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View Poll Results: So?
I am a strong, brave warrior, and I need not kite. 17 19.10%
I personally think both defensive play and kiting are equally valuable. 64 71.91%
omg kiting iz tha best gaise all u campers r n00bs 8 8.99%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 03-30-2012, 09:27 PM
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The only challenge kiting presents is the initial 32 specimens that are left after your team has died (assuming 32 are actually on the map at that time), once you get passed them and have them trailing behind you, then it's easy street from there on out.

Kiting is exploiting, exploiting is cheating.
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:07 AM
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Kiting is not challenging. It is not a strategy. The only "skill" it requires is to stay slightly farther ahead of the specimens. The only coordination it requires is to roughly stay in a group, and even if a few people die it hardly matters because one Zerker can solo a wave if he takes his time (e.g. killing one Clot per hour). The reason kiting works is solely because of an exploit in the FP's rage mechanics.

Kiting is bad and you should feel bad if you do it.
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  #43  
Old 03-31-2012, 03:52 AM
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Kiting is more fun than camping.

Also you can explore the map while doing so; therefore the mapper's work hasn't been wasted.

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  #44  
Old 03-31-2012, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necro-71 View Post
Who would ever kite on HoE as something else than zerker? Sure i can Kite FP as a Medic with a knife or machete but it takes long time, its pointless and u can easly get hitted, grabbed, cornered or killed.

I dont care what you say Jester, i played lots of time playing HoE and did not saw that much good kiters, most of those zerkers cant even take care of one FP. Not even mention about other classes who disturb while zerker try to do hes job.

Also about maps, there are more than those 2 u wrote. Office for example, Departed may look like semi open map but its waste of time kiting on HoE, same goes to waterworks, biohazard, Icebreaker or HospitalHorrors. Bedlam, Crah and Filths Cross are little bit easier but still those are not maps for 6 man HoE.


SMIFF thats all the smack talk. It's a strategy good as rest, better than pointless spamming SCAR or flame thrower imo.
i kite HoE as medic or demo, hardly ever as zerker because its too easy and takes forever to finish the waves
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2012, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Amber Glass View Post
i kite HoE as medic or demo, hardly ever as zerker because its too easy and takes forever to finish the waves
I understand medic couse hes fast, but demo? Also Zerker is slow? Come on, maybe on MountainPass where u cant find mobs but not on normal maps.
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  #46  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:11 AM
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i rock katana, m79, and pipes or HC instead of the katana. im mostly there for easy FP removal, and to quicken up the pace of the kite thinning. even during normal games, i will carry a katana as my main close quarters weapon just in case the team needs to make a forced retreat. the katana and m32 and pipes is a surprisingly good combination for maps where you are constantly exposed to zeds in close quarters
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  #47  
Old 03-31-2012, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Necro-71 View Post
I understand medic couse hes fast, but demo? Also Zerker is slow? Come on, maybe on MountainPass where u cant find mobs but not on normal maps.

Zerks are pussies ;(

And demo is actually quite performing when kiting.
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  #48  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:02 AM
Necro-71 Necro-71 is offline
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Originally Posted by Splatpope View Post
Zerks are pussies ;(

And demo is actually quite performing when kiting.
Demo is not suposed to kite, he cant do much alone when left for example against 150 ZEDs on HoE. Zerker instead, if somebody is good with kiting can finish 6ppl 10th wave alone. Also who cares its slow. Its like talking that Archers hit-and-run tactic in MMO's are g@y becouse they running around instead of standing in one spot and letting themselve getting killed. Thats a screwed up reasoning.
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  #49  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necro-71 View Post
Demo is not suposed to kite, he cant do much alone when left for example against 150 ZEDs on HoE.
I think that's the point. If you CAN kite and clutch 150 mobs as a demo on HoE, you're an awesome player. I'm trying to learn to clutch as a sharpshooter, and it's darn hard.

