[Mutator] Operation Dark Cell

[Olivier]

Originally Posted by WaloWizard

Well that says it all. Sounds like the TWI we all love and support are actually a mean bunch of mutha stickers.

But thank you for the information Olivier, its really appreciated mate.

They don't simply sound, some employees really are a bunch of...

But anyway, I have to complete this production and my render is over. Laters (>o.o)>

[Gregs2k2]

Keep it civil guys or the thread will be locked. There are mods around, we just don't frequent the forums 24/7.

One and only warning.

Cheers.

[BenioX]

Originally Posted by WaloWizard

I thought Zips was still around. He was the one that slapped me with an infraction before I got banned. But then again it was Yoshiro who dropped the final hammer to ban me.

TO me Zips did both infraction and ban.

[Hemi]

Modifications are usually made by people with jobs and "normal" lives. So they can never be 100% perfect. Some peoples standards are just higher, so they will not always like the mods....

The way they express this is just taste really, you either like it or don't as a modder. You can't change their minds even if you tried. They don't need to be polite and kiss our asses, some people just show how they feel about a mod differently. Negative or positive.

I make mods for the players on our servers, not for these boards. They are ultimately the ones that need to like the mod, since they play the game more then I do. These boards are fun just to hop in once in a while, nothing more really...

[WaloWizard]

Originally Posted by thelegacyman

Swiftly moving on. Say Hunter did have a change of heart and did make a return to complete his mods, which could realistically happen. Would you guys want him to? Or more importantly, do you think he even would now after seeing the handbags flying a few pages back?

Hunter or not, of course I'd like to see the RE mod and troopers get released. Who wouldn't want free stuff right?

Do I think he'll comeback... I'm pretty dead on that Hunter left because of the politics involved in making a mod for KF.

I think the terms "respect" and "support" are being thrown around and are being misunderstood.

I dont think the feeling was ever, "I want people to respect my work and kiss my *** for it" Nor was it "I want a gazillion views and tons of people posting lovely messages supporting me"

It boils down to this:

The issue isn't the one person being out of line, its that the one person is being allowed to be out of line.

I'm not stating this as fact, but I have a good feeling that SMIFF was the catalyst in Hunters departure. SMIFF bated Hunter for no reason at all but for his own satisfaction. SMIFF was allowed to do that. Its not the fact SMIFF did it, its the fact he was allowed to do it with no consequences.

Then Hunter reacted and clearly wasn't amused with the fallout. He was branded a kid for taking his bat and ball and walking as brainbox so nicely pointed out earlier.

Reality is, Hunter wasn't losing anything, the real losers were TWI for not dealing with it and losing someone who supported their game.

On that occasion Hunter did return to release KF Zombies. But that was over shadowed by the fact he left and was branded weak and a drama queen in many eyes.

Hunter builds and builds the hype for Troopers and the RE Mod. Hell look at the videos and pictures he posted, lots of work was put in to both mods.

But... still... that niggle in the back of his head was there. SMIFF's actions left a lasting effect on the mood of Hunter. After months of hard work, Hunter has to drop off of the radar for medical reasons. During this time he see's sense. He's wasting time supporting a game for a game company that doesn't give two birds.

Present day, Hunter is gone, his mods went with him, and the the reaction he gets from the same person who started it all... SMIFF... calls him a baby.

And he is allowed to do that with no consequences. Thus completing the cycle of life, living and death. All tainted at somepoint by the same poison.

And who are the real losers? Sure me and you and everyone else wont get to play his mods. But TWI have lost someone who was working on what quite possibly would have been the biggest mod that KF had seen. For years people have wanted Resident Evil put into Killing Floor, hell people have already made the maps for it.

If you want to cast the finger of blame, it points in TWI's direction for their lack of "Support". They've failed me, you, everyone who plays their game and they've failed hunter. And for what? Because they didn't have the decency to show a simple good will gesture by removing the post of member who was clearly in the wrong.

One tiny little event many many months ago has caused the downfall of potentially the biggest mod for KF.

The biggest losers are TWI. They lose a valuable asset in Hunter.

It started with SMIFF and today, it Ended with SMIFF.

So to get to my point, after todays display, you can put your life on the table and guarantee Hunter will never return to release his work. And you can damn well be sure he wont pass it on to anyone.

Hunter doesn't lose anything. He can play his Resident Evil mod all day long and enjoy it twice as much knowing he's given the big stick it up your arse to TWI.

Thats why I support the guy so much. His farewell post was simple, he was smart, he didnt name names, but he knew he didnt have to.

Hope that answers your question.

TWI Lose, and because they lose, we lose, and because we lose, TWI lose even more.

As for SMIFF... well there are a billion SMIFF's around the world. He himself isn't important to the conclusion, he was just in the right place at the right time, if it wasn't SMIFF, it would have been someone else, and we would still be in the same place.

But in no means think bad of Hunter. He did what was right by him. And again, he doesn't lose anything, he has the mod to play, we dont. Its illogical to say Hunter is the problem here.

