Poll--Bandaging and Bleed-Out in Classic. Read first post before voting!

[Nikita]

Currently, in Classic Mode, when a player is wounded, they take an immediate health hit but can keep on moving without any penalty as long as they were not hit in a leg.

In Realism Mode, a wounded player takes some initial health loss, but bleeds out additional health until they take action to bandage themselves.

In other words, in Realism, a player must bandage after being hit, 'acknowledging', in a way, that they were wounded. Wounding enemies forces them to bandage eventually, briefly removing them from the fight and leaving them vulnerable. This is arguably realistic, and disincentivises getting hit further. In Classic Mode, players can fight without handicap as long as they are alive, regardless of what hits they recieve.

In your opinion, would you like to see bandaging and/or bleed-out return to Classic Mode in a realistically implemented fashion? As Yoshiro posted a poll about re-introducing spawn on SL for Classic Mode, I think it is suitable to discuss the possibility of re-introducing bandaging into Classic Mode, even if bandaging was not a part of Ostfront.


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Here is a link to an existing thread discussing, which lacked a poll:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ad.php?t=78156


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Clarifications:

Slow bleed-out gives the player enough time to reach cover. i.e. 1 health lost per second (on top of full bullet damage dealt by hit). Otherwise, it is the same as current realism mode bandaging.

Suppression refers to, say, permanant half-suppression. Upon bandaging, the suppression meter recovers and functions as normal.

Movement, sway, and/or stamina handicaps, respectively, decrease movement speed, increase sway, and/or decrease stamina.

Realism Mode bandaging features fast bleed-out and a slower, more time-consuming bandaging animation.

A FINAL APPEAL: While we'd all drool over team bandaging a la ARMA, or some sort of in-game surgery minigame, let's keep alternative suggestions under control, keeping in mind the constraints of developer time and effort. If you feel re-implementing bandaging would take too much dev effort for too little benefit, please vote: "No: Would hurt gameplay."

[Cyper]

Vote: Yes other implementation (describe)

In my opinion the bandage system should remain. Whenever it were a part of ro classic or not is irrelevant in this case. It's realistic and therefore I like it.

It has indeed to be tweaked though.

The bleeding-out time should be set to about 5 minute instead of 5 seconds.
The longer you wait, the more penalty there will be due to blood loss. The animation and time it takes to apply the bandage should be slow downed drastically and take about 6-7 seconds. When the bandage is applied the bleeding stop. The wound is still there though, and it should still have an affect on running (if legs are injured) and more weaponsway (if arms are injured) and stamina penalty.

Bandaging should not remove these handicaps. It should only reduce it very, very slighly. However, the longer you wait to apply the bandage, the worse the handicap for it will be because of blood loss.

[Gilgamesh91]

Vote: Yes other implementation (describe)

I agree with Cyper, that would be perfect.

[Moskeeto]

Originally Posted by Cyper

Vote: Yes other implementation (describe)

In my opinion the bandage system should remain. Whenever it were a part of ro classic or not is irrelevant in this case. It's realistic and therefore I like it.

It has indeed to be tweaked though.

The bleeding-out time should be set to about 5 minute instead of 5 seconds.
The longer you wait, the more penalty there will be due to blood loss. The animation and time it takes to apply the bandage should be slow downed drastically and take about 6-7 seconds. When the bandage is applied the bleeding stop. The wound is still there though, and it should still have an affect on running (if legs are injured) and more weaponsway (if arms are injured) and stamina penalty.

Bandaging should not remove these handicaps. It should only reduce it very, very slighly. However, the longer you wait to apply the bandage, the worse the handicap for it will be because of blood loss.

That actually sounds like a really good solution. I'm with Cyper.

[Korn-Y]

"No. Would hurt gameplay."

RO Classic's goal is to offer a gameplay similar to RoOST. So i can't stand to see a soldier running, getting shot, instant stop walking and apply his bandage and start to run again in RO 'Classic', NO.

Originally Posted by Cyper

Vote: Yes other implementation (describe)

In my opinion the bandage system should remain. Whenever it were a part of ro classic or not is irrelevant in this case. It's realistic and therefore I like it.

It has indeed to be tweaked though.

Your idea is very good, really, but as you said, it's a realistic feature (or tweaked feature) and it would be better to see your idea in Realism and not in RO Classic.

[Vyllis]

RO Classic's goal is to offer a gameplay similar to RoOST

So you didn't understood at all the problems here. Even Rammjaeger finally recognised what "we" (0.01) wanted.

