July 27th Patch Notes

[ak™]

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

And for God's name: stop all talking about real war. If there was so, you should have seen russian killing innocents, and germans giving chocolate (better PR, I presume).

Right, the Wermacht never committed war crimes nor caused the deaths of over 5 millions Poles and 15 million Soviet civilians. Excellent PR.

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

In the real war, Axis actually had also some advantages, here only Allies have. And Allies keep loosing constantly, around 80% of all ropunds/maps. Why ? Simple: good players prefer to play as Axis. Jeez, IN REAL LIFE all of ya would do the same.

Speak for yourself. I'm sure many of us wouldn't prefer to be the aggressors. I find the thrill killing the occupation quite glorifying.

This anti Russian bigotry is quite sickening. It's a game. Don't use it to promote a political platform or project your insecurities and hatred. It's no longer the cold war.

[Choice]

Originally Posted by Temporary

=> Just because you can doesn't mean you should, a map needs to be balanced because: 1) RO2 is not a simulator 2) this is a multiplayer game.

ps: also, you are actually a designated marksman, not a sniper.

Yes, yes you should... in order to be effective, you need position.

... Sniper.

That is the role...

sniper [ˈsnaɪpə]n (Military / Firearms, Gunnery, Ordnance & Artillery) a rifleman who fires from a concealed place, esp a military marksman who fires from cover usually at long ranges at individual enemy soldiers

Oh look... It is the correct lingo-

Originally Posted by Temporary

=> I haven't seen a single successful role-vote in 200 hours. Just because the system technically allows it, doesn't mean it will work.

So you never get a battlefield commission for doing well?

Chin up... one day.

Originally Posted by Temporary

=> if the job of a sni- designated-marksman was easy, we wouldn't be playing RO2.

=> If you're going to defend your point of view as a "sniper" (read designated marksman), if you don't put enough emphasis on the importance of teamwork, people will assume you don't care about it.

Also, you description of a "nice little nest" sounds a lot like the TF2 2fort sniper balconies.


=> I'm happy to hear that.

It's just that the following sentence: "Half the fun of playing a sniper is finding a nice little nest... and finding the enemy sniper in his first"

Huh.. wtf are you even talking about.

Nothing but ceaseless sarcastic candy filled jibber jabber.

Sniper is the correct terminology.

Oh you think it is easy to hit a moving target at 200+ meters as they dip in and out of sight due to topography?

You think it is easy to get across a 100 meter open field with no cover, then maintain your concealment and position while you kill enemy after enemy, until you run out of ammunition, then go get some more and continue to follow the parallel advance of the rest of your team ... who is only moving up because of you taking out any target that pops their head up, much less decides to set up a MG...

It is not unusual for me to rack up 100 kills when timing graces me with the scoped weapon slot.

How could I have 100 kills and not be doing something related to teamwork...

I protect my team, I enable their advance... far more than your 'buddy' could as he runs with you through the trenches and gets off a quick scope.

Yes I can quick scope too... and no matter how fast I can do it, I cannot do it faster than an SMG, or MKB toting assault member can pull the trigger most of the time.

Just like the Commander really does not belong on the Vangaurd of the front... the SNIPER also needs to have some distance to be effective.

A sniper has no place in the capzone... Unless that cap zone has a advantageous position to fire on approaching enemies.

So back to your just because you can, doesnt mean you should slop--

Just because you CAN advance with the assault crew, and just because you CAN get a quickscope shot off in a hallway... does not mean you should.

- Yes

I know you were being sarcastic... no I was not impressed... and no it does not shield your position on the issue.

So stuff it.

Originally Posted by Temporary

I assumed this part "which means if the commander is 1 second too slow in getting to a radio your team essentially loses the map" was referring to canceling the arty before the capture (thus avoiding the penalization).
Now that you mention it, it seems you were mentioning the time limit of the map instead, or I might be wrong again.

I do not think you read as well as you think you do.