And to further cement my theory. Think about what Olivier said earlier. TWI was banning people for saying RO2 was aload of crap. How is it, TWI find themselves banning people for disrespecting their work. But if Hunter or any other modder turns around and complains that their work is being disrespected... its no big deal, its not even remotely big enough to even take a look at. Double Standards.

And TWI should put up with the slanders, they're getting paid millions for it. Hunter and the modders get paid nothing for their hard work. And they're expected to put up with abuse. Pff pull me another chord.

TWI should be offering support to modders in every direction they can, modders are keeping their games alive. Instead Hunter got zero support of any kind from TWI. This is based on the threads of course. But I find it highly unlikely anything went on behind the scenes.

Man I have talked and talked.

I think you get my point.

Blame finger -----> TWI.

Nothing to do with SMIFF, nothing to do with the Fossils, nothing to with the the community.

It all points to TWI. Their lack of community effort has caused this series of events.

And dont tell me they didn't have the time to deal with it, they're quick enough on the ball when they're squeezin a few more quid out of your pocket on character packs. Its like insta-post then.


Thank you, I'm WaloWizard, I'm here until TWI dont want me to be here

[Undedd Jester]

Am I correct in thinking that the only reason Hunter isn't here and working on/posting his mods is because he is recovering from surgery? Where the heck has all this "TWI offer no support to their mod community, and thats why Hunter left" stuff come from?

TWI give more support to their mod community than almost any other game company out there, for example if you look at Red Orchestra 2 they recruited the best modders from their community for a joint project to build almost an entire new game onto RO.

The big problem TWI have is they are only a small company. They don't have hundreds of employees on their payroll to handle every little issue and request that people come out with. Game developers have some of the biggest work loads of all careers, second maybe to doctors. Long hours, late nights, few days off, its not uncommon for them to have to work 60-70 hours a week to meet a deadline. Thats just the way the industry is.

How do you think character packs are made? Just whipped up on Paint and bunged into the game? There is way more to it than that. Time and effort has to be put aside in order to develope these new character skins. Once they are complete it is straight onto the next plan of the business to generate money. Given the amount of stuff they have given us just on KF alone, evewn when ignoring all the work they have done on RO2, it is pretty clear that they have alot on their plate.

So to sit there in your PC chair merrily spending your time browsing a forum for your own amusement, berating TWI for something that simply isn't their fault, nor has anything really to do with them, is a tad off. Especially when they have done way more for us (the client) than the likes of many mainstream developers such as EA, THQ, or Microsoft.

At the end of the day it isn't TWI's job to settle petty squabbles between people.

[WaloWizard]

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

Am I correct in thinking that the only reason Hunter isn't here and working on/posting his mods is because he is recovering from surgery? Where the heck has all this "TWI offer no support to their mod community, and thats why Hunter left" stuff come from?

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=77389

No one knows why he really left. He never really gave a real reason. Its all speculation.

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

TWI give more support to their mod community than almost any other game company out there, for example if you look at Red Orchestra 2 they recruited the best modders from their community for a joint project to build almost an entire new game onto RO.

If thats true, then thats quite comical. TWI get a load of modders to do the hard work and then cash in on it for themselves. Yeah real noble.

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

The big problem TWI have is they are only a small company. They don't have hundreds of employees on their payroll to handle every little issue and request that people come out with. Game developers have some of the biggest work loads of all careers, second maybe to doctors. Long hours, late nights, few days off, its not uncommon for them to have to work 60-70 hours a week to meet a deadline. Thats just the way the industry is.

The big problem TWI have is they're being fueled like every other company are being fueled. Greed. They dont give two fig rolls. If you stopped giving them money, they'd drop you in a hearbeat. As for comparing a game developer to a doctor... no... just no.

Originally Posted by Undedd Jester

So to sit there in your PC chair while you merrily spend your time browsing a forum for your own amusement, berating TWI for something that simply isn't their fault, nor has anything really to do with them, is a tad off. Especially when they have done way more for us (the client) than the likes of many mainstream developers such as EA, THQ, or Microsoft.

Well... as a common trend in these forums, I'm gunna say its my own opinion and then that should just be that. As if you say that, you get auto free'd from any consequences. But no... I made a theory based on Hunters motives. I dont think it was out of line, it was pretty damn good if i'm honest.

TWI are small, they need the clients more than EA do. But dont be taken in by a few character packs here and there. TWI will cut this community loose if it stops making them money. Simple as that.

I dont know what their marketing strategy is, but its poor at best at this stage.

They boast about KF selling a million copies. They should look and see what made KF sell a million copies. I'll put my 100 down it aint because of TWI's kind hearted contributions.

They should take a leaf out of TGNs book. When it was TBF, all the proper mods got pride of place on their front page. It gave something back to the modders. Abit of recognition. What do TWI give to modders? Nothing unless they can bank some cash off of it.

[Undedd Jester]

Quote war. Yay.

Originally Posted by WaloWizard

No one knows why he really left. He never really gave a real reason. Its all speculation.

