Normal/Relaxed Realism Experiment

[Yoshiro]

Since the release of Red Orchestra 2 we have received invaluable feedback from the community. Some liked the game as it was but didn't like features X, Y and Z. We've listened and are working on refinements. Others felt that the gameplay was too different from what they were expecting from Red Orchestra 1. We've heard that as well and are introducing Classic mode into the game. Others still would like a mix of these two modes and that is why almost every change we've made will be available as a custom setting for server admins.

But we also realized that we had focused solely on the 'Hardcore' end of the player spectrum - so we are also taking the opportunity to experiment with some gameplay mechanics targeted at the less-hardcore players, which would get implemented in the 'Normal' relaxed realism mode, making the difference between 'Normal' and 'Realistic' more apparent. So, there are some new pieces in the latest Beta, specifically to test out the less-hardcore ideas:

• Addition of a crosshair
• Removal of free-aim
• Reduced player damage

Keep in mind that these changes are NOT for those who exclusively enjoy the Classic and/or Realism modes. With that in mind, we'll be looking for feedback from more casual players on the changes to Normal mode. If Normal mode isn't your thing then please give us feedback on Classic and Realism mode.

[Das Bose]

A crosshair Is the next beta imminent, as in this evening?

[Yoshiro]

We are working on a beta for today, but it will probably not have this experiment turned on.

[Das Bose]

No worries, I can live without the xhair! Just classic ( possibly some new realism ) all the way for me

[hockeywarrior]

I seriously thought this was a belated april fools joke. What makes you guys think that "casual players" you speak of even remotely play RO2? Even if they did, what makes you think they still do so long after release?

Why not spend your precious time continuing to develop for the community you KNOW you still have, rather than going off on some crazy wild goose chase? Even as an experiment? Diverting far away from what made RO1 great was clearly a poor decision, based on the discussions on this forum. So now we're going to experiment with going even farther away from that strength into casual-game land? Where the game doesn't stand apart from its competitors at all? Excellent.

I'm sorry but I honestly can't believe I'm reading this ... It ... well ... defies belief.

[Olivier]

To be honest, I don't see why anyone that plays RO2 would want to play with a crosshair. This game is suppose to be realistic in terms of gameplay. If people want to play a game with a crosshair, they play as already existing game that is not advertising itself as realistic.

*confused*

[Verluste]

Originally Posted by hockeywarrior

I seriously thought this was a belated april fools joke. What makes you guys think that "casual players" you speak of even remotely play RO2? Even if they did, what makes you think they still do so long after release?

Why not spend your precious time continuing to develop for the community you KNOW you still have, rather than going off on some crazy wild goose chase? Even as an experiment? Diverting far away from what made RO1 great was clearly a poor decision, based on the discussions on this forum. So now we're going to experiment with going even farther away from that strength into casual-game land? Where the game doesn't stand apart from its competitors at all? Excellent.

I'm sorry but I honestly can't believe I'm reading this ... It ... well ... defies belief.

+1
Could not belief my eyes when I read the crosshair thing.
Even if it's for casual/mode mode... it is desecration.

I'm now officialy giving up my trust in TWI.

[Makarov]

"Addition of a crosshair" in a TWI RO game...is nothing sacred anymore?

I'm weeping.

[Nezzer]

Originally Posted by Makarov

"Addition of a crosshair" in a TWI RO game...is nothing sacred anymore?

I'm weeping.

[2]
Next thing you're telling us is that you are also adding health regen for relaxed

Honestly, I don't care about the relaxed mode, but that seems pretty out of place in RO. I don't think even the relaxed fans will welcome this addition, since relaxed mode is not really a casual mode. It's still too realistic for things like that. The casual crowd just doesn't like games where they can die as easily as you can in RO2. It's a very difficult game and very frustrating in the start for newcomers. You'd have to change all the game mechanics to please these guys.

You're already giving me what I want with RO Classic and I don't play relaxed, so I'm not complaining about anything, I just wanted to give my input concerning this feature

[THunter]

crosshair? serriously?

why not add a damn radar, care packages and claymores while youre at it.

Call it

call of red orchestra: heros of duty


You guys are trying WAYYYYYYYY too hard to cater to EVERYBODY to make EVERYBODY happy.

Im not even joking either.

[Proud_God]

But if you add a crosshair, wouldn't you also have to add more cone of fire, lest everyone is railgunning? I'm not sure that is the a good depiction of RO for new players trying the game.

[Floyd]

I'm not sure how these features will be implemented, so my concerns may be moot.

But what concerns me is that this may open up to clients the ability to tweak their .ini files regardless of the mode they are playing. I'm not a ladder/league player, but I would imagine that sort of thing could be a nightmare. We already see players openly tweaking graphical settings (beyond 'stock' settings) to either fit their preferences or to give them an 'edge'.

