The curious case of the .44 Magnum

[C_Gibby]

So I've been comparing these two guns, and I've spotted something silly.

Handcannon

• 8 rounds per mag
• £15 per mag
• 96 rounds/12 mags total
• £180 for a full refill
• Player starts with 6 mags upon purchase
• £500 for the gun
• Player spends £590 upon leaving the trader
• Weapon is generally more cost/weight-effective than the .44 Magnum

.44 Magnum

• 6 rounds per mag
• £15 per mag
• 128 rounds/21 mags total (+2 spare rounds)
• £315 for a full refill!
• Player starts with 10/11 mags upon purchase
• £450 for the gun
• Player spends £607 upon leaving the trader
• Weapon is generally less cost/weight-effective than the Handcannon

Basically, the Magnum is actually weaker than the handcannon at this moment, and the Handcannon is far more effective than the Magnum, and it's even CHEAPER!


So, to make the Magnum worth its keep, I'm going to suggest the following:

• Make the single Magnum 2Kg again.
  • Let it have its place as a wonderful off-perk backup weapon again. Even if the Magnum returns to the land of balance, the Sharpshooter players are just going to skip the .44 and go straight to the HC.
• Reduce the cost of Magnum ammo.
  • Perhaps £10 per mag instead of £15? If the Magnum is supposed to be the smaller gun compared to the HC, it should not have to be more expensive in the long run. The Magnum does less damage than the HC (which is fine) but the player is going to have to shoot more frequently to match up, which will involve spending way more magazines, and spending waaay too much more money, when I could have saved tons of money in the long run by beginning the game by buying a Handcannon instead.
• Make the gun cheaper upon purchase.
  • I believe that if the Magnum was reduced to somewhere in the £300-£400 range, it would have greater value and see more use in perks such as Demoman, Firebug, and Berzerker. When someone can afford a £450 gun, people can often already afford the better £500 gun instead, or they have to be given mere pennies to get it.

To summarise, the Handcannon is the superior weapon as intended but it is also superior for one of the wrong reasons. The point of people taking the inferior .44 Magnum is because it is more cost-effective for them in their situation, but they end up spending more money than they would with the superior weapon. Picking the inferior weapon is supposed to be done as a compromise for not being able to afford the superior weapon to begin with, but there is absolutely no reason as to why your compromise of a choice should actively weigh you down, too.

[ChairmanMurder[Forge]]

What really made the .44 a worthwhile weapon wasn't really the cheapness, but the weight. As you mentioned, when someone can afford a .44, he can most likely afford that extra £50 for a handcannon.

With that said, though, when I'm an M79/M32/pipe demo, I'd love to get a handcannon for closer quarters combat, but I can't, because I don't have enough room for it. So I get the .44 instead.

In terms of money, yes, from the data you presented the handcannon is clearly the superior weapon. In terms of weight (disregarding the 4-block bug on the magnum), the handcannon is twice the weight of the .44, but the handcannon is certainly not twice as good.

If anything, ammo prices should be tweaked so that they both cost the same fully loaded. Yeah, the .44 is weaker than the handcannon, but you do get more rounds. If you're going to be walking out of the trader with a fairly decent pistol, you should pay a little premium for that weight.

[Lacedaemonius]

A nice temp work-around (idk why you'd use it though, as the .44 is absolute **** right now like the other new weps) to the ammo cost is to buy your first .44, then a second, and sell the second back. Voila, full ammo for less dosh.

[Blockbot]

Yeah, I gotta say that .44mag is my FAVOURITE WEAPON! sad I never find good use for it. find it just waste of space. and the few times I buy it with a xbow combo, I usually just swap right over to the 9mm rather then the magnum.

but I still think that the magnum should have its penetration removed, and its quick reload for a single bullet puttin "like the M32." and slightly more powerfull then Handcannon.

Yeah I know it will just be another weak "Lever action rifle" but the lever action rifle dont have a weight of 4, which would make it abit better than in the current state. and ofc this also need alot more work sadly...

[Splatpope]

Rated 5 stars, voted yes, no comments.

[Rhenna]

You have presented your case magnificently.

I like the weapon, but I don't like the 4-block weight for a single pistol, nor the cost of ammunition.

There is some debate whether the HC is of the .44 Magnum variety, or, as I see it, chambered for the .50 AE. Regardless of which is true, the ammunition for the revolver should definitely NOT be more expensive on a per-round basis than the HC. That makes no sense whatsoever.

