Two suggestions for the demo M4 (one needed ASAP)

[nutterbutter]

The first is the key bind. The M4 on the 4 key is just about impossible to play in later rounds. Right now, a demo has to cycle between the m32, m4, and pipe bombs. In the later rounds when the demo needs to carry pipe bombs, that cycling on switching between the m32 and m4 just takes too long. Much too long. As in "I need bullets, switch, pause, switch, armor gone" and it just gets worse after the armor is gone. The M4 really needs to be on the 3 key.

The second is possibly slowing down the cyclic rate on the m4. There is no option to switch to single fire and the m4 burns ammo way too fast.

[C_Gibby]

I agree with what nutter has to say for once.

Thought that.. problem with the full-auto also persists in the MP5 and regular M4.

[BenioX]

I agree although... why even use M4 203, the-paintball-gun-with-half-the-M79-attatched-and-huge-omgwtfrecoil? :S
I mean, even M79 is more useful than M4 203... double the nades, cheap, takes less space, bind to 3 not to 4...

[Althamus]

I agree on the keybind problem. I never use the M4, but I can understand how that can be a pain in the ***.

The problem of firing on full auto... I personally never have a problem with that when I usethe AA12 or MAC10. I just click fast? I rarely accidently fire 3 bullets off at once with the MAC10.
Maybe a 3 round burst would be a nice compromise though? Giving you enough bullets to hit whatever and put it down, without accidently spraying half a mag at whatever. Considering that the option of switching firing type isn't available with the nade launcher on alt fire.

@Beniox, it depends on circumstance and team, but not being utterly reliant on your team protecting you can be very useful. I'm trying out katana/MP7M/M32/pipes as my demo currently, so that if I get isolated, or spot two gorefasts coming up behind the team, I can actually kill them and survive (short of point blanking two M32s at them).

[half_baked]

A fun fact as to why the m4, mp5, and m4203 are so uncontrollable in full-auto is because of the rate of fire. In fact the rate of fire of the previously mentioned weapons is 800 rpm, in comparison to the 600 rpm of the bullpup.

I think TWI should separate the stats of m4 and m4203, and slow m4203 rate of fire to be equal with the bullpup. (And remove commando bonuses, except for reload speed)

[pie1055]

My biggest annoyance with the M4 is that no matter how lightly I tap the trigger, it always instantly fires 2 bullets. I don't hear the firing sound twice, and I don't see the firing animation twice, yet an extra bullet goes missing. It makes 30 rounds feel more like 15 >_>;

[ro_sauce]

well, come august 1st hopefully twi changes some things.

[Amber Glass]

see i told ya the M4203 needs some buffin

semi auto or simply a reduction of the ROF would be enough for me to use it more frequently. also i bind the m4203 to my 1 key whenever i use it with the m32. my pipes are always on 6, so i can get them out quickly.

[jaylahaine]

Yeah, I often use the M4 M203, it's a pain in the *** to cycle through it to put pipes or get the M32. I think I blew myself up once because of this. Put it on "3", it would be great.

And even if I prefer the M4 to the M79, I'll admit that it needs some buffing. Maybe nerf the recoil slightly, or decrease reload times.

[Azukki]

Originally Posted by pie1055

I don't hear the firing sound twice

It's a looping sound, which almost never actually correlates to the amount of rounds you fire. I don't understand why they started using looping gunfire sounds; they're awful compared to playing a sound for each shot of a full auto burst.
It's was alright on the MP7 when they first did it, because that's 1200rpm and it's extremely hard to fire only one shot with it anyways, but with the lower RPM MP5 and M4, it becomes practical to try to fire one shot at a time, and when you try that, you just hear the "fade out echo" that's supposed to play after you fire for a while, no gunshots. It seems to be a pointless step backward in quality from the other weapons' nice sounds that actually indicate how many rounds are fired.

Originally Posted by pie1055

it always instantly fires 2 bullets.

