Hardcore Realism Suggestions Package and Proposal, to Tripwire, modders and community

[Sarkis.]

Originally Posted by Neuromante

Well, as I understand the objective of the gamemode would be a more realistic and tactical approach to the game. If this is the case, a preparation time would be a must have, allowing for orders to be issued, squads to be formed etc. It's very much like this in the Project Reality mod for BF2 and believe me, it works. What are two minutes of actual preparation if you're going to play for an hour or so anyway?

OK I like the sound of that

That should be done for all classes, showing the amount of available slots and the amount of assigned preferences next to it. Of course you need some form of prep time to do this, I don't see it working out in game.

Well not all classes, rifleman will always be free

Maybe the preference could "stay" after the game begins, and even if you don't get the class at first you could be assigned later when the player leaves the game, or be swapped with someone who wishes to get your class instead.

Also like the sound of that

The point is not that vets should be given an ulterior advantage. The thing is that it would give them a better chance at securing assets important for the team, while still allowing people with slow machines to have a chance at playing with a highly popular class. If guys with the most experience are "directing the game" everyone has more fun. If I recall correctly this is the way it used to work in the game America's Army (not so sure, probably had more to do with the round score, it was a long time ago when I last played it ) and it worked quite well.

If commanders and NCO's are given the same tools as Americas Army commanders had. That will occur naturaly. What I could give as an incentive for Experienced players to pick commanding roles was the longer spawn time

Of course, on top of that there is the progression aspect which will keep people playing, and playing to win, to get more points, to advance in rank and so on. It basically gives a real incentive to play the game the way it's supposed to be played, and I honestly don't mind some kind of progression on top of a solid experience, not as a substitute of such.

Player progression, points, and rank and level that apply to the other modes of the game.. realism and action, were not taken away. Inside Authentic none of those apply, like in classic, except of hero uniforms as of yet. But that would be in the end up to Tripwire to judge. We have honesly not given too much care for points

Good suggestions, will consider, and try and fit them the best I can, and that generally requires a ton of brain storming

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

Maximum zoom is now set at 5.0x

Spoiler!

• More Realistic and controllable zoom ®
Full unrestricted realism mode zoom capability at all times. Completely unrelated to controlled breath, supression or movement. Zoom level increased from original realism mode zoom. 2.3x to about 5.0x. Bear in mind that I am also suggesting more unpredictable base sway and much less controlled breath sway, stamina would also take longer to regenerate. So seeing isn't necessarily killing anymore. V adds zoom, F unzooms
(see Special suggestion)

Spoiler!

• New Proposed System of Zoom and Free Head Movement
Implementation of Free Head Movement, à la ARMA II. It would require major changes in the default control binds, but after that, everyone can configure their own. So it goes: V and B rose commands are moved one key to the right taking respectively B and N. The Commander Force Respawn can safely be assigned somewhere else e.g. numerical keyboard Num 5 or something. M for map is preserved. The Jump/Mantle function can safely be moved to Left Alt, as it's not an all time need to be jumping. And the original Left Alt, that was the default prone key, is placed at the Z key. To do that, the Spotting Function has to go somewhere else, but since is not a vital function, perhaps moved to the X, currently a far from useful change squad function that is already the F2 key. Shift becomes walk speed/hold breath, but not zoom anymore. To sprint, tap W twice: 2xW. The F key, the default Orders Widget, is moved to G, and the default grenade throw, simply dissapears. In the newly freed V and F keys, in strategic positions, we place our Zoom Increment functions, V increments zoom, F decrements, additionally it should be possible to configure toggle or hold, and even more, double tapping V should also toggle zoom if one is not using the incremental system. This will allow easy control of zoom at all times, be it at idle, sprinting or jogging, since it uses our thumb and index finger. In the newly freed Spacebar key, also in a strategic position, we place our Free Head Movement Function, that will also be able to be pressed freely at anytime not disturbing any other command, together with V, since the thumb can reach and press both keys at the same time or individually, additionally double tapping space bar should toggle free head movement. With this change, theoretically, we could freely control our heads and zoom capability while performing all of the other commands with no loss!