I've said this before; simply make the revolver a single-only weapon. That should clean up any weight/ammunition quantity quirks.

With respect to this thread, I'd adjust the ammunition to £1.5 per round, and total ammunition to 132 rounds, just to make things tidy. That's £9 per cylinder, £198 for an even 22 cylinders of revolving pleasure. Done.

[Amber Glass]

Originally Posted by Blockbot

Yeah, I gotta say that .44mag is my FAVOURITE WEAPON! sad I never find good use for it. find it just waste of space. and the few times I buy it with a xbow combo, I usually just swap right over to the 9mm rather then the magnum.

but I still think that the magnum should have its penetration removed, and its quick reload for a single bullet puttin "like the M32." and slightly more powerfull then Handcannon.

Yeah I know it will just be another weak "Lever action rifle" but the lever action rifle dont have a weight of 4, which would make it abit better than in the current state. and ofc this also need alot more work sadly...

that wouldn't make sense as the HC is chambered in .50AE

they definitely need to make the magnum 2 blocks again, it was the only reason it was worth buying.

[Islidox]

I just don't understand why should another sharpshooter weapon be more beneficial for offperks than the sharpshooter perk itself. I just find the lack of sharpshooter specific weapons to be highly disappointing. (Xbow/M14 aside, not counting mods)

However, I agree that the magnum pricing should change. How a full refill costs more than the handcannon is beyond me, considering that the handcannon is overall the better weapon (reload, mag capacity, recoil, DPH). However, I wouldn't drop the price down to $10 per mag, seeing how the magnum has 33% more ammo than the handcannon. I would suggest $12 per mag, making a full refill $252, which is more reasonable than $315 while being proportional in terms of ammo amount.

I think what TWI did was to change the coding so that the magnum weighed 4 blocks to prevent the weight glitch. (Others in the forum from what I saw railed against TWI saying that patch was sloppy coding.) I also think the recoil bonus does not affect the magnum either, but I'm not sure about that since I stopped using the magnum a month ago.

[Blockbot]

Originally Posted by Amber Glass

that wouldn't make sense as the HC is chambered in .50AE

they definitely need to make the magnum 2 blocks again, it was the only reason it was worth buying.

I know I know. but if you change the bullets to be non penetrable, with bullets that are supposed to be used in revolvers. like flatpoints... or something. they will "explode" inside the target, instead of just penetrate them. and therefor more damage

[OutcastMastodon]

As a Firebug I find the .44 Mags pretty decent even in the shape they are now, but I suppose there should be bigger price difference, meaning cheaper magnums. One thing people seems to underrate is the firing speed, most useful for ripping the heads off at least 6 or 7 zeds in a quick efficient manner

[drivebymessiah]

I agree with the OP 90%.

The last 10% is there to say I am not sure the gun price need be reduced as long as it gets the weight reduction and more cost effective ammo. At half the weight of a hand cannon and most the effectiveness I think the price is justified. Though, even with the weight and ammo cost changes a slight reduction to 400 quid would be reasonable.

[naksiloth]

If it gets a stronger headshot multiplier and weight reduction I think it should get a price increase rather than decrease, or it should stay in the 450£ but its mags should be costly.

When you consider the shot count of the chambers and mag size, and If you put headshot multiplier to 1.6x, Magnum will surpass the Handcannon's headshot damage output but as for body shot DPS, it will still fall short. Also increasing HS multiplier to that level will put the 15$ shot chamber cost reasonable.

Also I don't get it; irl a .44 magnum kicks like a mule, so I don't really see a point of it firing so fast. You wouldn't fire a .44 magnum that fast unless you want to break your own wrist. If its headshot multiplier increases also its recoil should be bigger imo, so that will limit its usage as an off-perk weapon as well.

[Amber Glass]

i wouldnt be opposed to seeing the magnum's HS multiplier increasing to say 1.25x at its current weight, it would correspond with the lower magazine count and the sharpshooter perk.

[Dafe]

Originally Posted by Amber Glass

i wouldnt be opposed to seeing the magnum's HS multiplier increasing to say 1.25x at its current weight, it would correspond with the lower magazine count and the sharpshooter perk.

I guess if Tripwire Interactive changes anything about the Magnums, it would be this!

[C_Gibby]

Originally Posted by Dafe

I guess if Tripwire Interactive changes anything about the Magnums, it would be this!

Gee, no.

/pistols shouldn't be sharpshooter exclusive