I'm not trying to cheapen the zerk's tactic of kiting btw, just to say that it gets a lot harder and you need a lot more skill to do it when using other classes that one wouldn't expect to be able to clutch with.

Not sure how demos would reliably take scrakes though... I don't think they could stun them offperk, and they don't even stand still so you can't stack nades on them like you can with a fp (and they're not weak against grenades).
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  #50  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMIFF View Post
Kiting is exploiting, exploiting is cheating.
So cheating requires more effort than standing still spamming left-click down a hallway? I'll stick with exploiting then.
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  #51  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Yin View Post
standing still spamming left-click down a hallway?
That's how you do defensive play?

No wonder you fail at it and decide to kite instead.
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  #52  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:56 AM
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I think we need to be clear on what kiting is. Kiting is when you run around the map in a way that all of the enemies are following behind you, while you take them out one at a time very slowly so you don't get them all spawning in front of you.

I think it's a bit lame to be honest. I do enjoy running around the map a lot, though I usually handle the enemies quite aggressively so I get quite a few spawning in areas I'm running to, which is a nice challenge. Just picking off one a time is slow and dull IMO.

Camping can be similarly boring unless you're on a higher difficulty than you usually play, or with a less than competent team. Anything else is far too easy.

It'd be nice to have some reason to keep moving (like for example some kind of invulnerable enemy that follows you around) while at the same time having a reason to try to kill the other enemies as quickly as possible.
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  #53  
Old 03-31-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Althamus View Post
I think that's the point. If you CAN kite and clutch 150 mobs as a demo on HoE, you're an awesome player. I'm trying to learn to clutch as a sharpshooter, and it's darn hard.

I'm not trying to cheapen the zerk's tactic of kiting btw, just to say that it gets a lot harder and you need a lot more skill to do it when using other classes that one wouldn't expect to be able to clutch with.

Not sure how demos would reliably take scrakes though... I don't think they could stun them offperk, and they don't even stand still so you can't stack nades on them like you can with a fp (and they're not weak against grenades).
If you wanna make something harder go on HoE and survive with a random team. Running around as demo on normal or hard is nothing to brag about. I just cant undertand those king of people who thinks about making game harder in a pointless way instead of going on harder difficoulty level. Ideas like "you must do 10 push ups if u miss headshot on scrake and run 5 kilometers when u get hitted by fp" are so stupid.

On HoE even with good squad game is chellenging. One wrong thing, missed xbow bolt or nade can cost whole team a game. Dont understand for what purpouse people does such a pointless things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
I think we need to be clear on what kiting is. Kiting is when you run around the map in a way that all of the enemies are following behind you, while you take them out one at a time very slowly so you don't get them all spawning in front of you.

I think it's a bit lame to be honest. I do enjoy running around the map a lot, though I usually handle the enemies quite aggressively so I get quite a few spawning in areas I'm running to, which is a nice challenge. Just picking off one a time is slow and dull IMO.

Camping can be similarly boring unless you're on a higher difficulty than you usually play, or with a less than competent team. Anything else is far too easy.

It'd be nice to have some reason to keep moving (like for example some kind of invulnerable enemy that follows you around) while at the same time having a reason to try to kill the other enemies as quickly as possible.
Yeah right, being all the time in move and killing ZEDs is boring even more than 6 peope camping at police station or under the bridge without even moving wasd keys, just aiming with the mause. If u say that kiting on HoE is boring i think u did not play many games like tha, i find running around team with zerkers and medics much bigger fun that spending an hour in one place, running only to trader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C_Gibby View Post
That's how you do defensive play?

No wonder you fail at it and decide to kite instead.
Face the truth, it looks like that in 99,9% of games (i dont mean normal and hard which u can run 6ppl 10th wave and survive using only knife...). KF is camp fest, becouse there are no objectives to do like in L4D or Payday for example, You will not change it. Also all of u nagging about kiting probably becouse kiters run around and kill most of ZEDs.