This system has been combat tested and passed it's baptism of fire, in RO2 and ARMA 2, functioning better than mouse buttons for not disturbing ones aim when pressing a mouse button

The way in which players will zoom is optional, they can either zoom like currently it happens, or take it in stages (e.g. 1x Zoom, presses V to 2x Zoom, again for 3x and so on) The number of stages should also be up to the player as well as each amount wanted. All that will require new interface in the menu

After much consideration has this number been set. And I mean much. Days of discussion with people, exchange of arguments, points of view regarding gameplay, and many other relevant points, constant reading of the forums. Also some research and real life observations compared to what the game can produce at it's finest settings, and even over that. Also taking in consideration the current state of monitor technology, and what would and would not be considerable as a cheat for people with better monitors to allow us mortals with 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 to see things properly at distant ranges ( over 300m ) or closer with a lot of visual clutter. That number is not a holy grail of zooming in FPS or something like that. Is just what feels good for RO2, without going any further to replicate human view in the game. That would be a person with 20/20 view seeing other people with their full bodies visible and no visual clutter what so ever at up to 600 meters with a good background highlighting those people. With the intent of making soldiers barely visible in game at those ranges. Instead of what they would currently look like with 2.3 zoom: Mostly Subpixels.

That number can still go up or down, however is unlikely to go up. Unless more evidence and good arguments can be brought foward.

I am not trying to impose this amount of zoom to no one, much less in current modes of RO2.

Its is just a number to fulfill a need for a better zoom amount for my suggested game mode, and I also did not get to that number alone so is perfectly fair.

Now how 5.0x Zoom looks like without the full rendering of the scene:

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

[ross]

Still not happy to go above 3.5

[Sarkis.]

edited above with a pic of 3.5x

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• Ammo differentiation
PPSh's 7.62x25mm Tokarev rounds differentiated from 9x19mm

They are the same bullet in game

[Mekhazzio]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

• Ammo differentiation
PPSh's 7.62x25mm Tokarev rounds differentiated from 9x19mm

They are the same bullet in game

Eh? The damage values on players is the same, but they've got different muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient and material penetration values.

[Sarkis.]

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

Eh? The damage values on players is the same, but they've got different muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient and material penetration values.

Suggestion taken down then, since it is already in game

[Sarkis.]

''Keep dreaming, keep creating, keep beleiving, keep spreading the word, keep it real, keep it tight, fight consensus, rewrite rules, HOOAH ?!'' by Proud_God

-Thanks man. Hooah!




The plans, to John Gibson a.k.a. Ramm Jaeger. He shall receive it in PM form

Simplified Authentic Mode
Cherry picked sensibly from the original post, to provide Tripwire with a easy to make mode suggestion, and to hopefully give our Red Orchestra community a very nice Christmas Present

Spoiler!

GAME MODE RULES - AUTHENTIC
NOTICE
Vanilla RO2 game type rules (Territory,Countdown,Firefight) still are the same. This only changes the game mode rules (Action,Realism,Classic)

• No Class Leveling bonus, Weapon Leveling bonus or Hero nearby bonuses
Everyone plays with class and weapon leveling bonus LVL 0. Except the hero uniform for people who have achieved hero level in their class

• Tank Spawn This is the only change to game type rules introduced by Authentic Mode
Tank spawn untied from waves. Tanks take 60 seconds to respawn, in countdown timer once killed form. Countdown timer should be tied to the class and not the player. Other player picking that class of a tank recently destroyed will not reset that timer, and hence will not allow immediate spawn. If there is another tank commander class available, the game will interpret and change the timer for that of the other tank class that is not being currently used. Territory maps only

• No spawn on Squad Leaders, or Machine Gunners

• Tactical View
Pressing Tactical View brings up the classic mode Compass instead of Radar/Map. Capping an Objective, and Objective being capped or lost, using a fixed Machinegun or Respawning do not force in the Tactical View. Squad Leader Icon not visible, addition of an Ammobox Icon. Double Tapping T toggles the tactical view

• HUD
Friendly Player Names only visible when bringing up the Tactical View. Peripheral Indicators off or improved so they can possibly be used. Made less obvious, and not show above a certain distance/size, not differentiate friend from foe, not indicate players that are moving at speed bellow walking speed. I didn't have to mention but: No Crosshairs

• No in-game promotions, stealing other player's class

• Artillery
Play with Artillery on or off. Made a Server Optional, just like Tanks are

WEAPONS RULES - AUTHENTIC

• No experimental/undocumented/irrelevant weapons and equipments during The Battle of Stalingrad
Namely: MKb42, AVT40, MP40/II, silenced M1985, MG34 with PT34 saddledrum, G41 with ZF4 scope, M712 Schnellfeuer, SVT40 6x PU scope

• Tank main gun ammo type change
Occurring time between changing AP to HE, accounting the time to discharge the unintended round from the gun and reload the other. I.e. press ''6'' than ''left click'' starts the operation, discharged round is preserved

• G41 Sniper
View distance from the scope increased back again, not all the way to where it was pre patch, but almost, since its original bug was corrected

• Weapon handling, reload times, sway
Much of which the Realism mode already has. General sway be a little bit more shaky and unpredictable (à la ARMA II) Improved PPSh41 semiauto fire animation, made the same as full auto

