Tanks in competitive play

[Trotskygrad]

I'm not sure about how the competitive scene is going to play out, but I'm going to ask, what are your opinions about tanks in competitive play?

[Nikita]

For competitive play, we could use some provision for loading the main gun when the loader has been killed. Especially an issue in the 4-man T-34.

Next, a fix to this bug would help as well:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=80719

Which prevents tank commanders from giving orders to human drivers. Essential for competitive play.

And if you're talking about combined arms competitive play, then I'd argue longer respawns for tanks would be a possible improvement.

[ButchCassidy]

Originally Posted by Trotskygrad

I'm not sure about how the competitive scene is going to play out, but I'm going to ask, what are your opinions about tanks in competitive play?

We would love to see a tank tourney much like the old RO1 Ride Tide Tank tournament.

Hopefully we will begin to see more pure tank maps appear from the community.

[Zetsumei]

Tanks can work fine in competitive play. Although people that like tanking are often different from those that like infantry play.

Which is why I personally think in a ladder or league tank centric maps should be seperated from infantry centric maps.

Of course there are combined arms maps, but you can still often see whether a map is more focussed on tanking or infantry.

- Arad in OST was a map featuring infantry and tanks but was mostly a tank map.
- While Commisarhouse in HOS does feature tanks and infantry its mostly an infantry map.

For competitive play I would say that its important to disable any AI from spotting or shooting enemies. Having some AI reload or drive does not matter (if its directly based on user commands). But in the end the players should stay in full control.

8v8 tanking could work well especially with the addition of ai drivers. But again In my opinion it should probably be separated from the regular infantry based gameplay.

[Proud_God]

Longer tank respawn in CA would be awesome, but I guess this is a gerenal suggestion..

[Trotskygrad]

Well, apart from a dedicated tank tourney and a dedicated infantry tourney, I was talking about tanks in combined arms play.

Often times I hear from competitive CS and Quake players (not to mention those *ahem* CoD ones) that vehicles in general in competitive, combined arms play are not viable. I would like to hear your responses to that claim.

[Zetsumei]

in 5v5 a tank is probably not that viable. In 8v8 having 1 tank could become pretty viable. Personally i thought the tanks in say Koningsplatz in RO1 worked pretty well competitively.

However it is important that the tanks do not spot, or fire at live players during competitive play. Having a driver around that drives forward when you press w is ok for me. But having someone become an automatic turret is somewhat meh.

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

in 5v5 a tank is probably not that viable. In 8v8 having 1 tank could become pretty viable. Personally i thought the tanks in say Koningsplatz in RO1 worked pretty well competitively.

However it is important that the tanks do not spot, or fire at live players during competitive play. Having a driver around that drives forward when you press w is ok for me. But having someone become an automatic turret is somewhat meh.

well I was thinking a 2 man tank in a larger setting, so AI would be a non-issue.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by Trotskygrad

well I was thinking a 2 man tank in a larger setting, so AI would be a non-issue.

In general going together in a tank is a waste of resources. With limited (good) tanks sometimes it can be effective. But in competitive play you often play with relatively limited amount of players. And if you put 2 people in a tank on a tank only map you will have 4 tanks vs 8 tanks. And even if one tank is more effective if the others team up they can always outflank the enemy.

The other way around if you put 2 people in your tank it means that on the infantry side you might be playing with a man down.

People are always free to experiment, but currently with the ai and instantaneous position switching there isn't a big benefit in teaming up in a tank (even less than in Roost).

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

In general going together in a tank is a waste of resources. With limited (good) tanks sometimes it can be effective. But in competitive play you often play with relatively limited amount of players. And if you put 2 people in a tank on a tank only map you will have 4 tanks vs 8 tanks. And even if one tank is more effective if the others team up they can always outflank the enemy.

The other way around if you put 2 people in your tank it means that on the infantry side you might be playing with a man down.

People are always free to experiment, but currently with the ai and instantaneous position switching there isn't a big benefit in teaming up in a tank (even less than in Roost).

yeah but I think that tanks should be considered to be a 2-man crew vehicle, despite how ro2 added AI crew, I think that should totally be eliminated in competitive play (as it adds more randomness, the reactions of the AI to the combat situations, while predictable, could be easily exploited or at least somewhat random)

teams shouldn't have to sacrifice an infantry soldier to add another man for a tank, if tanks are in CA play, they should require 2 men to operate, with an optional third. At least in my opinion.

[Zetsumei]

Originally Posted by Trotskygrad

yeah but I think that tanks should be considered to be a 2-man crew vehicle, despite how ro2 added AI crew, I think that should totally be eliminated in competitive play (as it adds more randomness, the reactions of the AI to the combat situations, while predictable, could be easily exploited or at least somewhat random)

teams shouldn't have to sacrifice an infantry soldier to add another man for a tank, if tanks are in CA play, they should require 2 men to operate, with an optional third. At least in my opinion.

Although this discussion is probably going to specific now the issue with tanks will be that if you double up tankers per tank like 2 per tank, then it means 4 tanks vs 4 tanks. While soloing means 8 tanks vs 8 tanks in case of 8 human players.

Since competitive play is often done with lower player amounts to me it seems more logical to allow for solo tanking even if it might not be realistic. But indeed bots should be disabled from firing or spotting enemies.

[Trotskygrad]

Originally Posted by Zetsumei

Although this discussion is probably going to specific now the issue with tanks will be that if you double up tankers per tank like 2 per tank, then it means 4 tanks vs 4 tanks. While soloing means 8 tanks vs 8 tanks in case of 8 human players.

Since competitive play is often done with lower player amounts to me it seems more logical to allow for solo tanking even if it might not be realistic. But indeed bots should be disabled from firing or spotting enemies.

on combined arms maps? that's what I was talking about.

ofc for tank v. tank maps doubling up would be stupid, but for a CA map I think doubling up is necessary or at least the best option, since tanks should be limited to 1 per team imo.