Small Team Tactics

[timur]

What are nice tactics when you can't have a full team together? I'm talking from 2-4 players. It always has been a weakness for me; it isn't the right setting to solo, but it doesn't have as many directions covered or roles played as when a full team is available. So tactics can range from effective perk combinations to which perks are most neccesary/appropriate for smaller team play to just some tips overall for in-game stuff.

[Salad Snake]

I've also been wondering this. I know on a 6-man team every perk can be useful, but what is a good perk if you're the second person to join a server? Third?


Personally, I've found Commando/Sharp to be a good 2-person combo. Zerker/Sharp can work too so long as Zerker doesn't need too many heals. Support or Demo can make a good 3rd team member imo, though they have trouble putting out steady enough damage to prevent from being overrun in a 2-person game.

[Zaku212]

Well the 2 person sharpy/ commando works fine.. but the commando is easily replacable with demo or firebug.. firebug being my preference.

The sharpy can be replaced with a support depending on the difficulty

[Eureka]

I've done quite well as a Sharpshooter supporting a Berserker on open maps (Farm, Mountain Pass). For me, the tough thing to learn was when not to shoot so we're not hindering each other.

On tighter maps (Biotics Lab, Bedlam) I like combining a Support with any ammo-friendly Perk. The Hunting Shotgun can easily replace the crossbow in smaller squads when the big boys come knocking, and if you add in a good Berserker, Commando, or Firebug you get some impressive, steady damage. A strategic weld or two can also act as a weak team-mate, as long as you know where to fight to avoid ninja specimens teleporting into locked rooms.

I find the middleish maps, like Wyre, the hardest to handle with fewer players. I'm more likely to fight inside the bunker with the same tactics as the tighter maps than do it out in the open, though after a certain squad size (typically 4, from what I've seen) the main roof is an excellent holding point.

[Vintage]

In smal games I really like moving around the entire map rather then holding down a position, and when there is only 2-4 players it is much easier to do that. Bezerker, Medic, Commando, SS and Support are good classes for that. Demo is also an option but it can be very risky. I've managed some pretty awesome 2 man games with a M32 + HC + Pipes and my teammate as a Support. We would run through doors, he would weld them and I'd drop a pipe and then we would keep moving.

[scary ghost]

Agree with Vintage there. I find small teams have a harder time securing an area for camping and prefer to keep moving to reduce the chances of being overrun. Since we'd all be constantly on the move, I'd go either zerker or medic due to their speed bonuses. Firebug works well since he needs space to maximize DOT, flamethrower dishes out solid damage against everything up to a huskm and he also has the pyro panic button if he gets surrounded.

[CandleJack]

When there's only 2-3 people, i will never go Medic. There's not enough firepower to deal with everything. Commando, Support or Sharpshooter provide more damage dealing, and Firebug, Demo and Berserker isn't good enough with my skill/perk level.

I guess it can come down to the individual situations as well, you cannot create a formula to apply to every individual situation, though you can try.

I guess you really need to communicate more with a smaller team, as there is a smaller margin for error. It is still possible to camp with a smaller team, though it requires more effort, determination and co-ordination to successfully execute.

Originally Posted by Eureka

I find the middleish maps, like Wyre, the hardest to handle with fewer players. I'm more likely to fight inside the bunker with the same tactics as the tighter maps than do it out in the open, though after a certain squad size (typically 4, from what I've seen) the main roof is an excellent holding point.

I've found that the roof is a deathtrap, as is the bunker. Ironic really.
I prefer the tunnel. You simply take the path down the left side of the spawn to a staircase, and camp in that tunnel. It's easy, with a Support welding the back door and everyone else focus-firing the front.

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

When there's only 2-3 people, i will never go Medic. There's not enough firepower to deal with everything...

I've found that the roof is a deathtrap, as is the bunker. Ironic really.
I prefer the tunnel. You simply take the path down the left side of the spawn to a staircase, and camp in that tunnel. It's easy, with a Support welding the back door and everyone else focus-firing the front.

No medic is definitely a big one with smaller teams. As much as I enjoy playing medic on a good squad, the damage is really not there. And, from what I've seen of the balance patch, that's only going to be reinforced as the overpowered weapons are brought back into line.

I still like the roof with large groups in Wyre, but you really need at least 4 players in my experience. It's probably been the most fun place that I've ever gone LAW with demolitions- lots of good angles to shoot, and usually clusters of specimens. I agree that the bunker itself is a deathtrap, I was meaning more the underground tunnels. There are a few good holding spots there if you are fighting a static battle. I hate running through the trees so Wyre is definitely one of those maps that I try to choose my ground carefully.