We want a ROOST game play for base then something that improve it and push forward. Not just a reskinned Roost, no. An evolved and better ROost: RO2 Classic; yes.

An example with the running transition, we wanted the better RO2 one, not the old Roost system. Now, it's done.
Suppression is very more pronounced and improved from Roost in classic.
Does it hurt gameplay if i can fire trough walls with a machine-gun?

Voted yes.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I voted "Yes other implementation"

I always liked the idea of bandaging, but in ROHOS it just happens way too fast.

So if it were introduced again, slow down the bandaging and bleedout (5 min is too much though, most players will have been killed several times over by then) and introduce some penalties.

[Korn-Y]

Originally Posted by Vyllis

So you didn't understood at all the problems here. Even Rammjaeger finally recognised what "we" (0.01) wanted.

We want a ROOST game play for base then something that improve it and push forward. Not just a reskinned Roost, no. An evolved and better ROost: RO2 Classic; yes.

An example with the running transition, we wanted the better RO2 one, not the old Roost system. Now, it's done.
Suppression is very more pronounced and improved from Roost in classic.
Does it hurt gameplay if i can fire trough walls with a machine-gun?

Voted yes.

Bandaging system will not improve RO Classic, but it will totally change, destroy ROOST gameplay's base you started with, thought.

[Nikita]

Originally Posted by Korn-Y

"No. Would hurt gameplay."

RO Classic's goal is to offer a gameplay similar to RoOST. So i can't stand to see a soldier running, getting shot, instant stop walking and apply his bandage and start to run again in RO 'Classic', NO.

Your idea is very good, really, but as you said, it's a realistic feature (or tweaked feature) and it would be better to see your idea in Realism and not in RO Classic.

Now, in Ostfront, you'd see a soldier running, getting shot, and just keep running... you'd also get into a rifle duel with an enemy, only wound him, and then get killed as the enemy ignored the wound and shot back. You get hit in the upper arm, the chest, or even in the head in Ostfront, and as long as you survive, you can just ignore it and keep playing normally. I believe what people are trying to say here is that bandaging improves upon that.

If implemented properly, you wouldn't see the soldier stop, bandage, and run onwards. They'd run to cover to bandage because bleed-out time was longer, or they'd sit there in the open bandaging for seven seconds or so, letting you line up the kill shot.

[MarioBava]

Originally Posted by Nikita

Now, in Ostfront, you'd see a soldier running, getting shot, and just keep running... you'd also get into a rifle duel with an enemy, only wound him, and then get killed as the enemy ignored the wound and shot back. You get hit in the upper arm, the chest, or even in the head in Ostfront, and as long as you survive, you can just ignore it and keep playing normally. I believe what people are trying to say here is that bandaging improves upon that.

If implemented properly, you wouldn't see the soldier stop, bandage, and run onwards. They'd run to cover to bandage because bleed-out time was longer, or they'd sit there in the open bandaging for seven seconds or so, letting you line up the kill shot.

This is again another area where I feel like my opinion doesn't count because I'm not a fan of Classic mode overall. Increased sway, slower movement, fair enough. But part of the reason I'm not a fan of Classic mode is stuff like this, however. I agree with Nikita almost 100%; this has always been my opinion on bandaging. It leaves people with a bitter taste when they shoot an enemy and he stops to bandage and goes on his way, but consider that in Ostfront he didn't even have to do that, he could completely ignore having been shot --now what I would ask proponents of Ostfront/Classic mode, in what way is that more tactically oriented, if Ostfront's tactical virtues are really at the heart of Classic mode? By now we are well beyond the "it wasn't in Ostfront" or "Ostfront with better graphics" concept, so I think Nikita is quite right to put this on the table as a tactical gameplay consideration. At least in RO2 being wounded creates a tactical dilemma that potentially impacts a player's behavior. Nonlethal hits can thus affect the battlefield in an immediate way that they never could in Ostfront. Whatever tweaks are deemed necessary, that's more realistic and more "tactical".

I voted for "Yes. Wounds cause bleed-out as in Realism Mode" (Note: Realism mode as it currently is in the beta), this in addition to the current impairment of being shot in the leg.

I feel that the most popular option in the poll ("Yes. Wounds cause movement, sway, or stamina handicap that bandaging removes/reduces") is lamentable and unrealistic and amazing to me that it should be most popular because it more closely resembles "healing" than the Realism style --which was often ridiculed for being "healing" even though it wasn't at all.

