Tripwire Interactive Forums

Go Back   Tripwire Interactive Forums > Red Orchestra 2 / Rising Storm Forums > RO2/RS General > Ideas and Suggestions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Falkenhorst's Avatar
Falkenhorst Falkenhorst is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 241
Default If there is ever another RO game

Remember RO is a niche game. It will not compete with the bigger names and will not attract players from them. RO is a game for people looking for a realistic WWII FPS without any gimmicks.

Things that don't belong:

1. Unlocks
2. Battle chatter
3. Voices that are in anything other than German or Russian.
4. Moral systems
5. Prototype weapons
6. Different game types. RO only needs one.

Stick to what made the mod and RO:O great. Full ballistics model, realistic damage, iron sights, free-aim, weapon handling, movement speeds, large open maps and vehicles.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:20 PM
ropeadope ropeadope is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 61
Default

If there is ever another RO game developed by TWI, I will wait at least 6 months after release until purchasing.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:43 PM
melipone's Avatar
melipone melipone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,627
Default

Personally I think its a mistake to rule out everything just because it didn't work in this instance. The unlock system could have been done a lot better. If we had the Hero system as originally envisioned and with a more "sidegrade" style unlock system rather than straight upgrades it could have been fine. They could have done cosmetic unlocks too. Straight stat upgrades is also not a good idea for the game type imo..uniform/model changes is good though

Battle chatter is fine, but I just don't like the cartoony sound of the voices and some quirks with talking at bad or unlikely moments. Native is much better imo, try it in beta

Moral system is alright, its a bit overdone though for me

Prototypes for heroes or 1 guy per team would be fine imo, as long as they weren't OP

Different game types are fine, its just that there aren't enough players to have servers with too many different game modes. Countdown can be fun, and can be completely awful depending on the map or objective you're fighting over. It could be more seamless and less jarring with the spawning and delay between objectives and constant team swapping. A lot of the objectives were too small on some maps like FallenFighters or Barracks. Spartanovka was good though imo. People initial impressions of Countdown were made on FallenFighters, just because of map voting issues would always make that map come on for the first few weeks, and you would fight over 1 small objective with nade spam right at the start. It just wasn't fun and gave people a bad impression of the game mode, so they went back to Territory

I think a straight CS type game mode could work, even with just bolts only or something like that, instagib style.

RO2 just didn't get it right in a bunch of areas, but it could definitely reach a bigger audience than Ostfront while still retaining the aspects that made it fun. I still think that even without half the stuff they put into RO2 they could have done better than they have now, just by targetting the same sort of players as Ostfront (not literally the same players, just people with similar tastes). RO1 was in no way uber hardcore anyway, it was very accessible realism.

I have a feeling this is the last RO game though, sadly. Theres a lot of room for interpretation when it comes to "what went wrong" with RO2, and I expect something you could assume would be that RO couldn't be fun for anything but a small niche, but RO2 never actually released as a popular RO game anyway so we will probably just never know its true potential. I just don't think TWI will have the energy to do another, for players they may not actually want to develop for if they will just turn around and hate their work. I think you have to make the most of RO2 and any future mods and maybe look forward to Killing Floor 2 for the next TWI game. I doubt RO3 could ever have the hype and build up of RO2, just because people won't have as much interest as they did for RO2. There are a LOT of players, whole clans and communities who wrote RO2 off shortly after release and may never have interest in it again
__________________


Last edited by melipone; 04-25-2012 at 08:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:50 AM
Cpt-Praxius's Avatar
Cpt-Praxius Cpt-Praxius is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canadian in Australia
Posts: 3,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkenhorst View Post
Remember RO is a niche game. It will not compete with the bigger names and will not attract players from them. RO is a game for people looking for a realistic WWII FPS without any gimmicks.

Things that don't belong:

1. Unlocks
2. Battle chatter
3. Voices that are in anything other than German or Russian.
4. Moral systems
5. Prototype weapons
6. Different game types. RO only needs one.

