WASD -Tank Turret Control

[wake_up]

Originally Posted by [TW]Ramm-Jaeger

First off, what armor bugs? Second, as someone pointed out the problem is that ASDW is used for commands, not that it's an engine limitation to implement. It will require a decent amount of work to implement however.

I think what they talk about, is the strange behavior of the armor that
you can see sometimes, mostly when the pings are higher.
I noticed, that when only one player has a ping over 200, every hit from
a tank round or AT rifle causes a gun or turret ring damage, not matter
where they hit you.
And tanks are reacting strange to hits. A AP round that hits the PzIV´s
front plate at the drivers position with 45° blows up the whole tank.
But a hit with 90° at the side armore, directly under the turret, don´t
causes serious damage - you can shoot 5 rounds and nothing happens.
And when you shot a tanks front plate with the AT rifle at 100m,
i causes damage, but when you´re 5m away and shot in the side,
you can fire all 15 rounds, you can see the impacts, but nothing happens.
Its i bit weird.

My optinion at WASD vs Mouse is, that mouse control is ok, but to slow.
Specially the T34s periscope is extremely slow. How about speeding the
turrets turning speed up, while pressing the sprint/breath button?
(= hydraulic / eletrcic turret movement)

[MarioBava]

Originally Posted by BrausePaul

Mouse turret control is well implemented
First time I have missed the WASD turret control but now I like it...

...but the extreme mouse sliding for a 90 or 180 degree turn is very annoying

so here my suggestion

The gunner view should be divided into 3 areas left, center and right.(image below)
The center should work like currently ingame (crosshair follows a small mouse cursor)
If you move the mouse cursor into left area - the cursor will change to a left pointing arrow and the turret will rotate left permanently - opposit the same

the outer areas are also the transition to electric(T-34) or hydraulic(PzIV) turret rotation

Nice idea. I like the mouse turret control also, but this idea would improve it! I don't have a lot of trouble tracking the cursor ahead of the center to keep the turret rotating, but some do.

[MarioBava]

Originally Posted by Kleist

And it´s very boring to roll the mouse for a 360° turret rotation, it´s so much better with the WASD Control of RO:Ost

I don't get this "it's very boring" point. You're saying that actively moving the mouse is more boring than holding a key down???

Seriously?

[Kleist]

Originally Posted by MarioBava

I don't get this "it's very boring" point. You're saying that actively moving the mouse is more boring than holding a key down???

Seriously?

Yes!!!

[Raneman]

Originally Posted by Kleist

Yes!!!

Seconded

[Mike_Nomad]

Mario,

"Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

You'll never win this one.

[OldRavenNL]

I like the controls as they are.. but would really like to see some way to rotate the turret left to right with the arrow keys.

I know it's hard to do with asdw because they are for commands.

I like the controls in T34 vs Tiger.. there you can also rotate the turret with keys, and do fine aiming with the mouse.

When I am in the commander turret It's annoying I cannot order my gunner to rotate the turret.

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kleist

General suggestion for every RO2 mode: (but a must have for the RO 2:Classic mode

There is, it's the arrow keys (below the pageup/ddownkey "island"). Problem is, it's only full speed, so no subtle controls like in ROOST.

[Cwivey]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

There is, it's the arrow keys (below the pageup/ddownkey "island"). Problem is, it's only full speed, so no subtle controls like in ROOST.

Hold shift to slow the rotation of the arrow keys?


I myslef like the mouse aiming, and I find both of it's speeds very usable, especially on the move, the slight movements for the slow gentle aiming with the guy winding them wheels, then large mouse movements for the Hydraulic / Electrical system.

[Kleist]

Originally Posted by Cwivey

Hold shift to slow the rotation of the arrow keys?


I myslef like the mouse aiming, and I find both of it's speeds very usable, especially on the move, the slight movements for the slow gentle aiming with the guy winding them wheels, then large mouse movements for the Hydraulic / Electrical system.

That´s sounds a little bit to complicated for me

I like the way i was able to control the tank in RO:Ost, that was perfect. It simply feels great for me.

[Proud_God]

The fact that with current RO2 mouse controls you can't look around without swinging a massive barrel around is enough to ditch it, IMO

[Cwivey]

Originally Posted by Proud_God

The fact that with current RO2 mouse controls you can't look around without swinging a massive barrel around is enough to ditch it, IMO

What do you mean? You can look around without moving the barrel of the gun. It works just like RO:OST, you have to move yourself away from the gunsight to look around, there's even a damned separate Periscope view which is DETACHED from the main gun so you can look around, with the zoomed in tank sight view without the main gun turning.

