Drop technical support for toasters

[YoYoBatty]

Originally Posted by timur

because you clearly have the right to decide what other people use their money for, including those with lower-end jobs or students that can't just pop a few thousand casually to get a gaming rig like it's no big deal. I'm sorry to sound rude: I don't mean to say you are arrogant, mean, or controlling, if that is what it sounded like.

If you ask me, you sounded as polite as a French woman inviting down for a cigarette or two. I prefer a response that is more matching to my opinion, specifically my tone, which is something that is fully open to criticism, otherwise if it's a fact that I state then you can kiss my *** and believe what you want. Perhaps I was being ignorant towards the actual fact that you stated and wasn't considering the misfortune of other people? Or perhaps I was just being a little insensitive? Number 2 it is.

[Gartley]

Originally Posted by crashmatusow

2GB per application
~3.5Gb for the OS, exempting PAE.

still doesn't change the fact that ram is cheap.

Still doesn't change the fact the engine will not utilise more than what it's designed to. Go on, stick 16GB or 32GB of RAM in to your machine and see how much difference it makes to gaming with KF, or gaming in general... oh wait... it doesn't.

The only time you need that much RAM is if you work in Media. Gaming needs no more than 8GB at absolute maximum. And most of that is for bloated OS and background processes.

[Left 4 Dinner]

untill you know what its like to be with little money, in debt, or raise a family and having to "make ends meet", then you just wont get how hard it is to buy new stuff. For many people, they could buy a better graphics card, or a newer computer, but if money is tight, you HAVE to decide whats more important, food on the table or new computer? Unless you're a complete idiot, of course you would buy food and pass on the computer, because computer's are a want, not a need.

What timur and nutter were saying, were true and fair, while what your saying, is true, in a way, but fairly narrow sighted.

[Spicy]

I'm sorry, I thought the the discussion was trending toward technical reasons for the stated minimum and recommended system requirements of the game. (Rhenna and Gartley). Not economic ones that are designed to make people feel bad for suggesting they be increased at the risk of excluding the less fortunate. (Timur and Left 4 Dinner) I guess I was wrong?

[Left 4 Dinner]

Originally Posted by Spicy

I'm sorry, I thought the the discussion was trending toward technical reasons for the stated minimum and recommended system requirements of the game. Not economic ones that are designed to make people feel bad for suggesting they be increased at the risk of excluding the less fortunate. I guess I was wrong?

Yeah, but the reason for the removal of weapons left on the ground is because of performance, and performance is being capped, and its being capped so that those with lesser performing computers can still play, and some players with better computers are annoyed of the cap, and some players with better computers are explaining how its so easy and cheap it is to get a better computer. So thats basically whats going on. oh, and I noticed that post was your 666th post @_@

[Rhenna]

The worst-case scenarios, in terms of hardware, would probably be laptops of the non-DTR variety. (DeskTop Replacement.) These would represent the platforms where upgrading the CPU and/or the graphics hardware would either be impossible or prohibitively costly. These are also the platforms most likely to be sharing system memory with the graphics solution, too.

But, pretty much every platform can accept additional, or, if necessary, replacement RAM modules. And, bringing a system up to, say, at least 1Gb from 512Mb, is neither all that costly or technically challenging. What does a 2nd 512Mb, or replacement 1Gb DIMM or SODIMM cost? Depends on this and that, (Hint: don't buy it from the outfit that made your system), but probably less than the cost of a so-called "A" title game. And, *everything* the computer is used for is likely to benefit, not just the user's Killing Floor experience.

Yes, it is always easy to spend other people's money; I get that. I also know what it is like to not have any. I completely agree that the ability to play video games isn't too important when that happens. I don't believe anyone who posted within this thread is insensitive to that situation, or auditioning for Resident Hardware-Nazi.

All I'm driving at is that the current minimum specs for the game are essentially right out of Fantasy Land. For the minimum memory requirements, it should read something like:

WindowsXP: 1Gb
Windows Vista/Windows7: 2Gb
Note: For systems utilizing shared system/graphic memory, additional system RAM is strongly recommended.

Not nearly perfect, but a little more in touch with reality. It might be enough to give the lads at TWI the room to creatively "wiggle their toes" a tiny bit.

Yes, adjusting the minimum specs upwards doesn't improve the lot of players with systems at the current minimum. And, trust me, I'm all about getting the most out of existing hardware, regardless of age. (I still have a fully-functional IBM PC-XT, among other relics.)

But, in this age of smart phones, tablets, and digital what-not, is springing for a stick of RAM, that will likely make one fall in love with their system all over again, too high a hurdle?

