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Fix reloading

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crossfire

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 25, 2010
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#1
I know this might not be the easiest realistic request, but it is at least realistic, and not just a retarded idea or a repost. If there is one thing that bothers me about this game, it's reloading the automatic/clip fed weapons. If there are any rounds left in the weapon, why do I need to cock/charge after swapping mags?

This affects about half the weapons in the game...when there is a round in the chamber, and a new mag is inserted, cocking the weapon would cause the chambered round to eject, and the round at the top of the mag to be loaded. Instead, the game acts like every weapons is empty when you reload.

This might seem like a small detail, but when reloading is obviously important enough to be a perk for virtually every class, I don't think I need to explain why potentially cutting reload times in half is a big deal. Other than actually being realistic, this would allow a small advantage to people who keep an eye on their ammo, and reload before running out. I understand it would take some work to make a second reload for certain weapons, but I don't think this is the biggest fix requested. especially not when you already have the base reload to modify and cut down.

Weapons affected:
AA12
M14 EBR
SCARMK17
MP7M
Bullpup
AK-47
MAC-10

The pistols would aren't really a big deal, as the slides lock back on reloads, but for the point of realism, you could just drop and replace both mags, if you have a weapon in each one you're holding. Also, the hunting shotgun could be reloaded with one shell.....if we're nittpicking.

Details like this are what keep shooters modern and realistic, as opposed to the arcade shoot-em-ups of the past... It saddens me every time I see one of, if not the best, slow motion reload in a video game ruined by this fact. Not to mention frustrated when I'm backed into a corner. :p
http://kf-wiki.com/wiki/SCARMK17
 
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#2
These guns aren't clip fed.

They're magazine-fed.

But i'd think that if i was facing something trying to eat my face off, i'd cock the weapon with each new mag, to make damn sure it'll shoot when i pull the trigger.

Other than that, it's easier to make one animation for all reloading; and easier is better when you've only got a small dev team.
 
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#3
I don't like that either. There is only one game I have seen with realistic reloads. Firearms half life. I used to play this game years ago, and you had actual mags. You could do a reload of an MP5 and you had 30+1 ammo, and there were 2 different reloads depending on whether you had an empty mag or not. You also actually cycled those mags, so later you would load a mag that had 24 rounds or whatever when you had reloaded earlier.
 
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#4
Personally I don't care at all about this. But if you are going to have realistic reloads, it comes with only being able to reload when the clip is empty; otherwise you would just throw away bullets. The only game I've seen do this lately was Alien Swarm.

For me it's annoying to only reload when your clip is empty, and I don't care that much about realism in video games; espcially when it comes to small details. And I like to be able to reload whenever I want.

So I guess my point is that I don't want them to fix the reloading.
 
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#5
Euclix said:
Personally I don't care at all about this. But if you are going to have realistic reloads, it comes with only being able to reload when the clip is empty; otherwise you would just throw away bullets. The only game I've seen do this lately was Alien Swarm.

For me it's annoying to only reload when your clip is empty, and I don't care that much about realism in video games; espcially when it comes to small details. And I like to be able to reload whenever I want.

So I guess my point is that I don't want them to fix the reloading.
Click to expand...

Why would you lose the bullets? Soldiers carry a "dump pouch" on their belt for partially used magazines. No one with training throws away a half empty mag in battle.
 
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#6
Euclix said:
For me it's annoying to only reload when your clip is empty, and I don't care that much about realism in video games; espcially when it comes to small details. And I like to be able to reload whenever I want.

So I guess my point is that I don't want them to fix the reloading.
Click to expand...

This, I hate throwing away ammo (especially in an ammo-scarce game like Alien Swarm), and I don't love realism enough to get past the irritation of loading a half-mag or firing down to the last bullet. If the game is going for complete realism (like HOS) then I can understand, but this is a game with super-screaming "zombies". I think it's bound to be a little arcady from the start.
 
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#8
Salad Snake said:
This, I hate throwing away ammo (especially in an ammo-scarce game like Alien Swarm), and I don't love realism enough to get past the irritation of loading a half-mag or firing down to the last bullet. If the game is going for complete realism (like HOS) then I can understand, but this is a game with super-screaming "zombies". I think it's bound to be a little arcady from the start.
Click to expand...

I find loading bullets from a magical bullet pool annoying. Not enough to not play the game, though.
 
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#9
Salad Snake said:
This, I hate throwing away ammo (especially in an ammo-scarce game like Alien Swarm), and I don't love realism enough to get past the irritation of loading a half-mag or firing down to the last bullet. If the game is going for complete realism (like HOS) then I can understand, but this is a game with super-screaming "zombies". I think it's bound to be a little arcady from the start.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about only having a set number of magazines, and budgeting ammo accordingly, that's not even realistic. In real life, you can transfer rounds between mags and consolidate. either way, that idea would be horrible for this game. And there are games that do that, Arma, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter,....a lot of war simulation games that were trying to be cutting edge.

A game that got it right and is a good example of what I'm talking about it Rainbow Six Vegas. you have have "infinite" mags while you still have ammo, however, if you reload when you're not empty, you skip cocking it. What I'm suggesting would be a small change to fix what, by today's standards, would be called a bug, not o-haul the reloading system.

This is 2010, I understand this is a game based on a mod from a few years ago and made with a small dev team, but this is also a small request and just another way to show that this game can compete with modern games, and isn't just an arcadey House of the Dead game. It's more immersive than that. And this is one team that seems to really care about it's releases, since it reads and updates it's games, even after it's taken you're money.
 