The 1 second is ephemeral... and is dependent on what happens in the battle.

BESIDES.. Why in anyway shape or form would you want to stop artillery support from coming in when your position is under threat??

That is the whole point to the arty support.

Artillery support needs to go back to how it was, because how it is now sucks.

If you are fighting over the Church in Spartanovka, and you are on the Russian side... lets say its 95% yours when your commander calls in arty...

Then a few of your teammates get killed giving them the advantage and they start to quickly acquire this position - WHICH By the way CAN INDEED BE RECAPTURED by your team... It does not get locked out, like others can.

So the first arty strike is in the air, you can hear it but it is too late and the Germans have taken over the position...

The artillery then cancels, and you get a 5 minute penalty.

That is bull****.

As I stated there needs to be a window that allows arty strikes to happen on that position... Just so the Russians can take it back, as it is setup now we can call artillery on our own heads, but not the Germans.

We can block our path to the capzone... but not the Germans.

Its bull****.

If the Church in Spartanovka is a spawn point for the Germans the second they cap B, (Which can be retaken by the Russians)- Then that Spawn Point should be moved back 150 Meters.

This game has a majority of the maps heavily tilted for the Germans, this update just made it even more so...

Every Russian meat grinder attack map has been made even more so, and all of the German meat grinder attack maps have been made even easier for them to be successful.

Especially with this artillery instant protection/5 minute penalty crap.

[Miro]

I can confirm that the blank firing glitch for the AT rifles still happens. This is extremely disappointing as that is a game breaking glitch for the AT class.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

And for God's name: stop all talking about real war. If there was so, you should have seen russian killing innocents, and germans giving chocolate (better PR, I presume).

So, you not only play one side, you are one of those

[Buzzles]

Originally Posted by Choice

... Sniper.

That is the role...

sniper [ˈsnaɪpə]n (Military / Firearms, Gunnery, Ordnance & Artillery) a rifleman who fires from a concealed place, esp a military marksman who fires from cover usually at long ranges at individual enemy soldiers

Oh look... It is the correct lingo-

*Loads up RO2*
*Looks at Profile Page -> Class Progress*

I don't see Sniper as a listed class.
I do see Marksman listed however.

*Loads up server browser*
*Finds and connects to server*

Yes, Marksman is listed, but not Sniper.

I hate to point it out, but no, using Sniper is NOT the correct lingo when referring to RO2.


Now, to make a further point: Snipers are specialist roles in RL. They're Company level assets. Designated Marksmen are squad or platoon level assets.

RO2 definitely focuses on platoon size warfare, you know, with a team being 32 players max.

[Rehmes]

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

In the real war, Axis actually had also some advantages, here only Allies have. And Allies keep loosing constantly, around 80% of all ropunds/maps. Why ? Simple: good players prefer to play as Axis. Jeez, IN REAL LIFE all of ya would do the same.

Only reasson why people who knows have to play stack as axis is because their uniforms is harder to spot then allies. I've played for almost 500 hours of ro2 now and the allies doesn't have any kind of advantage. None do when you reach lvl 50 and get all the weapons and you know how to work around the maps. The only real advantage left as I see is that axis is harder to spot.

I don't know what you mean with "Jeez, REAL LIFE all of ya would do the same." Could you explain that to me grown-up?
Only a true grown-up use words like grown-up, jeez and random capital letters

[P4N1K]

Originally Posted by r5cya

were you talking about this post?
"Grain elevator is honestly the worst map in the game. I seriously hope you've been able to fix it so that we don't have allies constantly sniping the axis side from across the map now. It's ridiculous how unbalanced it is." what was it you think they censored out of it?

I didn't see that they actually let me post that. A few days ago when I checked it wasn't there or I missed it. Never mind then .

[Cwivey]

Please note that sarcasm doesn't transmit well through the internet.


So, what do you guys think of the update's changes to balancing?