[Gartley]

For the most part I agree with Rhenna's post. Especially about clarifying the system requirements.

But if we take my current position for example. If I had not bought a new system 3 years ago at a time when my household was enjoying spare cash to spend I would have been using a system from over 10years go still.

As it stands now, my father and myself were made redundant, can I afford some RAM after rent and rates? Yes but only because I've cut back on so many other areas like my phone, TV, subscriptions, brand name food, smoking and drinking. My father and I prioritise our computers and internet simply because we need it for what little work we both get in now. I need a new hard drive. I still can't afford it though.

The point of this little monologue is just to highlight that each situation is different, where you may think £15 on a stick of RAM is nothing. Someone will think different when that £15 will pay for a weeks fuel to get to and from work.

[Splatpope]

This is a bit like Arma2 and DayZ, the former runs fine on most low end system, while the latter ****s on your computer.

DayZ devs could choose to keep themselves from using the big and full of content chernarus map, or spend long times optimizing anything they can, reducing the advance on the mod's development to a trickle, but they chose to go full farce and now, people like me with a meh PC are obligated to surrender the awesome experience that is DayZ.

And guess what I didnt give much ****s and played another game instead, and it's not harming DayZ's dev at all.

The point is that it wouldn't harm TWI either to let it rip memory-side, the influx of players that's going to buy the Gold edition or come for the summer slideshow will replace the toaster guys anyways.

[ro_sauce]

well, did you pay for "DayZ" ?

i paid for killing floor, so if all of a sudden they changed something so it didnt work on my computer anymore, shouldnt i get my money back?

i think then it would affect them.

[CandleJack]

I still stand by my low- and high-end server idea.

That would enable people to have a better experience all-round.

[Gartley]

In theory a good idea, but then we have trouble with people not being able to identify a server's difficulty despite icons etc. So adding something else I think would only serve to confuse. I've also never been fond of 'you must be this tall to ride' divisions within games themselves.

[Benjamin]

Originally Posted by Splatpope

The point is that it wouldn't harm TWI either to let it rip memory-side, the influx of players that's going to buy the Gold edition or come for the summer slideshow will replace the toaster guys anyways.

I personally think that the 'toaster' guys are those that will stick with the game for a long time, instead of ditching it for the newest shiny FPS.

[CandleJack]

Originally Posted by Gartley

In theory a good idea, but then we have trouble with people not being able to identify a server's difficulty despite icons etc. So adding something else I think would only serve to confuse. I've also never been fond of 'you must be this tall to ride' divisions within games themselves.

Perhaps the game could auto-detect what hardware you're using and switch filters according to what end of the spectrum you're at?

I've noticed that games can auto-detect graphics levels, so why not power levels?

[ro_sauce]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

I personally think that the 'toaster' guys are those that will stick with the game for a long time, instead of ditching it for the newest shiny FPS.

yeah i only stick to one game every 3+ years (quake2, half-life, counterstrike, ro, kf, now maybe ro2 if it gets better)

[osmodeus]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

I've noticed that games can auto-detect graphics levels, so why not power levels?

they dont detect graphics performance they just have a table that matches the name of the graphics adapter.

they can detect what shaders and screensize etc but the rest is educated guesswork.

the guy who said the specs sound more like a mid range pc from 2004...they are probably copy and pasted from ut2004.

i've said this elsewhere, but KF2 will be gladly welcomed, i hope they use unreal4.

[Splatpope]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

I personally think that the 'toaster' guys are those that will stick with the game for a long time, instead of ditching it for the newest shiny FPS.

oh god really

[YoYoBatty]

Originally Posted by Splatpope

oh god really

No man. He sounded serious on this one. Don't do it man. Game over man, game over!

[Teraku]

Guys, I appreciate it if you bring good arguments or counter-arguments, but at least think them through. My main problem with Tripwire not wanting to drop support for these people is that the rest of the people have to suffer. Who knows what decisions Tripwire didn't go through with just because that would exceed the 512 MB's of RAM.

Originally Posted by CandleJack

One thing that might be a good idea:

Instead of dropping support for potatoes, give servers the option to pick their level of power. Low-powered servers would run well on potatoes, and high-powered servers would run well on high-end rigs.

There, you might be splitting the community, but you can then tailor gameplay to different needs and get rid of certain laggy features such as trader time cleanup.

I definitely have to agree with this. Most people would be able to play on all servers, but people trying to use potatoes to power their PC's can just go play on Low-End.

[Lacedaemonius]

I'm for it, but there really ought to be a poll to better gauge player support/opposition