Change bullpup to weight 4?

[Utopia-Phoenix]

That's what the topic says. If a player got 4 blocks of free weight he can choose to take this small "Submachine gun" instead of the M10 or MP5/7. Bullpup is great for its low recoil while M10 and MP5/7 is not good to shoot F/A offperk.

[C_Gibby]

As a mando nut, I'd like it. The bullpup is by no means an OP weapon (though still a nice one) and I'd like to use it to free up some extra space in my loadout. If the Handcannon ever gets buffed so it can oneshot crawlers (just 7 points more damage per shot), I would love this changed.

[Spicy]

The "propup" doesn't get used enough, so this could be a nice change.

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Spicy

The "propup" doesn't get used enough, so this could be a nice change.

For commandos, this is not enough to bring it a frontline weapon. But 4 blocks means same weight as handcannon.

The other perks who wishes to carry an auto weapon can take it as a submachine gun.

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by Spicy

The "propup" doesn't get used enough, so this could be a nice change.

idk, I really love that thing

only gun that I can hold down the trigger and NOT feel like I'm wasting ammo, plus it's got a nice sight and is cheap.

[greenlemonade]

Why do people want the Bullpup buffed? Why do people want the bullpup lighter?

The Bullpup is a great weapon. It is not only useful, but very cheap. It has very low recoil with a good ROF and sights. Even at high levels, people use the Bullpup enough.


For those who say it weighs less in RL:

L22A1(bullpup): 4.42kg (6 blocks)

AK47 with wooden stock: 4.3kg (6 blocks)
(the Killing Floor AK looks like a Draco with wire stock which is lighter that 4.3kg)

M-4 Carbine: 2.88kg (6 blocks)

SCAR-H: 3.58kg (5 blocks)


So if anything, the M-4 should weigh 5 instead of 6. I say up the price slightly and make M-4 lighter. This will allow for fun like:
M-4+SCAR+M79

It would also make the M-4 a good off-perk weapon since the SCAR is way too expensive for that.

Heck, while we're at it, lets make the discount and damage bonus apply to the M203.

[Aze]

greenlemonade:

The weight system i personally see not only as weight only, i see it as a combination of weight and size. Encumbrance if you will. And the Bullpup is really tiny, hence lowering its "weight". Just my personal note on it (And the ideal weight imo is 5, a weight of 4 is way too good)

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Aze

greenlemonade:

The weight system i personally see not only as weight only, i see it as a combination of weight and size. Encumbrance if you will. And the Bullpup is really tiny, hence lowering its "weight". Just my personal note on it (And the ideal weight imo is 5, a weight of 4 is way too good)

by giving it 320 bullets offperk/ 400 bullets commando LV6, that's a compensation for 4 weight. I mean someone who don't wish to carry handcannon, can carry this one instead.

[C_Gibby]

Originally Posted by Utopia-Phoenix

by giving it 320 bullets offperk/ 400 bullets commando LV6, that's a compensation for 4 weight. I mean someone who don't wish to carry handcannon, can carry this one instead.

No.

The best part about the bullpup is that it has high-cap mags with assloads of spare ammo.

Don't ruin that.

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by C_Gibby

No.

The best part about the bullpup is that it has high-cap mags with assloads of spare ammo.

Don't ruin that.

There is another good point: Fast reload. Without this one the bullpup will be very much like the LMG I suggested in another thread.
Bullpup has to pour bullets like rain to do decent damage.

[greenlemonade]

I just think that this of all weapons doesn't need a change. It has been the same since day one. Practically all the other weapons were built around it. It is still very useful, even with a 6 weight.


As far as "encumbrance", just because its a little bit shorter than the other rifles doesn't mean its less bulky. It also looks a bit wider than the m4 and it still weighs a LOT more, so why make it 5 blocks? I don't see a gameplay reason for this. Tripwire obviously doesn't consider it bulk, because the SCAR is the longest of all the rifles an also the lightest at 5 blocks.
Any of the Iraqi Army solders that use M16s now instead of AKs will tell you they are much easier to carry. The M4 is even easier.

[Temstar]

There is a good reason why SCAR weight less than Bullpup - because that's how they are in real life. L85 family are known to be unusually heavy for 5.56 NATO assault rifles and a loaded L22 is 4.4kg. On the other hand a loaded SCAR-H is 3.7kg despite chambering for 7.62 NATO because it uses less metal and more composite material in its construction.