I've found that Mamayev plays a little better for the Russians, still a hard defence map, but there are less cases where reinforcments are out by 60+ in the German's favour.

[MeFirst]

So much bull**** in one single page of this thread. I am impressed

I would rather see people sticking to the real toppic. Mamayev is still a map where both teams need to do their tasks correctly but giving the allied more reinforcements helped a bit balancing it.

[Comrade Kaizer]

Just want to remind everyone what the topic of this thread is...

July 27th Patch Notes

Keep the history discussion to our Historical section and let's focus on your opinions (and praises) of the recent changes, please.

Insults and spam will be dealt with appropriately.

[Choice]

Originally Posted by Buzzles

*snipping out the tedious refuse.
I hate to point it out, but no, using Sniper is NOT the correct lingo when referring to RO2.

Sniper IS the correct lingo for the position in anyway shape and form.

Perhaps you miss your teammates avatars saying "SNIPER GET DOWN"

Anyway..

I think I will play in the Sapper role some today...

See if I can use the statchel charges to erase some of these changes.

[Nestor Makhno]

Originally Posted by Comrade Kaizer

Just want to remind everyone what the topic of this thread is...

July 27th Patch Notes

Keep the history discussion to our Historical section and let's focus on your opinions (and praises) of the recent changes, please.

Insults and spam will be dealt with appropriately.

Glad to see that appropriate measures were taken. Though I have to say, some of the people above expressing 'historical' opinions would probably last about 5 seconds on the history forums, up against people that actually know what they are talking about.

We, at the RS team, are very pleased with some of the under-the-bonnet/hood changes that have come along with this patch.

[Sensemann]

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

In the real war, Axis actually had also some advantages, here only Allies have. And Allies keep loosing constantly, around 80% of all ropunds/maps. Why ? Simple: good players prefer to play as Axis. Jeez, IN REAL LIFE all of ya would do the same.

LOL, you must be joking. Red October Factory, Apartments, Commissars, Pavlov's and Gumrak are favoring the Axis side. Let me count: That's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 maps in Axis favor. There are currently what, 11 maps from TWI? Barracks is the most balanced map (though I hate this map). Fallen Fighters is also pretty balanced.

So either, your mathematics is wrong when calculating the 80%, or you simply used over-exxageration. Especially since Allies are NOT losing 80% of the times.

Your definition is also interesting: If you were a good player, why not playing the more challenging side to show some skills?

Originally Posted by VocaTeam

So, Rehmes, though I presume you're just a naive kid, please leve talking to growing-ups.

LOL, that just made my day, kiddo.

Regarding the latest patch:
To be honest, I don't like it. There are huge issues on several maps now.

Pavlov's House: Why are the new protected areas so confusing and senseless? As Axis, you try to flank Zab's House. On the road to the Russian Spawn exit, the left side is okay but DON"T TRY TO CROSS it, otherwise "Warning, Spawn Protected Area". Wth?

Commissar's House: Again, try to flank the enemy as a russian on the far right, at the right quarter of the wide open field "Warning, you are leaving the combat area"... What is up with that? You take the risk of crossing a wide open field to find a nice spot as Russian AT gunner to hit the PZ 4 into the side, but no, since the last patch, TWI decided it's too dangerous to go close to the right flank walls, up the 4-5 stairs. Why is that?

What's the intention of TWI with this? Making the maps even more linear?

Mamayev Kurgan is now better due to the increase in Allied reinforcements.
Grain Elevator is also slightly improved now. It doesn't take Axis a team full of super strong players in order to win it.

To be honest: If this kind of balancing maps keeps on going and if the new maps will also end up as linear as the current pack of maps, I suggest TWI to only focus on content like weapons, uniforms and vehicles. Then leave the mapping to the community.

[Dionysos]

Originally Posted by Sensemann

...
To be honest: If this kind of balancing maps keeps on going and if the new maps will also end up as linear as the current pack of maps, I suggest TWI to only focus on content like weapons, uniforms and vehicles. Then leave the mapping to the community.