• Realistic recoil
Revision of upwards recoil of all weapons in game, specially Submachine Guns and Machine Guns, braced on surface and on bipod. Upwards Recoil should be minimal. Realistic PPSh41 muzzle climb, meaning almost none, since it had a muzzle brake. Papasha's upward recoil in action mode feels just right

• Weapon cleanliness level made optional to player
E.g. Mosin Nagant with upgrade level 1 (bayonetless) and cleanliness level 3, plus other cosmetics like K98 winter trigger guard and sight hood, german scope reticles, and SVT receiver top cover, and other remodelings

Making the weapons look like this:

Spoiler!

Zielsechs Scope

Bayonetless Nagant PEM Scope with proper turret modeling and color, the PE also needs modeling

White bolt SVT


OR


Bayonetless

Bayonetless, with no sight hood, with no winter trigger guard

• Machine Gunner hip firing stance
Machine Gun constantly stays at lowered position unable to fire, the same way AT rifles are by default or when directly facing a wall. When player presses the command, à la ROOST, the Machine Gun quickly raises, drains a small constant amount of arms endurance(yellow section), and hence stamina, and limits player to a slightly slower jog speed. Aiming around should have the same molasses feel of HMGs, but less somewhat. The specific bind should be up to the player. The recoil pulls the weapon a lot more the right side. Beltfed MG34 unable to move in hipfire stance until belt has a least 60 rounds. DP-28 for being lighter drains less arms endurance and raises slightly quicker

• Heavy Machine Gun ammo limit, and destroyable barrels
Can't shoot indefinitely without heat destroying barrel, ammo eventually ends, i.e. 500 rounds or so, resupplyable as LMGs already are in game. Destroyable by satchel or grenade as a suggestion. The same goes for coaxial and paraxial machinegun barrels of tanks. But still, the barrel could resist more rounds being fired before it was lost, red glowing barrels and such, irremovable

• Empty weapons should only sound ''click'' one time when you fire. Rise of Flight did it

• Head shot metallic "ping" sound greatly decreased

• Sniper rifles' third person sound made the same as their unscoped counterparts
Firing a sniper rifle in RO2 always gives away the sniper's general position no matter how many other rifles are firing all across the map

• More Realistic Anti Tank grenades and satchels
HHL 3kg AT grenade Functions as a Magnetic mine, satchel coding (sticky and timed), rather than an impact-fused AT grenade. Stolen from Ross. Satchels in the other hand, lose stickiness but gain a more powerful blast. 1 HHL will allways one hit kill a tank, RPG-40 won't damage Panzer IV

CAPABILITIES RULES - AUTHENTIC

• More Realistic character movement, speed, and specially inertia
Realism Mode's speeds. Strafing jog, pressing A or D, made somewhat slower than going foward, its acceleration also beeing slower. More expressive Inertia and Emcumbrance effects. Jogging costs a very small constant amount of stamina. Player rotation obeying to a maximum angular speed

• Stamina bar
Four times harder to deplete, eight times harder to refill. All stances should only regenerate stamina as fast as the standing stance. Low stamina introduces some blurred vision à la ARMA II

• Improved Arms Endurance sway and controlled breath
Arms endurance sway, extra sway that happens over prolonged Iron Sights time, and controlled breath, both made to have own invisible stamina bar. So as to prevent permanent controlled breathing aim, that currently plagues the game. Controlling breath should only reduce a small fraction of the occurring sway, somewhere between 20 to 30%. Arms endurance bar should also be tied to the stamina bar, always affecting it, and it should regenerate again when supporting a weapon. Arms endurance sway should be dependent on weapon weight. Controlled Breath maximum lasting time should be related to Stamina Bar
To clarify: Currently hold breath and that extra sway can easily be reset by quickly going out and into iron sights again, controlled breath is already tied to stamina

• Stances
Changing stance and mantling cost some little speck of stamina, take more time, and greatly disturb aim during the stance transition, even BF3 has something in that sense, so as to not be able to pop up and down quickly by pressing C repeatedly, or jump and still employ perfectly aimed fire. Performing a full turn while prone be much slower, crawling cost stamina and force out of Iron Sights, except for LMGs that already have their proper animation, but still, walking speed crawling should not allow ability to fire any gun. Leaning at any stance considerably increases recoil and sway, and trows the aim off a little

• Walking Speed Button
Option already exists in ROinput.ini, and should be brought to the controls menu

• Free Aim
Free Aim remains the same, but when out of Iron Sights the weapons will always slowly tend back to the center after having floated away. In Iron Sights that will not take place

• Iron Sights Breathing sound made more quiet

• More realistic viewing with Iron Sights
Weapons that make use of Iron Sights, i.e. All except sniper rifles, should never fully align the rear sight with the front sight. It should be wobbling infinitely in a very small radius, also in random fashion, just enough to allow our real life brains see the perfect alignment take place and record that as the intended point of aim, just like it happens when currently walking while in iron sights. Resting the gun would decrease that effect considerably, but not make it go away

Spoiler!

