On Splitting The Community

[CopperHead]

Is classic mode out yet?

That is all I want to know.

[AsoBit]

Yes

[Hypno Toad]

I agree with the OP.

ROOST was nice and simple. Open server browser > Join populated server.

RO2 = Open server browser > Filter servers by gamemode > Wait for refresh > See if anybody is playing in server of a particular game mode > Nobody is playing particular server > Exit Game > play an online game that actually functions properly.

This "community division" is utterly ridiculous. A mathematically insigniciant proportion of people like each "niche" of the game, ROOST kept alive for years on the same group of 2000-4000 semi-frequent player whereas RO2 is just too convoluted for anybody to bother, that's why almost nobody plays it. Making even further divided "game modes" is just going to aggravate the problem.

[Cwivey]

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad

I agree with the OP.

ROOST was nice and simple. Open server browser > Join populated server.

RO2 = Open server browser > Filter servers by gamemode > Wait for refresh > See if anybody is playing in server of a particular game mode > Nobody is playing particular server > Exit Game > play an online game that actually functions properly.

No.

You only need to apply filters once, as you did with RO:OST.

[luciferintears]

why didnt they just make:

Relaxed = Realism
Realism = Classic

and then delete the actual relaxed mode. Does anyone sincerely enjoy that mode?

I agree there are too many modes. At most there should be 2.

[omniconsumer]

Most people like options. I know I do. I hate the idea of crosshairs or action mode, but I am sure others love it. More people should experience ro2 in whatever way they want to.

[Torio]

Originally Posted by luciferintears

why didnt they just make:

Relaxed = Realism
Realism = Classic

and then delete the actual relaxed mode. Does anyone sincerely enjoy that mode?

I agree there are too many modes. At most there should be 2.

Sure, as long as we can bring our hard-earned unlocks into Classic.

Have you played Normal lately? The improvements are significant and it is surprisingly fun. I can easily see it becoming at least as if not more popular than either realism modes.

[wazups2x]

I agree, less game modes the better. I seriously don't even care what the game mode is. The community is already small enough, splitting it any further is only going to hurt the game.

I hate when a game can't decide what it wants to be. Just work on one main game mode and make it the best it can be.

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by Keunus

Its true that this should have bin the only mode but if enough people play Classic mode I'm going to re-consider buying RO2

Why don't you come back simply playing in RO 2 with us ! Do you know RO 2 original is not hte same than as its starting ? (i think you know already it but you are still furious against the game...) So why you can't come back a litlle in RO 2 ?

Originally Posted by wazups2x

I agree, less game modes the better. I seriously don't even care what the game mode is. The community is already small enough, splitting it any further is only going to hurt the game.

I hate when a game can't decide what it wants to be. Just work on one main game mode and make it the best it can be.

I am agree with you.

Originally Posted by omniconsumer

Most people like options. I know I do. I hate the idea of crosshairs or action mode, but I am sure others love it. More people should experience ro2 in whatever way they want to.

Creating so much (to much) way of gaming inside game will kill community firstly, secondary the game. because Tripwire don't want to do look like RO 1 : one way of gaming inside the game, they fall in opposite error : several (too much i think ) way of gaming inside the game.
I don't talk about mods, it s another question. Darkest hours is a MOD who is OUTSIDE a game. RO classic is a WAY OF GAMING who is INSIDE, already inside, a game. I am talking only about RO 2, and the way of gaming from this game only. A game is one community. Look like RO 1 and RO 2 in the starting. RO 1 didn't RO classic for working very well, and to be famous.

[Cyper]

Originally Posted by omniconsumer

Most people like options. [...] More people should experience ro2 in whatever way they want to.

Sounds good on the paper, but in reality I don't think it will work.

The competition in the gaming industry is fierce. The first thing to do is to find an audience that you want to appeal to. The second thing to do is to find what really appeals to this audience. Hire famous voice actors, story writers, do huge and extremely expensive marketing campaigns, invite game reviewers and give them free food, booze, and some kind of activities. If you have a good economical situation you can create a Blacklist and bann certain reviewers to review your game. Spend dozen of millions and have the most high quality Devs. The other option would be: Create an extremely innovative videogame and you may be in the game.

With that said, trying to focus on making a game that is suitable for everyone is not going to work because you will then compete with everyone in almost all genres. You can't expect to attract the mainstream and competing with COD while also focusing on appealing to all kinds of niche audiences. It will make the game watered down. It will en up in an half-assed attempt to appeal to the niche audience, and it will be the same with the mainstream. Games such as Brink and Body Count did all they could to appeal to the mainstream yet they failed. Games like Codemasters Operation Flashpoint tried to do both, and they failed even more.