[CandleJack]

Originally Posted by Eureka

No medic is definitely a big one with smaller teams. As much as I enjoy playing medic on a good squad, the damage is really not there. And, from what I've seen of the balance patch, that's only going to be reinforced as the overpowered weapons are brought back into line.

I still like the roof with large groups in Wyre, but you really need at least 4 players in my experience. It's probably been the most fun place that I've ever gone LAW with demolitions- lots of good angles to shoot, and usually clusters of specimens. I agree that the bunker itself is a deathtrap, I was meaning more the underground tunnels. There are a few good holding spots there if you are fighting a static battle. I hate running through the trees so Wyre is definitely one of those maps that I try to choose my ground carefully.

Ah, a good team. I've been meaning to play with one of them lately.

Generally i play on hard, because more people play on them so there's more chance of getting a game. These people also aren't as good players.

And i see what you mean about the angles, though there's about 3 different pathways for zeds to walk, and the open-ness is also a minus as well as a plus. This is in regards to Husks and the like. More open room gives them more freedom to aim.

But i guess each to their own. I have found a good spot i can work with, and so have you.

People do things differently, which we have to value.

[Uk1t4k3]

Normally when playing a game of suicidal with 2-3 players i would pick support and one of them will be a sharpshooter and the rest can either be a medic or commando which will probably take out any zed with ease.

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by CandleJack

Ah, a good team. I've been meaning to play with one of them lately.

Generally i play on hard, because more people play on them so there's more chance of getting a game. These people also aren't as good players.

At this point, I also mostly play on hard. Partly for the reason you mention (it's easier to find a game) and partly because I can't get my mic to work and that makes Suicidal one little bit more difficult.

There also seems to be a bigger difficulty jump from Hard to Suicidal. As long as my team isn't totally useless I can usually get through Hard. Suicidal.. it seems like when the first Fleshpounds show up, we always end up dead. I don't think I've been with a team that's survived past wave 7/10, which is frustrating.

In any case, back to the topic at hand. It's always interesting to play with different groups of people to see some of the variations in tactics at work. For instance, especially with a small group, I usually see people in Biotics Lab hold the elevator area (I wonder how long it will be until that becomes a new Crawler spawn). However, I was recently with a squad that held the t-junction down the hall instead, with the top floor trader. It was a very different feel of game, just moving a few meters.

[ariffyunos]

Me and another friend managed to overcome HOE Biotics with these configurations:

1. Defend at spawn point (elevator)
2. (Assuming your back is facing the elevator) Weld left side door and right side small room door.
3. 1XSharp (lev 6) and 1XSupport (lev 6)
4. Stand diagonally on the crossjunction. Support slightly forward. Do not move forward or zeds will spawn on either left or right side corridor.


Support
- Uses hunting shotgun to clear hordes

Sharp
- Uses xbow and HC for level 1-6. Xbow for husks, sirens and scrakes.
- By level 6 Sharp will be able to accumulate wealth for 2 extra xbows.
- For level 7-10, use xbow 100% of the time as there will be no time to react for changing weapons. Too many big zeds too little time. Place spare xbows nearby to allow fast replacement.

Notes:
Sharp needs to be very very very accurate 100% of the time.

We took many tries and many failed attempts until we managed to get to meet and beat Pat.

Just sharing a simple one.

[xebo]

Gr33n2R3d and I have 2-manned most HoE 6-man maps fairly consistently. It's a pretty straight forward berserker formula.

Required:

• A team of 2 that knows the map very well
• A known route around the map, that the team can use to kite continuously
• A "Front man" with Crossbow and katana
• A "Scout" with axe and katana

When the two zerkers (Or medic(s) ) start kiting, the "Front man" kills the zeds following the group, and the "Scout" looks ahead of the group, ensuring they don't back up into a pack of baddies.

The idea is to split the map up into smaller sections (Hallways, rooms, etc). The two players hardly ever occupy the same section. The scout falls back to the next section when he sees the "Front man" fall back to the scout's original location.

This "scout" not only looks for danger spots, or troubling situations, but he has another purpose; KF maps are kind of "Zoned" into sections naturally. Zeds won't spawn in any "zone" a player occupies. If the scout occupies the next zone back from the team, he's ensuring nothing spawns directly behind the group, giving everyone a very comfertable time/space buffer.

Let z = a pack of zeds, | = a zone's border, p = a player's location, and x = a zone zeds can spawn in.

No scout: |z|pppp|x|
Scout: |z|ppp|p|x|

While kiting, the team has a "buffer" zone to react to spawning zeds.