This is my main thought with this patch. The maps are already mostly pretty cramped and linear - which is highlighted/contrasted by some of the WIP custom maps - restricting movement even more is NOT fun. It's incredibly silly sometimes, like in the north east of Station where you can't even push up the last meter to the physically barricaded edge of the map because you're "Out of the combat area"...

[Cpt-Praxius]

Originally Posted by Miro

I can confirm that the blank firing glitch for the AT rifles still happens. This is extremely disappointing as that is a game breaking glitch for the AT class.

Yeah I noticed that bug is back just last night.... only happened once though so far.

Originally Posted by Dionysos

This is my main thought with this patch. The maps are already mostly pretty cramped and linear - which is highlighted/contrasted by some of the WIP custom maps - restricting movement even more is NOT fun. It's incredibly silly sometimes, like in the north east of Station where you can't even push up the last meter to the physically barricaded edge of the map because you're "Out of the combat area"...

I haven't checked since the last patch (since I haven't played the map yet since the patch) but I noticed prior to the patch that on Station, there was (I think) the last cap zone in the rail yard where half the cap zone was in a protected area..... is that still the case?

Because if the Russians can stay in the cap zone, while at the same time being in a protected zone where you can't flank & shank them from behind (while still in the cap zone) that's a bit screwed up.

[Temporary]

back on topic (the update) for me too

- Grain elevator seems to be much more fluid now (or I had the chance to get a very good Axis team), however the "Allies reinforcement cut in:" is still silly (in my opinion), especially since the Allies can no longer count on bleeding out the Axis reinforcements on the B capzone.

I think the best way would be dividing the remaining reinforcement by 2 or 3 and increasing the spawn time by 5 seconds. Allies would still have to face a difficult last stand, but it won't be impossible for them.

- Mamayev is still difficult for Allies when facing a good Axis team. I think the additional reinforcements aren't breaking the balance at all (if someone was worrying about that). If Allies keep losing, I think that widening the capzone (to the Allies side) could let them block/slow down a capture more easily.
Many Allies are defending (in terms of holding the line with their weapons) the capzone by occupying the flanks, but don't count as "in the capzone" and lose it the capzone that way.

* So far, on the Axis side I haven't encountered a situation with no cover in a 10 meters radius, which is a good sign.
* At the beginning of the map, if the Axis rush to the right flank (to the downed plane), the Allies can't do much to counter that. A spot/bunker/trench covering that part (and the first-spawn next to it) would force the Axis to provide a covering fire (and/or smoke) before rushing directly toward the trenches/tunnel accesses.

* Spotting a group of 3 Allies, way behind the capzone (to the point of being BEHIND the Axis spawn locations) is very frequent.

Two possible fixes:

a) Make them respawn (teleport + resupply + heal) after the capzone is captured: after 15 seconds if they are behind the new spawns, after 20 seconds if they are on the flanks. A warning message, similar to the "combat area" one, warn them that the enemy took over the area and they should fall back to avoid being captured, with a smaller subtext "Automatic fall back in x seconds" (when x reach 0, fade to black, teleport to new Allies spawn location + heal (if possible) + resupply ammo and a "You escaped from the Axis encirclement !" message)

b) Or, 20 seconds after the capzone is captured, mark them on the map using the recon feature (the small red target on the map + hud) and update their position every 7 seconds, to force to move back near the currently-disputed capzone to stop this), and add an "Enemy near our insertion point, watch out !" warning to the Axis. This system could also be used on other maps to reduce the amount of spawn camping.

In the Frontline Force mod (Half-Life 1), there was 2 to 4 automatic sentries near the spawn exits. They had 2 roles:

1) When enemies were close to the spawn, their embedded radar would detect it, they would then raise up and scan the area.
When raising up, a distinct and easily audible (all around the spawn) "beep-beep" sound was played as all sentries got up, while the sentries were making regular "beep" sound as they were scanning. After 15 seconds, they would went back to sleep mode.
It prevented people from camping near the spawn to ambush the 2-3 possible exits when the current objectives (and the fight around them) were happening miles away.