Though I'm usually not one to tell someone how to run their affairs, in my heart of hearts I just have to wonder if trying to 'compete against' (or be like) a CoD or BF (or virtually any other FPS) by offering similar game elements is prudent? I'm struggling to put my thoughts into words, but in essence.....If a player buys RO and sees game elements familiar and similar to every other generic fps, he'll be expecting the same type of gaming experience. I think that he will end up dis-appointed when he discovers that RO is NOT and DOES NOT play like the game he is expecting when he sees these common elements. On the other hand, if its a new and somewhat more challenging experience from the getgo, he will not have any pre-conceived notions.

Just something that crossed my mind.....

[Hypno Toad]

[ndrsticazzi]

Originally Posted by Yoshiro

So, there are some new pieces in the latest Beta, specifically to test out the less-hardcore ideas:

• Addition of a crosshair
• Removal of free-aim
• Reduced player damage

Keep in mind that these changes are NOT for those who exclusively enjoy the Classic and/or Realism modes.

o_O WTF????

Red Battlefield Heroe's of Duty???

we don't need another arcade fps

[Dionysos]

It worries me that you take the time to add a crosshair (which I guess in itself is not that bad considering ARMA IF you don't disable free aim along with it!) when there are so many usability bugs that are still present like the chat, np, spawn screen, role "stealing" not being displayed properly, smoke, antilag mutator crash...

Oh well. I guess I never considered that increasing the perceived differencce between realism and relaxed entailed making relaxed MORE relaxed.

[ndrsticazzi]

And who cares if ARMA and OF have crosshair? This is RED ORCHESTRA 2...

No, this is Red Orchestra 1/2

[Cwivey]

Don't play the relaxed mode then. I'll give it a try, don't expect it to be to my liking but maybe some others will like it, drum up moar interest in their freinds etc. Perhaps we can have some diversity in this here community.

It could've been considered that making the Classic game mode was a waste of time, I mean, to use an argument found here, why try branching out (to the RO:OSTies) when there was already a playerbase there needing some updates / fixes, made up of actual players and not forum go'ers.

[Nikita]

I first was hooked onto Red Orchestra after coming straight from CoD: WaW's community, (I admit this with ). I'm not a mod vet, and I'm not really an Ostfront vet, but I do have 320 hours in Ostfront and 230 in RO2 (and about 400 in CoD and Halo PC before that).

I think it is indeed a good idea to try and ease the transition to RO2's gameplay. Entering Ostfront was hard (possibly because I chose the 24/7 Danzig server, of all places). I was an excellent Halo player and decent at CoD, but I would be lucky to pick up two or three kills a round. The learning curve was high. Tanking was even worse--after getting yelled at for driving allies around into obstacles, I gave that up quickly. After getting harassed for picking squad leader without knowing what I was doing, I left that for later. Yoshiro has a point--RO2's learning curve can be made smoother.

That said, I don't think that crosshairs, no freeaim, and reduced weapon damage will actually ease new players into the game. I agree with Dionysos on intuitiveness--what new players need are good tutorials and beginner hints/tips that actually help them survive and understand the flow and nature of the combat. That way, they can fall in love more easily with RO2 for what it is.

As for other RO2 players in this thread--let's keep it civil, both in this thread and in the forum at large! I'm somewhat disappointed myself about the negativity on the forums recently. Some poor guy comes in to ask about whether or not he should get the game and suddenly the thread turns into an argument about who's fault it is that player counts are low. People are still lambasting Ramm left and right when he's personally put time into bringing us Classic Mode, even joining us in the servers. Yoshiro's been patiently keeping us up to date on developments. Wilsonam has been in servers with us, and was kind enough to do Q/A during Scorched Earth with Ramm.

My worst RO2-related nightmare is that vindictive behavior will lead the devs to reconsider their openness with fans and the community. Remember Infinity Ward and the dedicated server debacle? Mass Effect 3 and opening-day DLC, not to mention the controversial ending? It could be so much worse. Dare I mention... EA? Tripwire is a godsend, and we should be thanking them for the work they've put into the patch pushed out this week for Classic Mode.

[Colt .45 killer]

well it might be somewhat interesting if you go and make arma style crosshairs that somewhat resemble the front sight of the gun. they also move around and are for the most part inaccurate out to longer distances.

I personally will never use the crosshairs, and in a business sense I think that Tripwire is now trying to be something to everyone. The saying goes if you are something to everyone, you are nothing to no one. This may or may not get you more players, I doubt it. I could go on and say more but its all already been said..

[ndrsticazzi]