Stick to what made the mod and RO:O great. Full ballistics model, realistic damage, iron sights, free-aim, weapon handling, movement speeds, large open maps and vehicles.
Well that's your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:17 AM
Golf33 Golf33 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 922
Default

I don't really agree. Some of those features could have been great if the implementation had been more consistent.

Stat boosts and straight upgrades to weapons probably can't ever work in this type of game.

Prototype weapons - ok with appropriate rarity.

Different game types - not a problem. I quite enjoy Countdown and occasionally even Firefight. A plant / defuse satchel charge game might be ok too. The trick is to balance dev time against the possible popularity of any new mode, to avoid wasted effort.

Morale systems - the hero system for suppression bonuses is fine, as is a squad leader/commander bonus. People do perform better when the boss is watching. If you mean the suppression system as a whole, it's essential to realistic gameplay and if anything could be stronger (as in DH).

Battle chatter is also ok - it just needs some tweaking so your avatar doesn't say "he got me"when you take fall damage, or "I've got him pinned" when you shoot an enemy through the head with the second round of a burst.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:29 AM
Extension7's Avatar
Extension7 Extension7 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 1,766
Default

Wait OP are you implying that since RO1 is a niche game that it should remain that way?

That they shouldn't expand and implement new features, systems, and gamemodes that will attract more crowds of people?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-26-2012, 05:46 AM
feldmarschall feldmarschall is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingdom of Bavaria
Posts: 370
Default

Tell me: where are these crowds now?


TWI broke with
-the tank fans, two silly tanks and one boring map are just not enough + due to the unnecessary tank animations, noone will ever bring more tanks into the game

-the RO fans that stood at their side sometimes since the mod times, by creating not the RO they wanted

-the realism fans by creating a game with unrealistic MG sway and a lack of realism even in the "Realism" mode

-the normal player by having until now only 10 boring maps to offer

-the clans by only supporting Wondows servers, by giving them a bad game and because the ladder is dead

-the action COD gamers by bringing a game that was too realistic for them (and a crosshair won't change this, this game just wasn't made for COD style)


SO: tell me, who do they want to attract?
They failed on all fronts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:07 AM
Andrew Blake's Avatar
Andrew Blake Andrew Blake is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 680
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Praxius View Post
Well that's your opinion.
Lol, indeed.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:11 AM
hekuball's Avatar
hekuball hekuball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 523
Default

old whine anyone..??
__________________
In-game name: burt
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:22 AM
Joseph-Porta's Avatar
Joseph-Porta Joseph-Porta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Norway
Posts: 407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkenhorst View Post
Remember RO is a niche game. It will not compete with the bigger names and will not attract players from them. RO is a game for people looking for a realistic WWII FPS without any gimmicks.

Things that don't belong:

1. Unlocks
2. Battle chatter
3. Voices that are in anything other than German or Russian.
4. Moral systems
5. Prototype weapons
6. Different game types. RO only needs one.

Stick to what made the mod and RO:O great. Full ballistics model, realistic damage, iron sights, free-aim, weapon handling, movement speeds, large open maps and vehicles.
Its your opinion, I for once like them all. Except for the accented english voices.
__________________

Scoped G41 with Bayonet and the automatic C96 with buttstock.. Nothing beats it.

And yes, its me.. and my 'ol man somewhere outside Arnhem in the signature.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:47 AM
defektive's Avatar
defektive defektive is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 663
Default

I'm pretty sure that there will not be an RO3 from TWI. (This does not rule out a spiritual successor developed by someone else but it would be rather unlikely.) Perhaps In Country and/or Rising Storm will pull a rabbit out of the hat.
__________________
defekt
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:06 AM
Vyllis's Avatar
Vyllis Vyllis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Versailles, France
Posts: 595
Default

Well, the answer is: no.
And i formerly suggest you to not wait for RO3.

Tripwire is no more a small Indie Studio. Now, large crowd and common gameplay is the way to go for them. Business business.