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by Cwivey

What do you mean? You can look around without moving the barrel of the gun. It works just like RO:OST, you have to move yourself away from the gunsight to look around, there's even a damned separate Periscope view which is DETACHED from the main gun so you can look around, with the zoomed in tank sight view without the main gun turning.

To clarify, the periscope is only available on the T-34 (scroll wheel out to inside turret view, then RMB). The Panzer IV, you need to use the cupola to look around, but don't get the periscope's magnification.

[Cwivey]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

To clarify, the periscope is only available on the T-34 (scroll wheel out to inside turret view, then RMB). The Panzer IV, you need to use the cupola to look around, but don't get the periscope's magnification.

How did the Panzer IV handle in RO:OST? I can't quite remeber if there was any separate views other than the open the hatch and gunsight.

[AtheistIII]

If I'm not completely wrong there was a cupola in RO:Ost too.

[Kleist]

Okay, i have play Gumrak today on the full beta server... and i really sure WASD is a must have for RO2.

Tanking isn´t what it was in RO1, in RO2 it feels so smoothy, like playing with a softgun, I can`t feel the steel beast.

The mouse control is so....
The sounds are...

And why the tank is jumping after every shot?
TigerPanzer - (Ãœbungsabgriff U. -Schiessen) - 1943 - YouTube
It´s a Tiger tank, but this doesn´t matter, its the same system like in a Panzer IV.
Look at 0:39 there is no jumping gun...
Thats a cold steel beast.

THat i can see my Crew is a good thing, and it bring me some atmosphere, but all other need a lot of work.

[Unus Offa, Unus Nex]

The mouse control issue is one of the main things that ruined tanking for me in RO2, it's simply way to unrealistic in both feel and speed because it doesn't demand coordination between up/down + left/right.

I was concerned about this even before the game got released after watching some pre-release footage and realizing that mouse control would be used for turret & gun control. Therefore I even made a poll, which sadly the devs overlooked despite the many voters: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=53090

WASD keys for turret rotation & gun elevation control is the only way to go, and the excuse that it can't be done because the WASD keys are used for driver commands is quite silly really; I mean do we really need to remind anyone how many keys a keyboard has ?

Simply use the arrow keys for driver commands or the numpad keys, what'ever, it's a pretty simple problem to solve.

[Mekhazzio]

Isn't the traverse on the Pz4 and T-34 controlled by a joystick-like electric analog input? The pseudo-stick mouse input is closer to that action than a digital input would be.

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by Mekhazzio

Isn't the traverse on the Pz4 and T-34 controlled by a joystick-like electric analog input? The pseudo-stick mouse input is closer to that action than a digital input would be.

Unfortunately not:
T-34/76 Model 1942:


Manual turret traverse wheel is the black thing on the far left, partially obscured. There's a powered turret traverse control in that area, in front of the manual wheel. Gun elevation control is below and to the right of the turret traverse. Very separate.

Panzer IV G:


^This is the elevation control on the left. ^this is the traverse motor on the bottom. Separate.

Even the Tiger tank had an electric/hydraulic traverse for the turret separate from the elevation control for the main gun. It's just how things were done back then.


WASD or arrow keys for the turret controls would be excellent. I'd even use them as an option and suffer through the handicap.

That said, a properly working armor system would be even better. Penetrations should almost always cause some damage or injury. A T-34's F-34 gun should not 'ping' off the Panzer IV's 50mm frontal turret armor, the Panzer IV's 75mm gun should not damage or destroy the T-34's frontal glacis plate so easily, and the PTRS under no circumstances should even scratch the T-34 from the hull front, hull sides, or turret front/sides. I appreciate every bit of tanking awesomeness TWI put into the vehicles, and it almost works perfectly, but the armor/penetration bugs are what make tanking frustrating.

[Mekhazzio]

Originally Posted by Nikita

Even the Tiger tank had an electric/hydraulic traverse for the turret separate from the elevation control for the main gun. It's just how things were done back then.

Well, yes, that's why I said that. I didn't mean "joystick-like" in that the actual input device was shaped like a stick, I meant in that it delivered a continuous, adjustable-magnitude input similar to a potentiometer. As in, something that's not even remotely similar in feel, effect or precision to digital keys.

I suppose I could see putting elevation on keys and leaving traverse on the pseudo-stick floating input. Keys aren't much like cranking a wheel, but that does at least confer an abstract version of the feel & precision difference between the traverse and elevation controls.

But yeah, the flawed armor modeling is a much bigger deal.