If you look at COD and arma - two completely different games - which are the opposite of each others - they did what they wanted to do, and the audience and the style of gameplay they do is not divided into modes or hordes of different modes, its just one solid unit. That is why I believe those games are successful in their own market.

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by Cyper

That is why I believe those games are successful in their own market.

Ok.
And do you believe RO 1 and RO 2 are successful in their own market : their own artistical position, who means the creation of a game out of industrial way of thinking games ? Don't you believe Triwpire is perfect inside this sector ?? They are less strong industrialy than the creator of BF and COD...But they are stronger - so much stronger - than BF and COD creator in artistical position.

Triwpire mens are firstly artists who do industrial strategy. BF and COD creators are firstly industrials men who try to do artist creation. Inside artistical "market" COD and BF have defeat - not success. RO 1 and RO 2 show it clearly by its own realism.

[Cyper]

Wrong topic.

[MarioBava]

Originally Posted by Cyper

If I were Tripwire I would come up with a final solution to settle this once and for all. That solution would be to remove all modes and replace them with RO CLASSIC.

....

The super niche audience who want this mix between Red Orchestra formula and COD gets filtered out and the game can finally focus on its core audience exactly like arma. This is not selfish and I tell you why! Because the roosters were the minority. The mainstream is not! Mainstream is mainstream, its huge, and thats why its not fair to cater to it!

You made a poll and the results are not agreeing with your idea, so now in spite of it you are arguing that the smaller group from your poll are actually the ones who TWI need to listen to? Was the poll just for no reason?

Minority/Majority, it all depends on what group we are talking about a minority or majority of (if you mean all fps gamers, you mean one thing, if players of RO:Ost you mean another, if players of RO2 you mean yet another); so you can play mental gymnastics to try to argue that your unpopular idea is a good idea, but what you've said here just makes no sense.

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by Cyper

If you look at COD and arma - two completely different games -

RO classic is a WAY OF GAMING INSIDE the game. Darkest hours and mare nostrum for exemple are MODS OUTSIDE the game.

Now with RO classic we will have 2 different games INSIDE the same game...If patches come lately, now they will also come more lately?

Originally Posted by MarioBava

but what you've said here just makes no sense.

And it help to split surely the community. (by vote of this kind...) Why not a vote to cancel RO classic ??

[PeteAtomic]

Originally Posted by ro2player

RO classic is a WAY OF GAMING INSIDE the game. Darkest hours and mare nostrum for exemple are MODS OUTSIDE the game.

Now with RO classic we will have 2 different games INSIDE the same game...If patches come lately, now they will also come more lately?



And it help to split surely the community. (by vote of this kind...) Why not a vote to cancel RO classic ??

lol. After the months of TWI creating the classic mode? After the months of the players hand wringing and the countless hours debating and arguing about another mode? TWI is sticking to 3 modes.

[ro2player]

And after playing RO classic, players will ask countdown and firefigth inside RO classic itself. They will want to switch firefigth and countdown in RO classic way of gaming syle as the same way territory have been switched in RO classic with the patch. Maybe also RO 2 players will evacuate in RO classic.
Is RO classic show the failure of finality of patches ? Patches need to repair problems and switch from old gameplay to a new gameplay. Why creating RO classic ? and why not still working inside RO 2 with patches ? (even if gameplay will change - i can be ok with until a limit). If gameplay need to be modified : it's ok but from inside RO 2 original and not from RO classic or another.
RO 2 need more patches than RO classic. After this patch, we will have this problem : RO 2 original will need patches and RO classic will need patches.

[MarioBava]

Originally Posted by ro2player

And it help to split surely the community. (by vote of this kind...) Why not a vote to cancel RO classic ??

...and I think a poll on the idea of cancelling Classic would exhibit similar, if not stronger opinion against.

Originally Posted by ro2player

And after playing RO classic, players will ask countdown and firefigth inside RO classic itself. They will want to switch firefigth and countdown in RO classic way of gaming syle as the same way territory have been switched in RO classic with the patch. Maybe also RO 2 players will evacuate in RO classic.

If I am wrong someone will surely correct me, but I seem to recall playing both Firefight and Countdown on the Beta Classic mode server(s). It's confusing, but as far as I know Classic/Realism/Relaxed(Action?)/(Custom) are just the 3(4) basic realism modes which will overlay any of the 3 gametypes which are Territory, Countdown, and Firefight. For example, a Classic server can have TE, CD, and FF maps all in the same rotation just as well as a Realism or Relaxed server can.