2) If an enemy was in sight at close range, the sentries would open fire (killing in approximately 3 seconds) and keep firing until mid-range.
The raising-up process (took 2 seconds) allowed enemies who accidentally ran into the spawn to turn back (upon hearing the clear "beep-beep") and run away without getting hurt.

In Red Orchestra 2, it could be an observer (voice + text, no actual model ingame) warning players of enemies very near the spawn (HUD display upon spawning), designating the approximate area where they are on the map and HUD.

If necessary, adding one or two invincible (behind sandbags + metal plate) AIs with a MG near some kind of mini-HQ (to explain why that soldier is not moving on), covering the spawn area (set his engagement range to only cover the necessary area). When reinforcements reach 0, the soldier and his MG disappear.

- Red October Factory: it feels a little better, but the map is still plagued with the "going way past the current capzone to camp and shoot enemies in the back (if possible, 5 meters away from their spawn points)" syndrome.
Also, getting prone behind one of these rails can easily render you almost invincible: the rail covers all your helmet+body, while you can shoot "through" it with no problem (it's the same glitch used by MGs: the body is fully covered below while the arms are holding the MG up above, it looks like the soldier has broken wrists).

- Station: there is less MG spraying the Axis first spawn exit, but there's still a few combat-area problems: as example, the Allies can camp behind the downed brown T34 on the far left side (when going from the Axis spawn to the station), while the Axis can't use the foliages/bushes (nor climb behind the wooden barrier) on the same far left side to clear the downed T34 spot properly.
Later in the game, when the spawn locations move: when Axis spawn right behind or next to (left side) the station building, Allies can still be in the nearby trench on the left or in the very first room of the station building and shoot the spawned.

- Commissars House: the B capzone seemed to be easier to capture for the Allies. The C capzone remained a challenge though (but it was balanced). As an Allies, I mostly played on the right flank, then as the tank, so I can't really give much details.
The thing is, I didn't had to move/drive there to clear the place and stand there to see the capzone being captured, while the last time I played this map, even by staying myself in the capzone (with the tank) and clearing up the enemies with HE shells, my teammates were struggling to just enter and sit inside the capzone while I was doing all the killing job.

The most important point of my feedback is: We all need to play these maps more before judging them as correct/incorrect.

A few bugs I encountered:

a) minor visual bug: dying with your satchel cooked (armed and prepared to be launched) in your hand will result in seeing all satchel-objectives glowing yellow until the end of the map. Changing your class won't break this bug. If only this gentle yellow glow would always be activated for Engineers...

b) when a tank-crew is killed, the tank might not be able to fire a shell, despite having all the necessary crew in place and not having a crew moving from one seat to another (and a perfect canon/turret traverse).
The last time it happened, in a T34 the MG gunner died, I still had my driver, loader and commander/gunner.
- As a commander/gunner, I could still move the canon, change shell type and order my driver to move (or switch to it instantly to move the tank myself).
- The canon and the turret were both perfectly fine on the tank icon and no message said the canon or turret were damaged.
- Switching between the driver and the commander/gunner was instantaneous and no crew moved to take the seat of the deceased MG-gunner. Switching seats didn't fixed the inability to fire, only respawning did.

c) Some windows (without a glass window)(I forgot which maps still had these problems) will block grenades/satchels in the air while they let the visibility and the bullets go through. Like if some magical power were preventing explosives from entering the room.

d) The server I was playing on last night had serious latency issues, everyone had 998 ms ping for 30 seconds every 2 minutes. It could be the server's fault, a memory leak, or a network issue, I really don't know.

...

ps: Please disable autokick for TK made by an Engineer with a Satchel when the explosion triggered a satchel objective (hedgehog, door, wall-breaching). Keep the negative team points, but remove the auto-kick after 3 TKs.

