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  #3521  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:35 PM
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Well here in Belgium farms are quite small so putting a fence around them isn't much of a problem. Besides that no predators live here so most farms are surrounded by barbed or electrical wire.
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  #3522  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:56 PM
Viersbovsky Viersbovsky is offline
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
With all the hate directed at the US, I wonder how Europeans feel about the Swiss? As I understand it, they are required to bring home their service rifles. Oh the carnage....
There is a strong movement against that custom, as a lot of people use their service rifle to kill their spouses.
Of course, over here people who want to do that just buy guns on the black market or use other means. When someone wants to kill someone, he is always going to find a way, but having a gun at hand makes it easier.

My swiss uncle used his rifle to kill his cat when it pissed on his carpet once too often. That bastard didnīt even have the dignity to get it to animal care or try to sell it to someone else. As you see, there is a lot of misuse.

Last edited by Viersbovsky; 04-15-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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  #3523  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Floyd View Post
Gonna be a pretty long fence to cover even a small farm of 1,500 acres . And then you have free range laws in some states. Oh......the (typical) ignorance.....





I know you were joking......
Have smaller farms then.
Problem solved.
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  #3524  
Old 04-15-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Viersbovsky View Post
There is a strong movement against that custom, as a lot of people use their service rifle to kill their spouses.
Of course, over here people who want to do that just buy guns on the black market or use other means. When someone wants to kill someone, he is always going to find a way, but having a gun at hand makes it easier.

My swiss uncle used his rifle to kill his cat when it pissed on his carpet once too often. That bastard didnīt even have the dignity to get it to animal care or try to sell it to someone else.
Why did I read this with a schwarzenegger voice
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  #3525  
Old 04-15-2012, 02:00 PM
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@[-project.rattus-]
I've got no less than 3 pistols made from scratch by my father. They were built specifically for the sport of target shooting. They don't shoot ammunition conducive to killing. The only firearms we fired for the purpose of killing were during the Korean and Vietnam conflicts.

And yes, I was pointing out the hypocrisy. Especially in light of my comment to Heisenberg and taking into consideration the sports of hunting, sporting clays, skeet, pistol and rifle target shooting, etc. There are different cultures and different lifestyles and different life experiences at play here. I get perturbed at people (not directed at you, as I don't know your life story) who have never handled a firearm, or have never grown up in the wilderness, lived on a working ranch (and/or have never lived outside of a city for that matter), telling me that I do not need to own a firearm. By contrast, I did the college/fraternity drunk every weekend thing. Been there done that. So at least I feel I have some leg to stand on when I take on alcohol.
Well, as I, despite writing quite lengthily, haven't made myself absolutely clear: I don't actually want to ban guns. I personally don't have the need for one though. I just have to join in on arguments when people basically say that guns make living together safer.

And while you are no doubt senior to me, with me turning 30 this year, I too had the joy of growing up in a rural area, with loads of light farm work, and I too enjoy hikes and multiple day canoe trips through wilderness (which you can find in eastern europe still).
But then, in central europe, there are no pests or predators you'd have to fend off with guns, and the occassional rabid fox wasn't too much of a problem for the local hunters.
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  #3526  
Old 04-15-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
Why did I read this with a schwarzenegger voice
Because you're Austrian?

Civilian owned guns don't make society safer on the whole, statistically. On the contrary. I agree with that.
However, I also think that me owning a gun to protect my family makes my family safer!

I don't have to care about statistics about gun-violence against spouses because there is nothing my spouse could do that would make me want to shoot her (this includes improbable self-defense scenarios and the zombie apocalypse!). The ones I love are much, much more important to me than gun-violence statistics...

On the other hand I live in an area where there is virtually no danger that could feasibly be averted by owning or carrying guns so it's pretty much a non-issue for me either way. Lucky me.
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  #3527  
Old 04-15-2012, 07:25 PM
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As Americans we have the RIGHT to own and carry arms. When our country was founded it was of thier intent, to never let the united states get to a point where the government has more power than the people and the people have no means of protecting themselves, thier land, their familys and from our own government. Sadly this is exactly whats happening.

Sadly the majority of americans have been brainwashed by idiot politicians into thinking there needs to be more rules and more gun bans and the country will be a safer place. People think things like columbine will never happen again if there are no guns.

Wrong.

Things like that will still go on untill man stops walking this earth. Criminals and physcos will always be around and they will ALWAYS find a way to kill another person. Taking the guns out of the hands of law abiting citizens does not make the country safer or make crime rate go down. Infact in towns where almost everybody is a gun owner it has been shown that the number of murders and crimes is almost nonexistant. If you take the guns from all the good gun owners...who has the rest of the guns? the criminals. That criminal is going to break into your home and possibly kill you and you will absolutely have no way of protecting yourself from him.