• Realistic suppression effects, sounds
No Suppression Bar or its current inherent effects like blurred vision. Suppression effects should be tied to the already existing Stamina Bar and have it's inherent effects only, and should only take away about 30% of the Stamina Bar. Tank proximity does not suppress player, getting shot at still snaps the player's aim, but not for every shot that goes by or as much, no color fading, tinnitus, going partially deaf effect more sensible to explosions, even louder bullet cracks, whizzes and explosions and gunfire and tank main gun fire. Every passing supersonic round delivers a loud crack.

• More Realistic and controllable zoom
Full unrestricted realism mode zoom capability at all times. Completely unrelated to controlled breath, supression or movement. Zoom level increased from original realism mode zoom. 2.3x to about 5.0x. Bear in mind that I am also suggesting more unpredictable base sway and much less controlled breath sway, stamina would also take longer to regenerate. So seeing isn't necessarily killing anymore. V adds zoom, F unzooms. The first person arms and weapon should zoom at the same rate as the rest of the scene
(see Special suggestion)

AUTHENTIC LOADOUT - AUTHENTIC

Spoiler!

Weapon Levels, (1,2,3) that are part of the Loadout are freely choosable
Weapon clealingless level (1,2,3) also freely choosable
Sniper rifles have no bayonets attached
Original Marksman class Renamed Sniper. German Team has 2 Marksmen and only one Sniper
German Team has twice the number of grenades for the M1939 being cheaper and less lethal

• Each class has Special Rare Weapons
Each Special Weapon has a probability of being awarded through the promotion system before each player spawn. Once awarded, the weapon will appear in the weapons menu for the players choosing at any time during the match. But he will be only able to use it in one life, once he does, and in his next life he will spawn with his normal, old, non special weapon selection. The same player can get lucky many times during a match, and also multiple players at the same time. Awards can stack on the menu e.g. you have 2 MG42s

• Slot availability scales down with less players on server like the following:

Spoiler!

Spartanovka as example

1-17 players...........vanilla....authentic

ASSAULT......................1............3
RIFLEMAN....................16...........∞
ELITE RIFLEMAN.............0............0
MACHINE GUNNER...........1............1
SNIPER.........................1............1
SQUAD LEADER...............2............2
COMMANDER..................1............1

18-33 players..........vanilla....authentic

ASSAULT......................2............4
RIFLEMAN....................22...........∞
ELITE RIFLEMAN.............1............0
MACHINE GUNNER...........2............2
SNIPER.........................1............1
SQUAD LEADER...............3............2
COMMANDER..................1............1

34-59 players...........vanilla....authentic

ASSAULT......................3............5
RIFLEMAN....................27...........∞
ELITE RIFLEMAN.............2............0
MACHINE GUNNER...........4............3
SNIPER.........................1............1
SQUAD LEADER...............4............3
COMMANDER..................1............1

60-64 players...........vanilla....authentic

ASSAULT......................3............6
RIFLEMAN....................27...........∞
ELITE RIFLEMAN.............2............0
MACHINE GUNNER...........4............3
SNIPER.........................2............2
SQUAD LEADER...............4............3
COMMANDER..................1............1

Germans have one less sniper

Authentic adds 2 new marksmen slots to the germans: 1 with low player numbers and the second unlocks with 34 players in server

• Underlined weapons are not yet in game
Some perhaps never will, but they should





32 PLAYERS

6x ASSAULT
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . PPSh41*
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 03% PPSh41* with 35 rounds box magazine, 06% PPD40, 10% MP40*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2x F1 Grenade

∞ RIFLEMAN
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mosin Nagant LVL3
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x F1 Grenade

3x MACHINE GUNNER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . DP-28 LVL3
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . M1895 LVL1, TT33 LVL3
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 06% DT-29, 06% MG34*** LVL3
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs

2x SNIPER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Scoped Mosin Nagant PEM**
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . M1895 LVL1, TT33 LVL3
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 06% Scoped SVT40 LVL1, 06% Scoped Mosin Nagant PE**
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs

2x ANTI-TANK SOLDIER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . PTRS-1941
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x RPG-40 AT grenade
1 not 3 kgs

