultaneously. You can always interrupt the reload prematurely if you hear someone running your way. I haven't tried the silencer upgrade. I'd take this over the P38 any day of the week.

C96: Hits hard and kicks a lot. I dislike having to empty the magazine prior to reloading. The detachable mag is a huge upgrade, I can only imagine what the stock/fire-selector does to it.

P38: I personally rate the P38 at the bottom of the totem pole. It seems to lack stopping power once you get beyond point blank range. It is fairly accurate and its recoil is easy to control, which is a good thing because I find it most effective to several accurate rounds towards their heart and head.

Originally Posted by Ritterkreuz

The PSSH is a disappointing gun- high muzzle climb. I can't hit anything with it. The MP40 is much better in this game.

It sounds to me like you're using the PPSH wrong. I find that the PPSH works best if you let the weapon do the fighting. You can not spend as much time aiming with the PPSH as you do with the MP40 and semis. Instead of pausing, taking your breath, and making each shot count, just snap the irons generally towards their center of mass, accept that it's 'close enough' and fire off a burst. Recover from the recoil and fire off a second and third burst. Fire off the bursts in the most rapid succession that you can achieve. Remember, each round from the PPSH is relatively inaccurate, the PPSH's main strength is its rate of fire. Often you will find the weapon more effective when you only take the time to 'half-aim'.

If you're stuck shooting across the city block at some guy in a window, don't shoot at that guy. Just shoot at the window in general. Just keep those bursts flying. Your weapon isn't accurate, but neither is his thanks to all that suppressing fire. He needs a clean shot to kill you, you just need to keep throwing bullets into that window until statistics intervenes and gives you a lucky shot. There is a reason we call the PPSH a bullet hose. It is a weapon that sprays bullets, and it is REALLY GOOD at spraying bullets.

A friend of mine describes it like this. With other weapons, even the MP40, you are carefully placing the rounds on target. With the PPSH, you are ripping and tearing like an animal.

Also, nothing blind-fires better than a PPSH

[Mekhazzio]

The TT33 and C96 have 50 damage shots, while the P38 and Nagant have 40. That's the difference between a 2-shot kill and a 3-shot kill. The stronger pistols have higher recoils too, but meh - they're not precision weapons anyway. The full auto C96 is the clear winner among sidearms, as it has, curiously, no stat penalties at all compared to the level 1. It's essentially a small-magazine PPSh (and even uses the same sound effects)

As for the muzzle climb on the PPSh, it's entirely predictable, you can pull the mouse down at a steady rate to compensate for it. That's particularly effective on the AVT, because once you correct its climb, it (oddly) has lower random recoil than any other automatic except the MP40.

[oldsoldier173]

In this arguement the real world must be considered. The German MP-40 fires the 9X19mm parabellum(.35), the PPsH fires the 7.62X25 Tokarev. Both are pistol rounds the 9mm of the MP-40 hits harder and is better ranged than the lighter 7.62(.30) of the PPsH. I have fired both, I prefer the MP40 as expected, but the PPsH and its later varients are fun shooters. Both you aim at the knees and trying to get the controlled three round burst, round numbers 2 or 3 end up center mass hopefully, 'blip firing' we called it.

The pistols same issue. The MN and TT33 fire the 7.62X25, the C96 of the era fired the 7.63X25, and of course the P38 fired the 9X19.

The Soviet rifle cartridge is the 7.62X54R, and the German is the 7.92X57 (8mm). Again the 8mm mauser cartridge hits harder being larger and a heavier projectile. I have both the K98 and the MN 91/30 in my personal collection. The K98 is a tad harder to bolt based on the locking design, but hits harder and is a little more accurate in a snap fire mode based on the length and weight. The 91/30 is easier to bolt and is 'idiot proof'. Both bullets are nickle alloy steel core the 8mm has good penitration of 'cover' and for some reason the 7.62X54R penitrates better even though slower and lighter.

In the game the K98 seems to me to be far more accurate at range but is slower firing again I believe based on the bolting. I love the 91/30 scopped and under 200m it is a deadly beast, and the 91/30 standard is also a accurate beast at the 100-125m range. Neither to me act as the real steel version as the 'kick' of the K98 is not as bad as the real thing, and the longer 91/30 is not as hard to hold on target as the real thing. For a historical note I also own a M-1944 the carbine version of the 91/30. In Vietnam we called them the 'two gooker' one 'gook' to shoot it and one 'gook' to hold him up (gook used as a historical reference here based on the time and circumstance). Firing the full sized 7.62X54R out of a carbine, it is a bruiser, litterly.

[W4lt3r]

Originally Posted by General Armchair

C96: Hits hard and kicks a lot. I dislike having to empty the magazine prior to reloading. The detachable mag is a huge upgrade, I can only imagine what the stock/fire-selector does to it.

Shortest and simplest description of the l50 C96 -
It's a pocket PPSH with even higher rate of fire (about 1200 rpm).
Saved my LMG wielding rear many many times from over-eager Russian assault troops. Heck, some players don't even know that the C96 can become such a monster, so I get called out as a hacker. Then some older RO2 players just want to test the weapon out, some even go as far as teamkilling for it.

The damage on the bullet seems to be about 2 hits to chest to kill or then 4 to legs / arms. For the 20 round mag and high ROF, it's quite nice. Accuracy seems to be not so good at ranges +60m. The reload time on the mag is also quite nice, only couple seconds.

[Panzer Jager '43]

Originally Posted by oldsoldier173

Both bullets are nickle alloy steel core the 8mm has good penitration of 'cover' and for some reason the 7.62X54R penitrates better even though slower and lighter.

I can believe that; the 7.62x54R is a smaller diameter bullet and is actually much faster than the 7.92mm.

In the game the K98 seems to me to be far more accurate at range but is slower firing again I believe based on the bolting. I love the 91/30 scopped and under 200m it is a deadly beast, and the 91/30 standard is also a accurate beast at the 100-125m range.

In the game the MN91/30 rifles are more accurate than the Kar98ks, and the bolt times are the same. However when it comes to the accuracies, they're both shooting sub-MoA, so you won't be able to notice it in the game's combat ranges (of max ~300m.)