Last edited by Necro-71; 03-31-2012 at 09:03 AM.
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  #54  
Old 03-31-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It'd be nice to have some reason to keep moving (like for example some kind of invulnerable enemy that follows you around) while at the same time having a reason to try to kill the other enemies as quickly as possible.
There needs to be a game mode that encourages players to run around the map (though not necessarily force them as such).

Maybe if they ran to certain areas when prompted, they could all get dosh for it, while just killing zeds yields no/very little dosh.
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  #55  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It'd be nice to have some reason to keep moving (like for example some kind of invulnerable enemy that follows you around) while at the same time having a reason to try to kill the other enemies as quickly as possible.
I like the suggestion, maybe a timed area would work?

If you're camping then you have x amount of time then you must vacate the area or lose a player.
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  #56  
Old 03-31-2012, 10:51 AM
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Maybe if the specimens weren't so fat and out of shape, it wouldn't be so easy to run away from them while carrying 3 different weapons.
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  #57  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by C_Gibby View Post
That's how you do defensive play?

No wonder you fail at it and decide to kite instead.
I hope you're joking because I barely kite and usually camp with my team if they do. Which is incredibly easy and quickly gets boring. Killing Floor in general is way too easy.

Oh well, people judging without having any clue, typically internet. No need to flame people.

Oh and don't make threads asking for peoples opinion if you're going to insult someone for 'failing' just because they have a different opinion than you, rename the thread to 'agree with me or go away' instead. Thanks.

Last edited by Yin; 03-31-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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  #58  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necro-71 View Post
If you wanna make something harder go on HoE and survive with a random team. Running around as demo on normal or hard is nothing to brag about. I just cant undertand those king of people who thinks about making game harder in a pointless way instead of going on harder difficoulty level. Ideas like "you must do 10 push ups if u miss headshot on scrake and run 5 kilometers when u get hitted by fp" are so stupid.
So what do you do if you're playing as a demo or sharp and your team gets wiped? :P You have to kite or die. In that situation, being able to kite is good.

Plus, from a personal point of view, kiting as a sharpshooter means you need to be able to headshot stuff in front of you very quickly, often at a very close range. It trains you to be better at headshotting.

Also, it trains you to act instinctively when something appears. Run around the corner and a scrake is there? As a sharp, you should be swapping to LAR/Xbow and run past it, then with an Xbow, turn and pop it again as he turns around. With a LAR, finish him as he turns, or leave him until later. Either way, it teaches you to react faster and not to panic.

All good things which will benefit you on HoE :P
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  #59  
Old 03-31-2012, 12:05 PM
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It would depend.

As a Zerker, I pretty much am ready and capable to kite whenever and view it as a mechanic to take down heavy zeds. However, I'd much rather see a FP dropped by a crossbow or demo before I'd have to kite it. In many of my groups I play in (Been a long time since I've pubbed) I typically have 1-2 demos on demand and 2-3 sharps.

However, we have "Oh Shi-" situations, such as 3 FP's at a single time followed by a number of Scrakes at begining of a wave. I will willingly and easily step in and kite whatever, so long it drops. I dislike having a Zed such as a FP stay up way longer than it should.
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  #60  
Old 03-31-2012, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Yin View Post
I hope you're joking because I barely kite and usually camp with my team if they do. Which is incredibly easy and quickly gets boring. Killing Floor in general is way too easy.

Oh well, people judging without having any clue, typically internet. No need to flame people.

Oh and don't make threads asking for peoples opinion if you're going to insult someone for 'failing' just because they have a different opinion than you, rename the thread to 'agree with me or go away' instead. Thanks.
There's something even nastier than that, and it's people who aren't clear enough and spawn misunderstandings, thinking everyone has an open sesame to their spirit at the moment they write a word.

You said you prefered "cheating than spamming left click down a hallway". It implies that "spamming left click down a hallway" is your definition of defensive play and that for these reasons and because it takes less effort to do it than "cheating", as smiff refers to it, you would rather "cheat".

Describing your actual playstyle first instead of replying unclearly to smiff would have avoided all that fuss.
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