Griefers will have a hard time:
- getting the Engineer class
- finding a satchel objective
- waiting for people to get near it
- get people to stay there
=> at worst, they'll do 2-3 TKs while it will very likely (clearing up the obstacles) help their team.

There is no reason to not disable the autokick for satchel objectives TKs (beside the additional coding ).

[kwstas]

Nice! Hopefully it'll feel nice and polished now.

[mowskwoz]

Thanks for the patch. I appreciate the continued support you're giving this game and I know many things are in the works. Although, for me, without some new content, I've lost a lot of interest in the game.

I look forward to what you're doing and hope to see some new maps soon.

[Miro]

Originally Posted by Temporary

b) when a tank-crew is killed, the tank might not be able to fire a shell, despite having all the necessary crew in place and not having a crew moving from one seat to another (and a perfect canon/turret traverse).
The last time it happened, in a T34 the MG gunner died, I still had my driver, loader and commander/gunner.
- As a commander/gunner, I could still move the canon, change shell type and order my driver to move (or switch to it instantly to move the tank myself).
- The canon and the turret were both perfectly fine on the tank icon and no message said the canon or turret were damaged.
- Switching between the driver and the commander/gunner was instantaneous and no crew moved to take the seat of the deceased MG-gunner. Switching seats didn't fixed the inability to fire, only respawning did.

This is not a new bug, and it's disappointing that it is still around. It's also one of the main reasons why I don't bother with tanks anymore. At close range it's very easy for one tank to kill the gunner of an enemy tank. If your tank wasn't destroyed then you will automatically respawn in the gunner seat. The turret will move fine and I think the machine gun works too, but when you try to fire your main gun there's nothing. By that time you usually are greeted with another shell from the enemy tank and you once again respawn as the gunner (as long as your tank wasn't destroyed) but the main gun is still useless.

Another bug, which I already seen happen since the update, is the tanks getting stuck on minor terrain obstacles. By minor I mean something like a downed telephone pole or a half buried fence. The glitch is as follows, your tank gets stuck, you manage to get unstuck and move a little, and then the game teleports you back to the spot where you were stuck. At first I thought this might just be happening to me, but I have since watched it happened to enemy tanks. I was playing as an AT soldier and saw an enemy tank in a poor spot where it was practically useless, but I also did not have a good shot so I did not bother shooting it and wasting the little precious ammo I had left. Shortly, the tank started moving back and I prepared to shoot it only to see the tank zap right back to the spot where it was stuck. At that point I was convinced that this indeed is a glitch that can happen to anyone.

But wait, there's more. There's another glitch that I cannot confirm if it happens to others, but it surely happened a lot to me and it's extremely annoying. This glitch involves the gunner's sights, and in short they start to vibrate. I thought this might be due to the tank stopping and the suspension swaying the tank, but no. Even when perfectly still sometimes my sights would begin to sway up and down. The typical solution is to move back a bit rearwards or forwards, but when an enemy tank appears right in front of you and you can't take a shot because your sights keep swaying the consequence was usually my tank being destroyed. If not that, then the enemy tank would kill me, as the gunner, and I would respawn unable to use the main gun. As you see, all these glitches can stack together to provide a truly frustrating gaming experience.

That isn't to say that the AT role, which I now choose instead of tanks, is much better as there is the blank firing glitch I mentioned earlier. At this point I would expect glitches like this to be long gone, but yet they persist.

[Ducky]

Since when is this the bug report section?

I will repeat what Comrade Kaiser clearly said (for those that missed it)

Originally Posted by Comrade Kaizer

Just want to remind everyone what the topic of this thread is...

July 27th Patch Notes

Keep the history discussion to our Historical section and let's focus on your opinions (and praises) of the recent changes, please.

Insults and spam will be dealt with appropriately.

Bug reports should go to the bug reports section. In here it's just spam.