1x ENGINEER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mosin Nagant M38
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 15% PPSh41*, 10% MP40*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x 3kg Satchel

3x SQUAD LEADER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mosin Nagant LVL3, Mosin Nagant M38, SVT40 LVL3
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 15% PPSh41*, 10% MP40*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x F1 Grenade, 1x RDG-1 Smoke grenade, Binocs, optional СШ-40 Steel helmet

1x COMMANDER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . PPSh41*
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . TT33 LVL3, M1895 LVL1
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs, optional СШ-40 Steel helmet

___________________________________________




32 PLAYERS

6x ASSAULT
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . MP40*
Special Weapon. . . . . . . . . . .05% MP41, 05% MP38, 30% PPSh41*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4x M1939 Grenade

∞ RIFLEMAN
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mauser Kar98k LVL3
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2x M1939 Grenade

3x MACHINE GUNNER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . MG34***
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . P38 LVL3, Luger
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 06% DP-28 LVL3, 03% MG42 early variant
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs

2x MARKSMAN
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mauser Kar98k ZF41 scope

1x SNIPER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Scoped Mauser Kar98k LVL1
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . P38 LVL3, Luger
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 02% Scoped G41 LVL1, 12% Scoped Mauser Kar98k LVL2
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs

2x ANTI-TANK RIFLEMAN
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . PzB-784(r)
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x HHL 3kg AT grenade

1x ENGINEER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mauser Kar98k LVL3
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 10% MP40*, 15% PPSh41*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1x 3kg Satchel

3x SQUAD LEADER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . Mauser Kar98k LVL3, SIG.259(r) LVL3
Special Weapon . . . . . . . . . . 05% G41 LVL3, 10% MP40*, 15% PPSh41*
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2x M1939 Grenade, 1x NG-39 Smoke grenade, Binocs

1x COMMANDER
Main Weapon. . . . . . . . . . . . MP40*
Secondary Weapon. . . . . . . . P38 LVL3, C96 LVL1, Luger
Equipment. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Binocs, optional M1942 Stahlhelm

* PPSh 41 Selective Fire and Drum Magazine version, MP40 LVL1
** Scoped Mosin Nagant with PE or PEM scope available, no bayonet
*** MG34 beltdrum LVL1 and 250 rounds belt LVL3. MG34 LVL 2 would be a beltfed version with 100 round belt

SPECIAL SUGGESTIONS

• New Proposed System of Zoom and Free Head Movement
Implementation of Free Head Movement, à la ARMA II. It would require major changes in the default control binds, but after that, everyone can configure their own. So it goes: V and B rose commands are moved one key to the right taking respectively B and N. The Commander Force Respawn can safely be assigned somewhere else e.g. numerical keyboard Num 5 or something. M for map is preserved. The Jump/Mantle function can safely be moved to Left Alt, as it's not an all time need to be jumping. And the original Left Alt, that was the default prone key, is placed at the Z key. To do that, the Spotting Function has to go somewhere else, but since is not a vital function, perhaps moved to the X, currently a far from useful change squad function that is already the F2 key. Shift becomes walk speed/hold breath, but not zoom anymore. To sprint, tap W twice: 2xW. The F key, the default Orders Widget, is moved to G, and the default grenade throw, simply dissapears. In the newly freed V and F keys, in strategic positions, we place our Zoom Increment functions, V increments zoom, F decrements, additionally it should be possible to configure toggle or hold, and even more, double tapping V should also toggle zoom if one is not using the incremental system. This will allow easy control of zoom at all times, be it at idle, sprinting or jogging, since it uses our thumb and index finger. In the newly freed Spacebar key, also in a strategic position, we place our Free Head Movement Function, that will also be able to be pressed freely at anytime not disturbing any other command, together with V, since the thumb can reach and press both keys at the same time or individually, additionally double tapping space bar should toggle free head movement. With this change, theoretically, we could freely control our heads and zoom capability while performing all of the other commands with no loss!



This system has been combat tested and passed it's baptism of fire, in RO2 and ARMA 2, functioning better than mouse buttons for not disturbing ones aim when pressing a mouse button

The way in which players will zoom is optional, they can either zoom like currently it happens, or take it in stages (e.g. 1x Zoom, presses V to 2x Zoom, again for 3x and so on) The number of stages should also be up to the player as well as each amount wanted. All that will require new interface in the menu

• ''Optional IS Zoom''
Iron Sights Zoom amount that is controllable in the ROGame.ini. be brought back to the main menu. Additionally it should consider all weapons, and the sniper rifle having it's own slider or using the same values set in the rifle's slider. The sliders could also have numbers, and that also reminds me, the slider for sensitivities should also have numbers