So your immediate assumption is he blames TWI? Not the people who cut his mods down? I'm not protecting anyone, I just don't understand why you have this "Up yours TWI attitude". You are basing your arguement on water thin evidence.

If thats true, then thats quite comical. TWI get a load of modders to do the hard work and then cash in on it for themselves. Yeah real noble.

Do some research. Darkest Hour and Mare Nostrum were 2 huge mods for Red Orchestra 1, and they were both released free to add onto the game.

For RO2 they tried a new experiement where their "mod" team were to make a mod. I quote Ramm almost exactly here "If it is a mod of really good quality, we'll take it in house, polish it up and release it as a new expansion to the game. If its only kinda good, we'll simply release it as a free mod." Whether or not the mod team would get a share of the profits wasn't the base of the converstaion so I don't know one way or the other. However given the rewards they have given out for other modders I'd assume the modders would get a share.

Greed. They dont give two fig rolls. If you stopped giving them money, they'd drop you in a hearbeat.

Well I don't know where you are getting that from. Red Orchestra got tonnes of free updates for 5 years. Killng Floor has had 3 major updates for free across 3 years, with a new perk, over half a dozen new maps, double the weapon count, a beta where they actively involved the community to help the games balance, how much stuff do you actually want for free? Furthermore I'd hardly call £1 for a character pack a rip off.

As for comparing a game developer to a doctor... no... just no.

Doctors working hours, pay attention. I've worked in game retail for 5 years mate, my dad is a software engineer. Game developers have ludicrous deadlines to meet, and that often means they have to put in an insane amount of work.

But no... I made a theory based on Hunters motives. I dont think it was out of line, it was pretty damn good if i'm honest.

Well it was out of line. You have jumped to conclusions, put words in other peoples mouths just so you can take a dig at TWI. Its your opinion sure, but you are not being fair.

They boast about KF selling a million copies. They should look and see what made KF sell a million copies. I'll put my 100 down it aint because of TWI's kind hearted contributions.

They noticed KF was coming up to its millionth sales so they did a special event for it and made new content for the game. Free content. They also put a massive discount on the game for new players to buy, something they do regularly for new/seasonal events.

They should take a leaf out of TGNs book. When it was TBF, all the proper mods got pride of place on their front page. It gave something back to the modders. Abit of recognition. What do TWI give to modders? Nothing unless they can bank some cash off of it.

Sigh. TWI ran a competition a while back where mappers entered a competition to have their maps added to the game. KF-Departed, KF-Waterworks and KF-Icebreaker are 3 of these maps. The winners got credited with winning and also got a cash prize. I think Icebreakers/Waterworks maker Damien Laurent won £10'000 overall.




Honestly, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You're either a spoiled, ungrateful little worm, or you're a moronic jerk who is just trying to get a rise out of people. Please, just stop now.

[halbridious]

Jester is right - TWI is a company - YEA THEY NEED TO MAKE MONEY.
but they cough up content like crazy compared to most developers. Look at any EA/Activision release in comparison - KF releases several guns and some zed skins for free, along with awesom char packs for a pittance. EA charges 5$ for some cars in Need for Speed...

And developers put in hours. alot of hours. deadlines are a b***h, and because of the amount of hype put in, you can't delay without major PR faceloss, and you can't release anything but the best because people complain about "beta" releases...

Walo... So far your pointing fingers EVERYWHERE taking a very Knightly tone... SMIFF annoys the hell outta me. But you just as much. And while i'd love hunter to come back or release his stuff, the mod "industry" "hobby" whatever is a objective one - people comment, and its not always nice. If you can't take it, don't subject yourself to it.

The thing I don't get is why trolls are so successful in forums - its the honest criticism that should be hard to take, no the stupid trashtalk...

[slavek]

I'm just going to step and and say this conversation needs to be defused immediately. Gregs already handed out the warning, there are mods still around and trash talk is not going to be accepted. Any "Speculation" perhaps should be discussed in a new thread or via private message. After all, Hunter is recovering from surgery, the least we can do is give his thread some respect instead of blowing it up with an argument war.

[Infernalslayer]

Originally Posted by slavek

I'm just going to step and and say this conversation needs to be defused immediately. Gregs already handed out the warning, there are mods still around and trash talk is not going to be accepted. Any "Speculation" perhaps should be discussed in a new thread or via private message. After all, Hunter is recovering from surgery, the least we can do is give his thread some respect instead of blowing it up with an argument war.

I think this covers up everything

[halbridious]

just to clear that up - he is likely still not 100%, but he was gone for months recovering... you don't get to claim recovery at this point unless its like, brain damage or paralysis - he decided he wanted to be done with this community, a good portion of that decision, as he vocalized, was him being fed up with underapreciation and poor community.

[Gregs2k2]

Thread locked. I'm keeping a close eye on who's stirring things up around here, next i'll be handing out infractions/bans.

I'm all for healthy discussions, it's just sad to see that some people can't let things go and continue to dig, trying to get a rise out of individuals.