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#10
I actually really like the way killing floor has its ammunition counted up. its not a matter of "you have this many shots before you are screwed". more of "you better hope thats at least 3/4 full!" it increases the drama. oh, and i am sure they would have no problem implementing the "discard pouch" since they already have something just like that in red orchestra.
 
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#11
This has been bugging me a bit too.

I don't really feel like doing the research but most of the guns in the game fall into two categories regarding this topic:

1. Open bolt: When the trigger is pulled, the bolt is sent forward and strips a round from the ammo source. Meaning that the gun only needs to be charged when it runs completely dry because the cycle of operations locks the bolt to the rear after every shot fired. If there is no ammo present the bolt is sent home to the chamber and stays there. This is most common in machine pistols and a good majority of belt fed machine guns.

2. Closed bolt: When the gun is charged a round is stripped from the ammo source and seated in the chamber by the bolt. Closed bolt weapons generally only need to be charged when they run totally dry too. The bolt is usually locked to the rear when it runs dry, and in most weapons only a button press is required to chamber the first round in a new magazine. This is most found in rifles and auto loading pistols.

So the majority of small arms only need to be charged when the run totally dry. This is something I see most games ignore, and I've learned to just ignore it.

This is all done from memory so I could be wrong, all my gun knowledge is getting a little rusty.

Props to candlejack for correcting people. It drives me nuts when people say "clips" instead of "magazines". Those of us who know what a clip is generally don't use the term :p
 
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#12
noupperlobeman said:
This has been bugging me a bit too.

I don't really feel like doing the research but most of the guns in the game fall into two categories regarding this topic:

1. Open bolt: When the trigger is pulled, the bolt is sent forward and strips a round from the ammo source. Meaning that the gun only needs to be charged when it runs completely dry because the cycle of operations locks the bolt to the rear after every shot fired. If there is no ammo present the bolt is sent home to the chamber and stays there. This is most common in machine pistols and a good majority of belt fed machine guns.

2. Closed bolt: When the gun is charged a round is stripped from the ammo source and seated in the chamber by the bolt. Closed bolt weapons generally only need to be charged when they run totally dry too. The bolt is usually locked to the rear when it runs dry, and in most weapons only a button press is required to chamber the first round in a new magazine. This is most found in rifles and auto loading pistols.

So the majority of small arms only need to be charged when the run totally dry. This is something I see most games ignore, and I've learned to just ignore it.

This is all done from memory so I could be wrong, all my gun knowledge is getting a little rusty.

Props to candlejack for correcting people. It drives me nuts when people say "clips" instead of "magazines". Those of us who know what a clip is generally don't use the term :p
Click to expand...

The AA12 is also open bolt. :)

The M44 mut is the only weapon thus far in KF that actually uses clips.

The guys that wrote up the stuff must've not known the difference between clips and mags, as well.
 
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#13
crossfire said:
I'm not talking about only having a set number of magazines, and budgeting ammo accordingly, that's not even realistic. In real life, you can transfer rounds between mags and consolidate.
Click to expand...

No, it is realistic. On the battlefield, you do not consolidate mags, you really don't have time. You dump partially used mags in a dump pouch, and load fresh mags, until all your mags are in the pouch, then you use those. In Iraq, if we had time, we would go to the vehicles and swap partial mags for full ones, but no one is going to sit there in combat and pull all the bullets out of a mag, then load a half used one.
 
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#16
On the balance I'd rather not see the change the OP suggests because it just creates a whole new layer of annoying now-remember-to-hit-this-button "difficulty". I can only assume that reload new mag + chamber first round is going to take a bit longer than just reload new mag, which means that to optimize your load times you should always make sure you've got a round left in the chamber when you reload. Once you get the hang of this it requires no real thought or context and is more tedious than challenging.

As for keeping distinct mags as opposed to the abstract ammo pool... wouldn't that suddenly, say, make the LAR way more versatile than the EBR just because you can always top off anytime?

At any rate, I'm not sure how much ammo-management "realism" there is to begin with, given that there are several weapons that have different magazine capacities depending entirely on the person wielding the weapon o_O
 
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#17
Vaecrius said:
At any rate, I'm not sure how much ammo-management "realism" there is to begin with, given that there are several weapons that have different magazine capacities depending entirely on the person wielding the weapon o_O
Click to expand...

Not to mention we're fighting zombies/ bio-experiments, so any level of realism is tenuous at best. I understand the desire for it of course, but from a gameplay perspective, it'd probably turn a lot of people off.
 
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#18
Spicy said:
When I read the title, I assumed this was about the reload animation not playing.
Click to expand...

Yeah same here.

also, being a firearm enthusiast myself, I find it not a big deal when people mix around the word magazine or clip, It's not a big deal, Yes. I am aware what they are, but I'm not going to correct each person over things that other people have little to no information about, correcting people constantly on minor things like that makes you an arsehole and a grammar nazi. Let it slide.

But on topic, I think having the ammo run off of a number pool is not bad, infact what would be cool, is that if the ammo pool works the same as it does now, but just make the animations realistic. That would just be a really nice piece of eyecandy for us.
 
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#20
"The thing that holds a bunch of rounds, when you reload the gun you take out an empty one of these and stick in a full one of these."

I think there is much more demand for a word to mean that, than there is demand to be reminded of exactly which mechanical design is being employed in the gun you're using (generally a moot point mid-combat beyond the mere satisfaction of knowing exactly why you're frustrated at a fatal malfunction). It seems to be a perfectly natural linguistic shift from around the time the US military went from Garands to M14s.
 
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