I take it this is from experience in single player? In single player the looping-sound full auto weapons (m4,m4203,mp7,mp5) are bugged, firing the first two rounds of a burst at exactly the same time. You can't fire a single shot unless it's the only one loaded. I tried firing a single round for about an hour and it simply can't be done.
I did find that you can actually utilize this to fire the whole mag almost twice as fast as a regular full auto mag dump. The frantic clicking makes my aim suck, along with the extra recoil, so it's not very useful, though.
In multiplayer, you can take a single shot with these weapons. The higher the rpm, the harder it is to do consistently without distracting yourself from aiming, though.

Lower RPM would make single shots on the M4203 easier, and thus make it less useless, yeah, but a more thorough revamping of it could make it properly useful instead. What I had in mind was if the M4203 be changed into a semi auto, get a 1.26x headshot bonus, (just enough to decap trash on HoE) have a capacity reduction to 20, and an ammo reserve reduction to 200. I think this would make it very suitable for very deliberate usage on all difficulties while not being overpowered.
Alternatively, lower recoil could make double-tapping heads more feasible, and balance out the M203 to usefulness. This would also be realistic; the added weight of the M203 hanging off the front of an M4 does tone down its muzzle rise.

And yes, Pipes/M32/M4203 all on slot 4 is a bother and fixing that should be a high priority for TWI. But not as high as making a single .44 weigh 2 again, but I digress.

[FluX]

I personally think that Pipebombs should be on a different number key. 4 is for the elite weapons and technically, Pipebombs are equipment so maybe 3 would be best as 5 would annoy people against the Syringe and the Welder.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by FluX

I personally think that Pipebombs should be on a different number key. 4 is for the elite weapons and technically, Pipebombs are equipment so maybe 3 would be best as 5 would annoy people against the Syringe and the Welder.

I'd vote them to be the 6th weapon cathegory.

[Amber Glass]

you can bind pipe bombs to a key rather easily, just type in console "set input key pipebombexplosive", its much more convenient than having to cycle everytime. i think the M4203 should get a slight price reduction to match the price of the M32, maybe a bit higher at 800, increase the grenade cap to 15, and change the fire rate to semi-automatic, but keep the high recoil and long reload times.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Amber Glass

you can bind pipe bombs to a key rather easily, just type in console "set input key pipebombexplosive", its much more convenient than having to cycle everytime. i think the M4203 should get a slight price reduction to match the price of the M32, maybe a bit higher at 800, increase the grenade cap to 15, and change the fire rate to semi-automatic, but keep the high recoil and long reload times.

^This. The M4 203 is a joke as it is and what he just said would make it more useful, although I'd also suggest the M4 203 counting as commando weapon as well.

[CandleJack]

The M4/M203 is fine on 4, since the M79 is on 3 both can be carried at the same time.

There's no need to double-tap any key to get to your second weapon, since they're both on different keys.

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

The M4/M203 is fine on 4, since the M79 is on 3 both can be carried at the same time.

There's no need to double-tap any key to get to your second weapon, since they're both on different keys.

Um, isn't it far more common to take the M4 203 with the M32? With the 203, you've already got your ability to clean a few smaller mobs without a nade. I'm not sure what people would use the extra weight for?
But with the M32, you can rapid fire nades to let you solo FPs or clear large numbers of zeds in a hurry.

[Amber Glass]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

The M4/M203 is fine on 4, since the M79 is on 3 both can be carried at the same time.

There's no need to double-tap any key to get to your second weapon, since they're both on different keys.

yes but most people dont carry both of these at the same time, its like a support carrying a shotgun and combat shotgun, maybe alright on lower difficulties but quite hindering on higher ones. that being said, it is possible to speed kill a fleshpound with the m4203/m79 + frags, but it is much more difficult and less forgiving than using the m32. that being said, i do like using the m4203 + M79 + katana + pipes on occasion, as it is more challenging than taking the m32.