There is Jackboot game from some of the ex DH devs. But i actually don't expect to much from them.

Myself, i think i will finally and unfortunately completely switch to the Arma series. I prefer clunky game play than streaks and unlocks.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:03 AM
barakas's Avatar
barakas barakas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Praxius View Post
Well that's your opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Cyper Cyper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,276
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyllis View Post
Well, the answer is: no.
And i formerly suggest you to not wait for RO3.

Tripwire is no more a small Indie Studio. Now, large crowd and common gameplay is the way to go for them. Business business.

There is Jackboot game from some of the ex DH devs. But i actually don't expect to much from them.

Myself, i think i will finally and unfortunately completely switch to the Arma series. I prefer clunky game play than streaks and unlocks.
Agreed.

There is also invasion '44 which might be something.
__________________
''Much good work is lost for the lack of a little more.''
- Edward H. Harriman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Penguin View Post
I would rather blowtorch my nipples off than play Action Mode.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-26-2012, 11:53 AM
LordSteve LordSteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 341
Default

This game is the fail of the year!!!
TWI has made a big mistake, not listening to the Community (Already Alphatesters complainted about the changes in gameplay) and trying to be sexy for the Cod Generation.
What Ro1 made famous was that is was unique in gameplay. May not everything was in a sense realistic and perfect, but the whole package made the game something special compared to other shooters. When i first played Red Orchestra 1 i was impressed how a game could satisfy me in such a way. It was so cool to change firemodes and the mg barrel, to attach Bayos, to employ mgs, the whole battlefield feeling (sounds of dying soldiers arround you, heavy arty strikes, cracking bullets, heavy surpression , deadly tanks, tracers of heavy mg fire).
Ro2 doesnt give me nothing of those feelings (not because the missing content), its just another stereotypical 0815 shooter like 1000 of other shooters on the market.
Its like Iron Maiden decides one day to play Pop.

Last edited by LordSteve; 04-26-2012 at 11:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:30 PM
pepihoh pepihoh is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Croatia
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falkenhorst View Post
Remember RO is a niche game. It will not compete with the bigger names and will not attract players from them. RO is a game for people looking for a realistic WWII FPS without any gimmicks.

Things that don't belong:

1. Unlocks
2. Battle chatter
3. Voices that are in anything other than German or Russian.
4. Moral systems
5. Prototype weapons
6. Different game types. RO only needs one.

Stick to what made the mod and RO:O great. Full ballistics model, realistic damage, iron sights, free-aim, weapon handling, movement speeds, large open maps and vehicles.
Oh please tell me, what is wrong with different game modes and battle chatter?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-26-2012, 12:42 PM
LordSteve LordSteve is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 341
Default

Ro1 didnt needed 1000 of different gameplaytypes, when i played it for the first time it was hard compared to other shooters. But I have improved and earned some skills during time of playing this game. Adding 1000 of different gameplaytypes splits up the small community. Ro needs only one gameplaytype !
Battle Chatters sounds ridiculous arcadsish. I hate how childish it sounds, it doesnt implement battlefieldfeeling.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:32 PM
Grobut's Avatar
Grobut Grobut is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 3,618
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
Wait OP are you implying that since RO1 is a niche game that it should remain that way?

That they shouldn't expand and implement new features, systems, and gamemodes that will attract more crowds of people?
Yes, because they can't attract the mainstream to RO anyway, all they can do by attempting that is drive away the RO fans.

RO is simply never going to work as a mainstream game, it offers the mainstream nothing they want that they aren't already getting elswhere, by games that does it even better and on much larger budgets.

RO will never be a contender, even if they sell out the title 100% and make it about Americans fighting Terrorists in a modern warfare setting, which is what the mainstream thinks is "cool" right now, even then, they woulden't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Others already tried that, like MoH:Tier1 and Homefront, and what happened to those games?