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Originally Posted by Korn-Y

... So i can't stand to see a soldier running, getting shot, instant stop walking and apply his bandage and start to run again in RO 'Classic', NO.

If that were me, shooting him again while he was stopped would come to my mind. Why don't others think of this???

I say "Kill him till he is dead!"

[Cyper]

Originally Posted by Korn-Y

"No. Would hurt gameplay."

RO Classic's goal is to offer a gameplay similar to RoOST. So i can't stand to see a soldier running, getting shot, instant stop walking and apply his bandage and start to run again in RO 'Classic', NO.



Your idea is very good, really, but as you said, it's a realistic feature (or tweaked feature) and it would be better to see your idea in Realism and not in RO Classic.

I don't think that would speak for the majority of Classic Players.

The point with Classic Mode is not to create a carbon copy of RO OST. It's to create a spiritual sequel to OST which means that the goal of the game is to improve the formula of OST, e.i the style, features and other elements.
It's about improving what was good in ROST, and remove and/or tweak what was bad, with heavy emphasis on realism and more tactical slow-paced combat. The ability to bandage yourself adds more realism to the mode hence why its positive for it.

Also, its really up to debate whenever Realism Mode is to consider as The Realistic mode. Features, such as the lockdown timer, skillpoints, perks, unlocks, ninja bandaging does not make sense in terms of realism. If the mode actually focused on realism these features and many others would not exist.

[Lutze]

Yes. Wounds cause movement, sway, or stamina handicap that bandaging removes/reduces

Cypers idea is good too. I like the slow bleed-out and bandaging as a concept, but the animation for bandaging needs to be slower and the sway (or other ailment) must remain in place afterward, or only be slightly reduced.

[Neuromante]

Originally Posted by Cyper

The bleeding-out time should be set to about 5 minute instead of 5 seconds.

I have a feeling the in-game average life expectancy is far shorter.

Make that one minute, two at most and you have me sold.

[>F|R< Sarcinelli]

Originally Posted by Cyper

Vote: Yes other implementation (describe)

In my opinion the bandage system should remain. Whenever it were a part of ro classic or not is irrelevant in this case. It's realistic and therefore I like it.

It has indeed to be tweaked though.

The bleeding-out time should be set to about 5 minute instead of 5 seconds.
The longer you wait, the more penalty there will be due to blood loss. The animation and time it takes to apply the bandage should be slow downed drastically and take about 6-7 seconds. When the bandage is applied the bleeding stop. The wound is still there though, and it should still have an affect on running (if legs are injured) and more weaponsway (if arms are injured) and stamina penalty.

Bandaging should not remove these handicaps. It should only reduce it very, very slighly. However, the longer you wait to apply the bandage, the worse the handicap for it will be because of blood loss.

I second this ^^^

[Cwivey]

I'd like it as it is in the (beta) Realism mode.

[marcinz]

Combination of: Wounds cause movement, sway, or stamina handicap that bandaging removes/reduces AND Wounds cause suppression that bandaging removes or reduces would be perfect

[Private Who?]

I voted "Yes: Other Implementation"

For starters, the wounding/bandaging system tried to resolve an issue with Ost that many of us found ridiculous: getting shot and not having much if any penalty for it. Wounding/bandaging AS RELEASED was a poor implementation of a good idea.

I think I'd like to see the bandaging time increased (as it has been in the beta realism mode), along with some suppression effect from the time you are hit until you get patched up. In fact, that uniform system could be implemented for Classic and Realism and I'd be fine with it. The main thing is that the time it took to bandage and the penalty you paid for being hit was ALWAYS too small in HoS as it was released. That is being remedied and I like the direction it's heading in.

With other polls of this nature I have taken the tack of "if it was not in Ost, then leave it out of Classic". Not here.

[Forssen]

Voted no.

Sounded like a good idea before I tried it. I can imagine that "Yes. Wounds cause movement, sway, or stamina handicap that bandaging removes/reduces" might work well but I would have to try it beforehand. Maybe a general handicap wherever you get hit + location specific on top of it.

[Calumhm]

Wounding should cause bleeding relative to the injury, a throat shot may bleed 10 times worse than a leg shot etc. Bandaging should stop the bleeding.
(although I would prefer if it wasn't stopped as soon as bandaging began)

I also want to see disabilities, such as minor movement penalties for leg wounds, aiming difficulties from bone-impacting arm wounds, and suppression on hit.

The more serious non-lethal injuries become, the more players will fear being hit. This is really important to the whole concept of suppression.