A gun is nothing but a hunk of steel. Guns do NOT kill people. PEOPLE kill other PEOPLE. A gun is nothing more than a tool created by man.

Everybody should watch this video. Pro gun or not watch it:
Woman Testifies on Gun Control, A. Ishmael, Ishmael Ax - YouTube


This will be reality soon if things keep going the way theyre going:
Home Invasion gun fight - YouTube

Last edited by THunter; 04-15-2012 at 09:50 PM.
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  #3528  
Old 04-15-2012, 07:31 PM
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I can get behind what THunter said at the end of his post.

While I don't think there's that much need for guns amongst civilians at all, if someone dies due to your gun, it's your own ****ing fault.
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  #3529  
Old 04-15-2012, 07:43 PM
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Kill them home intruders Thunter, kill them all! Go and have a watch right now! See them eyes staring through your window? Kill 'em! They're everywhere!

Fear. Glad I live without it, no guns can protect you from your fears anyway. If a home intruder wants you dead you'd be dead without knowing anyway, probably in your sleep.
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  #3530  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Homuth View Post
Kill them home intruders Thunter, kill them all! Go and have a watch right now! See them eyes staring through your window? Kill 'em! They're everywhere!

Fear. Glad I live without it, no guns can protect you from your fears anyway. If a home intruder wants you dead you'd be dead without knowing anyway, probably in your sleep.
I do not live in fear because I own weapons. Anybody that sets foot inside my home and threatens my family's or my own life will be dead.

You call it fear, I call it being realistic and prepared.

I collect firearms. I have many. Its one of my hobbys. I buy them for enjoyment and the history connected to them, not for self defense. Many of my guns are ones some scumbag or gangbangers would love to get ahold of and use in other crimes or possibly in the murder of some unfortunate person. I acknowledge that. I do not advertise or show anybody my collection or draw attention to myself. But if somehow, the wrong person(s) find out I have guns, fact is theyre going to show up to my home armed. What am I supposed to do? Invite them inside?! Make them dinner?! No. Im going to defend my property and my family like any right minded person would do. Its a tripple win situation. I stay alive. Theyll be too dead to commit any more crimes and the taxpayers wont have to pay to keep that scumbag alive in jail for the rest of his miserable life.

You dont live in fear huh? I suppose you uninstalled every lock in your house, never wear your seatbelt when you drive and take slow walks through your countrys worst areas. Must be nice to be that much of a badass or live in a country where everybody holds hands and skips through fields of wildflowers knowing that your government will protect you. Im jelous.

Youre right. Guns cant protect you from your fears. I suppose thats why infantrymen dont carry arms into combat because their guns wont protect them from their fear of dying. Whats the point of carrying a rifle into combat if mr jihad is just going to drop a mortar ontop of you when youre sleeping?

Ignorance is bliss right?

Last edited by THunter; 04-15-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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  #3531  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:51 PM
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The National Guard fulfilled the requirements of the 2nd Amendment just fine before "DC. v. Heller". Now the crazy folks have a legitimate case and I can't make fun of them anymore.
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  #3532  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluehawk View Post
The National Guard fulfilled the requirements of the 2nd Amendment just fine before "DC. v. Heller". Now the crazy folks have a legitimate case and I can't make fun of them anymore.

Im sorry, I forgot our government isnt corrupt and the people that own guns are the "crazy" ones.

If this was the year 1775 YOU wouldve been one of those "crazy" gun owners. I bet you had some sort of relative that fought against the Brittish...unless youre an immigrant. That would explain your ignorance. You expect the government to take care of you.

If you havent noticed. The national guard is controlled by the President and the government. Whatever theyre told to do, theyll follow orders and do it. If the President tells them to protect us from invasion in the time of war they will. If the president sends them into a disaster area to help civilians they will. If the president decides to disarm the popluation of the entire country and declare martial law...The majority of them will follow that order. Theyre tied to the government and follow orders from the government. Some will defect and fight alongside civilians, fighting for the same things their relatives did in the 1770's. The government will refer to anybody that opposes them as rebels. Members of every single armed force (army, navy, marines, coast guard, police, sherrif, FBI, ATF, etc) will have to decide what side they want to be on. Next thing you know, its another revolutionary war. We just saw this happen in Egypt.

After being ordered by the president and government theyll show up at your door and tell you to hand over your firearms. You will not have a choice. Congratulations, you just experienced why the 2nd amendment was created in the first place. The government now has totall power over the civilians and the civilians cannot fight back. The civilians are now forced to go along with ANYTHING the government wants. Exactly what the government wanted: Full totalitarian power. This is exactly what the Brittish tried doing to us in the revolutionary war. Luckily the civilians noticed this wasnt right, started a revolution, beared arms and formed militias and fought the Brittish, won the war and formed what we now call the United States.