When it comes to arcade military shooters, there is no competing with CoD or BF, those games are not just the most popular, they have become institutions, just like WOW did for the MMO scene, and CS once did for the modding scene, and nothing can hope to compete with that, absolutely nothing, bigger and richer companies than TWI have tried and failed (that includes EA! They poured hundreds of millions into MoH:Tier1, and it failed!), and they did so with games that were far better suited to the attempt than RO would ever be.

You want to succeed with a military shooter today? Then you have to aim it at the players who do not play CoD and/or BF, you have to go to the niches, just like RO used to do, and the "Realism" niche is probably the biggest niche they can aim the game at (it's both reasonably big, and is most certainly not getting what it wants from CoD and BF), and above all, you need to offer something unique that the niche wants.

It'll never become a cash-cow like CoD when you aim at a niche, but you will make money, whereas if you try to fish from the same lake as CoD and BF, you'll just get raped by them.


That's not to say TWI can't or shoulden't try to expand and make money on more mainstream titles, afterall it's good to have a cash-cow to keep the company funded, it will not only make you money but also give you the financial freedom to make more risky or low-yield games that you are passionate about making, but RO is not the cash-cow and never will be, KF is, and possibly they will a new IP aswell down the line, RO is the one they should make because they care.

And if TWI nolonger cares enough to make a good RO game if it doesen't make them rich, then they should stop making RO games and just continue making mainstream bubblegum titles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Kashash Kashash is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt-Praxius View Post
Well that's your opinion.
Falkenhorst would give you reps for life if I only could (not that these stupid symbols even matter at all, it's more of a metaphor for one's benevolence)

Cpt-Praxius I really don't mean to offend and I have always admired your very noble, clever, compelling and exceptional asseverations in your posts. But the fact that so many people have made you red just SEEM to show how parasitic are your objections. Not saying that are wrong beacuse everyone has their own opinion as you've said but just extremely antagonistic to us "the more tactical than arcadish proponents" even though bizarrely you've been RO player or even RO mod player just as we were. It feels like as if you were one of those internet soldiers that are paid to defend at all cost the influential people's side with well elaborated statements.
I don't know if that's truth or not, but one thing I know that the reputation is made by the "real" people.

^^^^ Very well made post Grobut. Just 100% truth. TWI has made a huge mistake, and now they're just simmering in their own fallacy.

Last edited by Kashash; 04-26-2012 at 07:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-26-2012, 10:17 PM
melipone's Avatar
melipone melipone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,627
Default

Games like RO should try to show COD/BF players what they're missing out on, but not sacrifice anything gameplay-wise towards that end. I don't think people are necessarily born realism fans, its something you acquire after getting bored of other games. For me it is anyway, I mean I came from a HL mod (cs/tfc/DoD)/COD UO background myself and don't really have much interest in realism games beyond Red Orchestra.

I think you should tempt players from other games but do it in a classy way. Getting people to at least try the game type is important though so I don't see a problem with at least offering similar sorts of things as games people are used to nowadays. You can do that without sacrificing too much in the gameplay department at all, but things like audio, graphics, unlocks, progression, game modes are fine imo depending on the implementation. Not everyone may like it, but you should at least make the attempt to get people to try something new, and the ones who do like it will be hooked and be on board for future games too. Theres nothing wrong with turning people away if its not for them..getting them to try it is all thats important and to offer a unique experience to the ones who do

Niche doesn't mean "small" to me, its like having a unique selling point. RO is about accessible tactical realism, and thats what they should offer and nothing more. If they nail that and then advertise it as such, while showing whats cool about the game style and not being disingenuous about it all then they would do well imo. RO2 focussed a bit too much on gimmicks and trying to blend into the mainstream FPS market with weaker gameplay, when their USP should have been what people were actually interested in them for in the first place: setting themselves apart from other companies in not only their gameplay but in their approach to customers. If they wanted to make a mainstream shooter then they should never have experimented in that way with a name like RO
__________________


Last edited by melipone; 04-26-2012 at 10:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 - 2014, Tripwire Interactive, LLC