• ''Tank Fly by Wire''
Current Tank Turrets have limits in regards to max rate of turn and gun rate of elevation, but still feel like controlling a M1A1 tank turret with all sorts of stabilizers and auto bear on target, for they are mouse controlled. Hence, they should have a ''computer'', essentially a code, that interprets our inputs and it self fly the turret mimicking a clunky WW2 tank turret. Having limits to how responsive its movement can be, how quick it can stop, change direction of turn and pitch, accelerate to max rate of turn and pitch, and the pitch should be specially stiff, in all senses Turret Inertia, providing a more realistic tank experience. Not requiring WASD controls for such, that are also far from realistic. The game already has this system somewhat, it just needs fine tuning. Also removal of the small white crosshairs. Is the grass in Gumrak intended ?

• Positional 3D VOIP
Discussed to Death, if possible would be of great value

• The controls menu from ARMA 2 should just be copied already!

I'm sure John has many other imperial matters to tend to, but I hope he understands that giving his take on this would also make the Emperor proud

Long Live the Empire!

[Bluehawk]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

Suggestion taken down then, since it is already in game

If they have different velocities and calibres, they shouldn't do the same damage.

[Mekhazzio]

Originally Posted by Bluehawk

If they have different velocities and calibres, they shouldn't do the same damage.

The stock damage model is so broad that a small difference wouldn't matter....or, at least, it wouldn't, if they weren't right on the edge of a breakpoint. As an example, see the MKb42. It has 50% more damage value than the stronger pistol rounds, but in almost all cases has exactly the same hits-to-kill.

[ak™]

This is a real told mine. Thanks for all the effort you guys put in articulating and posting pictures (Sarkis).

I was curious, and I think you guys mention how our players call out grenades and such, and sometimes even randomly taunt. I think there should be player stance modes that can be toggled. (regarding their chatter which enemies can hear.)

To be more clear, I don't know how else to describe it other than stealth mode where the soldier doesn't taunt or make unneccessary chatter for the enemy to hear.

The other would be hardcore soldier mode, where the soldier will call out enemies sighted (assuming he's being engaged or clearly sees the enemy - I wouldn't know how to make this judgement, like with z key but more automatic.)

The soldier also while in this toggled mode, may randomly taunt and scream while charging with the bayonet ready, as opposed to stealth mode which will quietly wield bayonets.

Considering that I haven't gone through this entire thread, this may have been mentioned, but let me know what your think regardless. It seems appropriate.

Looking at these discussed hit boxes, I may have an opinion but I'll post with detail ASAP.

[Sarkis.]

I did suggest something like this:

• Optional Communications Widget
Option to revert Communications Widget, the com. rose, to the Old Speech Menu from ROOST, with Achtung Shambeh Bambeh and a new one to make the player shut up



And thanks, but if you go reading this entire thread you'll end up crazy and locked up somewhere

[Rabid Penguin]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

And thanks, but if you go reading this entire thread you'll end up crazy and locked up somewhere

I actually did read this entire thread, but I was already crazy.

Firstly well done, it's a really well-thought-out proposal, and smart suggestions. I agree with/don't have a problem with pretty much everything, except for a few changes I would suggest:

• Overhead Map
Recon Plane spotted targets, map friendlies, only visible to Commander and Squad Leaders, but as a heatmaps, indistinguishable blobs of green, blue and red. Team deaths (red crosses) not visible.

Wouldn’t do it this way personally– in WW2 they didn’t have IR cameras that would generate heatmaps. Instead would simulate a photo-recon plane – plane flies over (one pass only) then a few seconds later the enemy indicators appear on the commander’s map, a few seconds after that they appear on the SL’s maps, and a few seconds after that they appear on the troops maps.
This simulates the info being passed down the chain of command. Also it would only show the enemy positions as they were when the plane flew over, so it only gave you an indication, but would have changed by the time everyone saw it.

• Capping an Objective
What if an undefended capzone was capped instantly, as it’s completely uncontested, as a punishment to the defending team for leaving the capzone empty?

Only the Commander can call arty still but it will take 30 seconds more for it to start after confirmed by the HQ.

I understand the reasoning but disagree, because in 30 seconds your team could be in that location instead of the enemy. Also, commander can’t walk away from the radio while calling artillery, and killing the commander AFTER he finishes the artillery call, but before the HQ confirms, DOESN’T cancel it. (So long as the commander has finished his little speech.)

