Any Way to Change Flamethrower to Slot 4?

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

But bullets can do it np?

I'm fine with everything being able to fly through friend's bodies. In a tightly crowded corridor, it just makes things so much easier. If I wanted to watch my shots for allies, I'd play on a FF server?

+1. Also, with Demolition it is still as I said - or he will be OP or underpowered. Or he will kill many with his expensive shots or he will die every round because people will get in his way and he'll explode so noone will play demo anymore, not to mention he's most expensive so why take the expensive guy while the danger would be too high? Or OP or UP. Not that I like it, but if you "Balance" Demolitions then he should not use explosives in first place and then he'll not be Demolitions.

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by BenioX

+1. Also, with Demolition it is still as I said - or he will be OP or underpowered. Or he will kill many with his expensive shots or he will die every round because people will get in his way and he'll explode so noone will play demo anymore, not to mention he's most expensive so why take the expensive guy while the danger would be too high? Or OP or UP. Not that I like it, but if you "Balance" Demolitions then he should not use explosives in first place and then he'll not be Demolitions.

Demo is always the biggest risk though. In the perfect scenario, with the perfect team, he will be by far the most powerful class (I'm thinking the room downstairs in hospital horrors, with supports welding the front door open and closed to let zeds build up. He could get like 3x the kills of anyone else in the team). But with almost no ability to clear stuff nearby (assuming M79/M32 loadout, which is the most common loadout) and costing maybe twice as much as other classes (never counted the prices) he is a big risk as well.

I only play em in games with a lot of friends, or where I'm pretty sure of the team's strategy (biotics? So we're holding out at spawn then.) Otherwise they're too limiting.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

Demo is always the biggest risk though. In the perfect scenario, with the perfect team, he will be by far the most powerful class (I'm thinking the room downstairs in hospital horrors, with supports welding the front door open and closed to let zeds build up. He could get like 3x the kills of anyone else in the team). But with almost no ability to clear stuff nearby (assuming M79/M32 loadout, which is the most common loadout) and costing maybe twice as much as other classes (never counted the prices) he is a big risk as well.

I only play em in games with a lot of friends, or where I'm pretty sure of the team's strategy (biotics? So we're holding out at spawn then.) Otherwise they're too limiting.

Pretty much sums up what I wanted say - Demo is at same time OP and UP, depending on circumstances. But if rockets couldn't go through players, the danger of self-destruction would be too big to even be concidered and so from OP Demo he'd become UP useless perk.

Edit: Also, I use LAW not M32/79 and it's even harder to protect myself in close-combat.

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by BenioX

Edit: Also, I use LAW not M32/79 and it's even harder to protect myself in close-combat.

Eh, assuming you're excluding blunt damage because if you're blunting things, you're wasting rockets, it's equally hard. After all, with either combo, you can't take other weapons, so you're limited to knifing/9mming things.

I'm trying to use M32/MP7M/katana as a demo. M32 is as good as a LAW against FPs or crowds of zeds, and HOPEFULLY I'll have allies who can kill the scrakes for me. Also, if you're picking your shots, the M32 should have plenty of grenades IMHO, even on higher waves where you will use 4 per FP. And the addition of the medic gun means that you can keep allies alive while you're sitting at the back (demo is IMHO the perfect class to multiclass medic), and the MP7M and katana mean that you can also kill the occassional clot that passes everyone else by, and also gives you the ability to clutch if you need to.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

(demo is IMHO the perfect class to multiclass medic)

Weird, I found commando perfect class to multiclass medic. The loadout of SCAR/FNfal ACOG/MP5 or MP7 being great, although if so then I always have to start as medic to get the medigun or ask someone who plays as medic to gimme one.

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by BenioX

Weird, I found commando perfect class to multiclass medic. The loadout of SCAR/FNfal ACOG/MP5 or MP7 being great, although if so then I always have to start as medic to get the medigun or ask someone who plays as medic to gimme one.

That's true. SCAR+2nd mando weapon leaves enough room for a medic gun. However commandos should be (assuming a boxed room) halfway through the team, facing forward and ready to shoot single zeds or help finish off zeds.

Demos should be at the back of the team (where they can see the entire team without turning too much) and aren't expected to be shooting as much as a commando is, so they can spend the intervening time shooting their friends in the back with medic darts.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

That's true. SCAR+2nd mando weapon leaves enough room for a medic gun. However commandos should be (assuming a boxed room) halfway through the team, facing forward and ready to shoot single zeds or help finish off zeds.

Demos should be at the back of the team (where they can see the entire team without turning too much) and aren't expected to be shooting as much as a commando is, so they can spend the intervening time shooting their friends in the back with medic darts.

I disagree with you. A line of supports on front line, commandos right behind, then demos. Commando doesnt do as much damage as Supports, and is supposed to clear trash ONLY unless scrake/FP is too close and there is no trash to handle. The heals are mostly for supports who are in the front, sometimes demo if he gets unfortunate husk fireball hitting his explosives.

[Althamus]

Originally Posted by BenioX

A line of supports on front line, commandos right behind, then demos.

Surely that's very similar to my suggestion of commandos going halfway through the team?
Also, in both our descriptions, demos will be able to see the entirety of the team all the time, whereas commandos will need to either tab or turn to see everyone's health bars, which I would've said would've given demos the edge over knowing everyone's HPs at any point in time. Plus, a demo can heal his team without turning around and losing sight of the front line. I know the commando would only have to turn around for a couple of seconds to shoot darts back at the demo/sharps, but a lot can happen in a couple of seconds.

Also, you say commandos should clear trash only, but that's like 95% of the specimens :P If the commandos aim for headshots, they can take out husks and sirens as well, (and dependant on team, that's an OK strategy. Obviously not quite so good if you have a sharp with Xbow waiting for them, as you're just wasting bullets etc etc).
But if you assume they can kill anything bar FPs and Sc, at, what, 300 zeds a wave? And you can kill everything except ~4 FPs and ~10 sc? That's a lot of being busy :P

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by Althamus

Surely that's very similar to my suggestion of commandos going halfway through the team?
Also, in both our descriptions, demos will be able to see the entirety of the team all the time, whereas commandos will need to either tab or turn to see everyone's health bars, which I would've said would've given demos the edge over knowing everyone's HPs at any point in time. Plus, a demo can heal his team without turning around and losing sight of the front line. I know the commando would only have to turn around for a couple of seconds to shoot darts back at the demo/sharps, but a lot can happen in a couple of seconds.

Also, you say commandos should clear trash only, but that's like 95% of the specimens :P If the commandos aim for headshots, they can take out husks and sirens as well, (and dependant on team, that's an OK strategy. Obviously not quite so good if you have a sharp with Xbow waiting for them, as you're just wasting bullets etc etc).
But if you assume they can kill anything bar FPs and Sc, at, what, 300 zeds a wave? And you can kill everything except ~4 FPs and ~10 sc? That's a lot of being busy :P

Okay, first of all - it's easier to heal if people are spread. Imagine everyone stands in line (happens alot on tight maps) and you are demo, and want to heal the one on very front. How would you manage it? You'd have to walk on side and get as close as possible to be even able to hit because someone is standing in way, and it's mostly commando (middle line). Commando though, as he is in middle, would have it alot easier.
Now, I agree most of em are trash, but remember they don't come one after one instantly, there are "breaks", plus supports also can take on trash meanwhile you heal others in the worst case. Commando is just a little helper of supports, and giving him medic weapons also you make him huge credit to team. Although, I'd be honest, I rather dual MK23 and shoot as many as possible rather than heal everytime someone is hurt