[C_Gibby]

Originally Posted by Temstar

There is a good reason why SCAR weight less than Bullpup - because that's how they are in real life. L85 family are known to be unusually heavy for 5.56 NATO assault rifles and a loaded L22 is 4.4kg. On the other hand a loaded SCAR-H is 3.7kg despite chambering for 7.62 NATO because it uses less metal and more composite material in its construction.

That sounds like a terrible reason.

[Leon_Glock]

It IS a terrible reason.
KF is a game. It needs balancing. Weight is a good way to balance.
You had to rework the entire game, if you wanted to make the weight apropriate to its real counterpart.

Some examples?
0 handgrenades weigh 1kg .... 11 handgrenades weigh 1kg. (a US Mk2 is about 0.6kg)
1 9mm weighs 0kg ... 2 9mms suddenly weigh 4kg (a real Beretta 92 is about 1.2kg
1 Handcannon weighs 4kg ... 2 Handcannons still weigh 4kg. (a real DE is about 2kg)
Armor weighs nothing
Hunting Shotgun weighs 10kg (real coach guns are about 3-4kg)
AA12 Shotgun weighs 10kg (real AA12 is about 5kg)
LAW weighs 10kg (real LAW 80 {which is closest} weighs 9kg, each rocket weighs 4kg, so Lvl6 Demo carries 97kg plus 8 pipebombs, 11 grenades and the rest of the standard gear)

Don't try to compare KF to the real deal. It just ain't possible.

[Aze]

Originally Posted by Leon_Glock

It IS a terrible reason.
KF is a game. It needs balancing. Weight is a good way to balance.
You had to rework the entire game, if you wanted to make the weight apropriate to its real counterpart.

Some examples?
0 handgrenades weigh 1kg .... 11 handgrenades weigh 1kg. (a US Mk2 is about 0.6kg)
1 9mm weighs 0kg ... 2 9mms suddenly weigh 4kg (a real Beretta 92 is about 1.2kg
1 Handcannon weighs 4kg ... 2 Handcannons still weigh 4kg. (a real DE is about 2kg)
Armor weighs nothing
Hunting Shotgun weighs 10kg (real coach guns are about 3-4kg)
AA12 Shotgun weighs 10kg (real AA12 is about 5kg)
LAW weighs 10kg (real LAW 80 {which is closest} weighs 9kg, each rocket weighs 4kg, so Lvl6 Demo carries 97kg plus 8 pipebombs, 11 grenades and the rest of the standard gear)

Don't try to compare KF to the real deal. It just ain't possible.

That pretty much sums it all up

[C_Gibby]

Originally Posted by Leon_Glock

It IS a terrible reason.
KF is a game. It needs balancing. Weight is a good way to balance.
You had to rework the entire game, if you wanted to make the weight apropriate to its real counterpart.

Some examples?
0 handgrenades weigh 1kg .... 11 handgrenades weigh 1kg. (a US Mk2 is about 0.6kg)
1 9mm weighs 0kg ... 2 9mms suddenly weigh 4kg (a real Beretta 92 is about 1.2kg
1 Handcannon weighs 4kg ... 2 Handcannons still weigh 4kg. (a real DE is about 2kg)
Armor weighs nothing
Hunting Shotgun weighs 10kg (real coach guns are about 3-4kg)
AA12 Shotgun weighs 10kg (real AA12 is about 5kg)
LAW weighs 10kg (real LAW 80 {which is closest} weighs 9kg, each rocket weighs 4kg, so Lvl6 Demo carries 97kg plus 8 pipebombs, 11 grenades and the rest of the standard gear)

Don't try to compare KF to the real deal. It just ain't possible.

I'm gonna quote this post in every weight debate there is.

[Leon_Glock]

I'm gonna be famous!!!!!

[Lacedaemonius]

Originally Posted by Leon_Glock

LAW weighs 10kg (real LAW 80 {which is closest} weighs 9kg, each rocket weighs 4kg, so Lvl6 Demo carries 97kg plus 8 pipebombs, 11 grenades and the rest of the standard gear)

Demo must be Doomguy in disguise.

[Splatpope]

Except it's not weight its block space

[Leon_Glock]

Well... i just assumed it would be kg, as 15kg gear seams reasonable for me.
Plus the "block" displayed in your hud states "kg" on it!