The US constitution was wrote to PREVENT things like this happening and they almost did with the Brittish. Anybody educated and acutally knows their country's history will understand this. Thats the sad thing about living in America today, very few americans actually care what happens.


In no way shape or form in this post was I trash talking the national guard. Im simply trying to explain a point soo many people fail to understand.

Last edited by THunter; 04-15-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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  #3533  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:27 PM
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In 1775 my ancestors were struggling to climb the social ladder and **** and suck their way into the Anglo-Irish middle class. They probably hired other people to bear arms on their behest.
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  #3534  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:29 PM
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Alexander Ostmann Alexander Ostmann is offline
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Bluehawk is right here, as before that case, the 2nd Amendment was interpreted much, much different. The difference with me is, if the National Guard came knocking at my door demanding me to surrender my firearms, I would. I would not retaliate either, despite the 2nd Amendment being designed for the purpose of allowing me to protect myself from an over-imposing government, whether it be foreign or domestic.

Heisenberg - What country are you from? It will help me understand your posts.

I read an article today in my local newspaper on the Zimmerman case and it gave some statistics on the Stand Your Ground law, before and after it was enacted. In Florida, the amount of justified self defense killings tripled since it was enacted, while in other states however, it only raised a tenth of a point per 1,000 deaths per year (which was only at around 10 to start with).

I'm glad to see the trolling has kind of died down and civilized discussion is taking place. This is very interesting to read and take part of. Thank you, everyone.
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  #3535  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:43 PM
Olivier Olivier is offline
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Heisenberg - What country are you from? It will help me understand your posts
He's the most famous Austrian Club Whore! Drakon2k2! :DDD
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  #3536  
Old 04-15-2012, 10:55 PM
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He's the most famous Austrian Club Whore! Drakon2k2! DD
That helps tremendously. Thank you.
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  #3537  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:12 PM
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The difference with me is, if the National Guard came knocking at my door demanding me to surrender my firearms, I would. I would not retaliate either, despite the 2nd Amendment being designed for the purpose of allowing me to protect myself from an over-imposing government, whether it be foreign or domestic.
If that time comes, every single owner of a firearm must make that personal choice of resisting or submitting. Thats the fear of most Americans is that the majority of gun owners WILL submit and give up their arms. Nobody wants to die or go to prison. The government knows this...thats why they become more and more powerfull every year. Let me ask you something personal? If those groups of people that DID resist and acutally started to win would you take up arms and fight alongside with them?

I feel most people in that situation would be afraid to be the first ones to resist and would rather submit and turn in their arms and jump onboard the winning side when they felt it was safe. Nobody wants to be on the side that lost when its all over.

Personally in that situation. I dont know what I would do. Part of me says I would resist. Another part of me says I would turn them in and then resist when the time is right. Unfortunately like I stated before, the government knows MANY people feel this way. This is why burying a hidden cache isnt a bad idea haha.

Oh and before I forget. Hello to all my big brother government friends.



Quote:
I read an article today in my local newspaper on the Zimmerman case and it gave some statistics on the Stand Your Ground law, before and after it was enacted. In Florida, the amount of justified self defense killings tripled since it was enacted, while in other states however, it only raised a tenth of a point per 1,000 deaths per year (which was only at around 10 to start with)
Interesting. Its hard to tell why exactly it trippled. Soo many factors are involved.

Last edited by THunter; 04-15-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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  #3538  
Old 04-16-2012, 01:44 AM
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Hurricane Katrina Door to Door Firearms Confiscation - YouTube
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  #3539  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:04 AM
Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz is offline
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Originally Posted by THunter View Post

Everybody should watch this video. Pro gun or not watch it:
Woman Testifies on Gun Control, A. Ishmael, Ishmael Ax - YouTube

I'm sorry but I have to say this...

SHE IS AN ABSOLUTE BULL****TER! She had a concealed carry the whole time! She had one in her handbag THE WHOLE TIME!!! But she couldn't get to it in time. It was Absolutely USELESS! IT DID NOTHING. SHE LEARNT NOTHING! SHE IS PROMOTING THE EXACT SAME THING THAT KILLED HER PARENTS!

People like that really piss me off!
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  #3540  
Old 04-16-2012, 06:14 AM
Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz is offline
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I watched a documentary on this either on Dr Phil or Oprah (I was sick) And they gave a good reason for this.

The entire reason for this is because of the recovery teams getting constantly shot at, they had to wear military grade body amour in order to clean up streets, many of them we're scared they would get shot each and every day they worked. Now if some people had to give up their weapons (Hell it was probably only for a certain period of time too), so be it, human lives and safety is much more important than some 2nd amendment nut-job keeping his weapon for thier own "protection"
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