New Proposed System of Zoom and Free Head Movement

I disagree with having zoom in this fashion; you can’t zoom your eyes IRL. (I do support the iron sights zoom however, because it’s not ‘zoom’ per se: as has been discussed endlessly on these forums, it’s merely returning to the correct angle of vision, since the normal one is a lot wider than real life to compensate for viewing on a screen)

For Free Head Movement, would be a lot simpler just to use the F key and move the orders widget key to G to replace grenade throw, instead of remapping the entire keyboard. If you want to keep your incremental zoom, then just use the + and – keys perhaps. Having the keyboard layout change between game modes = pain in the arse.

[Sarkis.]

Thanks for the feedback, responses in blue

Originally Posted by Rabid Penguin

• Overhead Map
Recon Plane spotted targets, map friendlies, only visible to Commander and Squad Leaders, but as a heatmaps, indistinguishable blobs of green, blue and red. Team deaths (red crosses) not visible.

Wouldn’t do it this way personally– in WW2 they didn’t have IR cameras that would generate heatmaps. Instead would simulate a photo-recon plane – plane flies over (one pass only) then a few seconds later the enemy indicators appear on the commander’s map, a few seconds after that they appear on the SL’s maps, and a few seconds after that they appear on the troops maps.
This simulates the info being passed down the chain of command. Also it would only show the enemy positions as they were when the plane flew over, so it only gave you an indication, but would have changed by the time everyone saw it.

Oh I didn't mean anything like IR cameras and stuff. It's just that recon planes were used only to provide adjustments to arty or get intel on the enemy strength. Common soldiers would not know such information, and the commanders would not know positions of individual soldiers, so what I suggested is that areas with lots of enemies become more highlighted than areas with less, instead of individual points

• Capping an Objective
What if an undefended capzone was capped instantly, as it’s completely uncontested, as a punishment to the defending team for leaving the capzone empty?

I don't like that, having no russians doesn't mean there are germans controlling that area. Now, what could happen, is the area turn neutral. Now I would agree. The problem is... there will always be people inside caps, and we are generally always contesting them. If you go foward after controlling someplace, the area is generally still yours.

Only the Commander can call arty still but it will take 30 seconds more for it to start after confirmed by the HQ.

I understand the reasoning but disagree, because in 30 seconds your team could be in that location instead of the enemy. Also, commander can’t walk away from the radio while calling artillery, and killing the commander AFTER he finishes the artillery call, but before the HQ confirms, DOESN’T cancel it. (So long as the commander has finished his little speech.)

Well, the 30 seconds are to add realism, and if the commander can call arty by map and calls it too close to his troops, he should immediately cancel. Or the troops should pay attention. About the commanders not being able to walk away from the radio, that can be a good suggestions yes. And if he receives confirmation and dies, the arty already drops in game.

New Proposed System of Zoom and Free Head Movement

I disagree with having zoom in this fashion; you can’t zoom your eyes IRL. (I do support the iron sights zoom however, because it’s not ‘zoom’ per se: as has been discussed endlessly on these forums, it’s merely returning to the correct angle of vision, since the normal one is a lot wider than real life to compensate for viewing on a screen)

For Free Head Movement, would be a lot simpler just to use the F key and move the orders widget key to G to replace grenade throw, instead of remapping the entire keyboard. If you want to keep your incremental zoom, then just use the + and – keys perhaps. Having the keyboard layout change between game modes = pain in the arse.

About zoom. We disagree. Our real world eyes see a lot better than in game. People at 300 meters look like a bunch of pixels, even with the current 2.3 zoom, so if we are to stand a chance at seeing let alone shooting people at 500 meters, we need more zoom.
About the remapping, that would be the default, but anyone would be able to freely configure their own, + and - are way too much far from the left hand and would turn extremely clunky zooming, zooming in and out have to be ever available and extremely quick to work. And the zoom and remapping suggestions themselves are not only for an new mode, but for all RO2

[Rabid Penguin]

Originally Posted by Sarkis.

Thanks for the feedback, responses in blue

• Capping an Objective
What if an undefended capzone was capped instantly, as it’s completely uncontested, as a punishment to the defending team for leaving the capzone empty?

I don't like that, having no russians doesn't mean there are germans controlling that area. Now, what could happen, is the area turn neutral. Now I would agree. The problem is... there will always be people inside caps, and we are generally always contesting them. If you go foward after controlling someplace, the area is generally still yours.

Sorry, I didn't explain this properly. I didn't mean that the objective becomes enemy controlled the instant there are no friendly troops in it. I meant that if the enemy enters a capzone in which there are no defending troops, they capture it instantly.

[Sarkis.]

I don't think that would work. There are many Attack/Defend maps in which the defending team also has to make a run for the first objective, like the germans in spartanovka, that would mean they always would start with A capped because a german dude can always get there first. Or the russians in Commissars House. It's kind of a balance thing.

The capping thing is there mostly to mean assimilated territory, not actual who controls the territory at the present time.