Originally Posted by ro2player

Is RO classic show the failure of finality of patches ? Patches need to repair problems and switch from old gameplay to a new gameplay. Why creating RO classic ? and why not still working inside RO 2 with patches ? (even if gameplay will change - i can be ok with until a limit). If gameplay need to be modified : it's ok but from inside RO 2 original and not from RO classic or another.
RO 2 need more patches than RO classic. After this patch, we will have this problem : RO 2 original will need patches and RO classic will need patches.

Interesting observation about patches. It's a good point, but I think the devs really hope to find the sweet spot of each mode in the beta first so that what seems like almost continuous fiddling in the beta will be obviated for the actual release product. Of course, very few are actually testing the beta in earnest, so reception of the patch is not very predictable right now. There could be outcry over something that may need changing.

I used to be where you are with this idea, I thought that creating a new mode would be wrong. I could get used to new gameplay but I thought it better for the game to have one identity rather than have it be a very different experience from server to server. But since playing the beta, I've changed my mind mainly because I prefer Realism --especially since it has been improved in the beta-- and I see a pretty good chunk of players also probably do. Classic may become the most popular mode, but I'd like to have the choice, hypothetically at least, of not having to play it.

[ro2player]

Originally Posted by MarioBava

I used to be where you are with this idea, I thought that creating a new mode would be wrong. I could get used to new gameplay but I thought it better for the game to have one identity rather than have it be a very different experience from server to server.

Ok. So why Tripwire didn't directly worked INSIDE RO 2 ? Why create 2 way of gaming ? One game, one way of gaming, no ??

Originally Posted by MarioBava

and I see a pretty good chunk of players also probably do. Classic may become the most popular mode,

If players will join RO classic and if nobody play RO 2 original, why is the reason to keep it ?
Game ROHOS need to change. But now with RO classic ROHOS will change mainly ONLY from RO classic.
Game ROHOS need to change, but it need to change directly from RO 2 original...

Originally Posted by MarioBava

...and I think a poll on the idea of cancelling Classic would exhibit similar, if not stronger opinion against.

But this poll don't exist. (as i know) At the difference of the poll asking to remove all way of gaming except RO classic.

Originally Posted by MarioBava

If I am wrong someone will surely correct me, but I seem to recall playing both Firefight and Countdown on the Beta Classic mode server(s). It's confusing, but as far as I know Classic/Realism/Relaxed(Action?)/(Custom) are just the 3(4) basic realism modes which will overlay any of the 3 gametypes which are Territory, Countdown, and Firefight. For example, a Classic server can have TE, CD, and FF maps all in the same rotation just as well as a Realism or Relaxed server can.

Imagine all the time patches will need to be finished...More way of gaming, more help needed, more patches...
RO 2 is going to become one game with 2 community.
For RO 2 original waiting is so long. So imagine patches for RO classic, etc...
And finaly Imagine players want a second wave of new RO classic ( An RO classic more realist or less realist).
Imagine anothers and new way of gaming are coming in news patches ! (i dont know: RO ultra, RO classic special, etc... )

The question is not to work or to not work for ROHOS. The question is where starting the work for ROHOS. The solution was to stay INSIDE RO 2 but to continue to work from RO 2. Not to start to work outside of RO 2 original and inside RO classic.

It s means : all the good job must be done directly from RO 2 original, by this way the community will be still one.

[PeteAtomic]

MarioBava said:

"If I am wrong someone will surely correct me, but I seem to recall playing both Firefight and Countdown on the Beta Classic mode server(s). It's confusing, but as far as I know Classic/Realism/Relaxed(Action?)/(Custom) are just the 3(4) basic realism modes which will overlay any of the 3 gametypes which are Territory, Countdown, and Firefight. For example, a Classic server can have TE, CD, and FF maps all in the same rotation just as well as a Realism or Relaxed server can. "

There will be 3 modes: Action, Realism & Classic. As far as I understand, a server will be able to host firefight, countdown, and territory, inside each one of the modes.

[PeteAtomic]

RO2player said:

[QUOTE=ro2player;1066098]Ok. So why Tripwire didn't directly worked INSIDE RO 2 ? Why create 2 way of gaming ? One game, one way of gaming, no ??

And finaly Imagine players want a second wave of new RO classic ( An RO classic more realist or less realist).
Imagine anothers and new way of gaming are coming in news patches ! (i dont know: RO ultra, RO classic special, etc... )"

From everything TWI has put out, the classic mode will be a finished product. There is no discussion, from TWI or the community, about modes beyond classic.

I understand all of your concerns. They're valid ones. From what I understand from your writing, you are worried that essentially TWI is creating separate games from each other with these different modes. There is truth to that. Particularily comparing the action mode from the classic mode. I've played both of these new modes in beta. Action is very different from classic, so much, that they're completely different game experiences.