[Sarkis.]

Edited OP

• Tank Spawn This is the only change to game type rules introduced by Authentic Mode
Tank spawn untied from waves. Tanks take 50 seconds to respawn, in countdown timer once killed form. Countdown timer should be tied to the class and not the player, Panzer IV takes 70 seconds. Other player picking that class of a tank recently destroyed will not reset that timer, and hence will not allow immediate spawn. If there is another tank commander class available, the game will interpret and change the timer for that of the other tank class that is not being currently used. Combined Arms maps only

• Tank Combat
Rounds that shatter and penetrate should kill all the crew. Rounds that have enough energy to always penetrate, ''overmatch'', should have a greater probability of killing more crew members, if not the entire crew. A tank having lost all it's crew will not blow up, instead only disappear like a normal wreckage moments later. Panzer IV's main gun increased success rate dramatically against T-34, also against the frontal glacis, but not so much. Shots that penetrate should always stun the crew from performing their duties momentarily. Opening Up the hatches allow crew members to leave tank, à la Darkest Hour. Tank threads running over infantry have more success of killing, instead of dragging them foward. Panzer IV spawn countdown time 20 seconds greater than T34's 50 seconds

[PhoenixDragon]

Originally Posted by Rabid Penguin

I disagree with having zoom in this fashion; you can’t zoom your eyes IRL. (I do support the iron sights zoom however, because it’s not ‘zoom’ per se: as has been discussed endlessly on these forums, it’s merely returning to the correct angle of vision, since the normal one is a lot wider than real life to compensate for viewing on a screen)

This is so astoundingly wrong in so many ways. Straight-up factually wrong in some places: To start with, the field-of-view in-game is significantly narrower in-game than it is in real-life, not the other way around (Roughly 80-90 degrees in-game, depending on monitor, while in real-life the human eyes' field-of-view approaches 180 degrees). The idea that free-zoom is unrealistic yet iron-sight zoom is realistic is simply self-contradicting (Seriously, how in the world would this be different? It's like you're saying the eye is only capable of viewing things at full quality when you stick some metal pieces in front of it). And finally, the continuing idea that zoom in-game is some sort of unrealistic bionic-eye ability, while ignoring the fact that the current unzoomed view is significantly worse than real-life (Not only a narrower field-of-view, but also zoomed out as well). The view we get in-game is like looking through low-power binoculars backwards.

I'll agree that the proposed keyboard layout seems horribly clunky. But then, I don't think the free-look feature would be used much (Actually, I doubt I'd use it at all), and certainly not enough to take a dominant place on the keyboard.

[Rabid Penguin]

So you admit that the normal view is zoomed out to compensate for the narrower field of view. Therefore what I said about iron sight zoom is correct: its not zoom per se, its the level of zoom we SHOULD be able to have all the time.

[Holy.Death]

I'll just quote something from very old topic:

Yes, another thread on this topic. Lots of people hate this feature while some love it. But I'm gonna give you an exemple of how it's realistic and why it's in-game.

Ok so here we have a picture of a river and some buildings at the distance. Here's is what a human would see, designed by the red lines.

http://www.hapoelshack.com/img/maxi/projet1wsw.jpg

In real-life you would see all that landscape, and even more! Because the human eyes can almost see up to ~170°

But on your screen, that's impossible because you would need a HUGE screen that would take almost all your room and that would curve around you.

So he're what it looks on your screen.

http://www.hapoelshack.com/img/maxi/projet2internet.jpg

Ha man that's PAINFULL! Look how everything is too close to you now and how your field of view is reduced! So to avoid everything to be this close and your gun to look like it's stuck on your nose, GAME DEVELOPPERS tend to zoom it out a bit. Like this :

http://www.hapoelshack.com/img/maxi/projet3internet.jpg

But by doing this, it screw all the distances and scale properties! So what was 50m looks like it's 100m now, and more and more. So in RO2 when you use the zoom feature, it takes you back to the correct scale by, of course, reducing your field of view. So when you zoom you can see the objects and world at distance like a human would :

http://www.hapoelshack.com/img/maxi/...nternetdhd.jpg


It takes you back to the correct scale until you zoom out.



I hope it helped some people to understand why the ZOOM feature IS realistic and is in-game.

A correct scale + field of view would be possible in videogames but you would need a bigass screen that would curve around you, something that the average gamer doesn't have unless he's rich and thought about that or something.

So you can't have the field of view + the correct scale in video games right now.

Here's a good quote :

Your thoughts?

Would be good to stop arguing over what has been explained so long ago. I think some topics should be sticky to help new discutants understand that we've heard them and are bored listening to old arguments time and time again.