Anyway, the front man and scout switch roles when there is a scrake or fleshpound. The scout (with an axe) deals with these, while the front man checks behind. Before this can happen, the front man (with xbow) has to kill sirens/husks so the scout can engage said biggies without fear of firebolts/screams.

This is all just the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many details that make a world of difference in effectively utilizing this tactic, but they all become clear with a large time investment. A few examples of how the devil is in the details:

• Some maps have naturally dangerous zones. Suburbia has that underpass (Siren/GF drop downs), santa's laire has the shipping bay w/ the train tracks and shelfs (massive spawns) and the area with the trader next to the xmas tree hall (Crawler packs from roof and window), and waterworks has "outside" (drop downs) as well as the infamous " 'L' room " (hallway drop downs/cutoffs). The front man should know not to kill a bunch of followers right before the team clears these areas. If he creates room for more zeds to spawn in when the team is next to these locations, the zeds will mostly come from these areas, putting the team in a dangerous situation.
• If the scout does encounter zeds cutting the team off, has has to maintain line of sight (aggro), or this will occur to the rest of his team: |z|ppp|x|z|
• If the group gets seperated, you have to meet back up while going in the same direction, lest this again should be the case: |z|ppp|x|p|z|

Good luck

[Starsky]

I like a simple Commando/Sharpshooter combo for 2 players or those+Support for 3. Pretty flexible on what the 4th can be with those 3. Medic is always nice (damn husks!!!).
Nothing fancy like firebugs or demo's, but I like my (relatively) simple, conventional weapons

[Spicy]

Originally Posted by xebo

stuff

That was a very informative post, Xebo. +rep from me.

About how long did it take to work all of that out?

[xebo]

It all came fairly naturally after we tried it once. Took about two months to work our all of the details for most of the maps.

Alone, we only ever died when we would back up into a wall of nasty zeds, so the idea was to use teamwork to minimize the chances of getting pancaked.

When solo, you can control spawn rates, check behind you, and avoid dangerous areas, but in the end you're still susceptible to getting boxed in. Double sirens + crawlers out of nowhere is just a bad dice roll waiting to happen. Working as a team, with one dedicated scout, not only decreases the chance of this happening, but increases your ability to deal with it when it does.

Scout Loadout (Zerker): Katana, axe, m79. This is a guy who can deal with pretty much anything that should cut the team's retreat off. He can hack through large groups quickly with katana, take out/stall scrakes with axe, and deal with packs of crawlers quickly with m79.

Frontman Loadout (Zerker): Katana, Crossbow. Ideal for killing followers, and taking out husks/sirens in the back of the pack.

As long as you have the right map knowledge and teamwork, you can take luck almost entirely out of the equation. I'd say a team of two skilled people following this strategy can consistently and predictably take on most maps on 6-man HoE, regardless of the wave.

[FSUBoo]

I found a good small team a few weeks ago on hard on Santa's Evil Lair. 3 level 6 support specialists = WIN

[scary ghost]

Here is a video that illustrates the tactic Xebo was outlining. It starts as a 5 man game but 2 people die within 4 minutes of the video so it ends up being 3 man HoE with 175 specimens left on wave 10. It also does work very well on a full 6 man game. It just takes a long time to complete with wave 10 alone easily taking 20+ minutes.

YouTube - Killing Floor - Team Berserker on H.o.E 03

Often times I will be running ahead to make sure there are no surprise spawns. The more important thing though is you must know the map layout. Some parts of a map are ok to hold for a minute or so to kill the horde. Other parts may have multiple spawn points that can spawn specimens to box you in so you should get through those parts ASAP. Knowing these spawn points will also help you anticipate where a possible spawn might come from.

Also, you should have a circuit that you follow and be ready to make changes to it if something should happen that blocks your normal route, like 3 scrakes. All of your teammates should know the default path and the scout is responsible for informing the team if an alternate route should be taken.

[Rainydaykid]

I have found support and commando work great together, the commando covers the support's slow reloads.

[comaryu]

Personally i feel that all perks are appropriate regardless of what team size you are playing in.
How the game turns out entirely depends on how well your team communicates and works together.

There are a lot of perk combinations that works together for instance,
On Duos-

• Sharpie + Commando - Sharpie takes husks, sirens and other bigger zeds while commando takes on trash mobs
• Berserk + Berserk - Xebo explained it very well.
• Commando + Support - Commando takes trash , while Support covers fire. Bigger zeds such as FPs and Scrakes can be a combined effort but an AA12 + Hunting shotgun is pretty self sufficient.
• Commando + Demo - pretty much same as Sharpie+mando duo
• Support+ support - One with pump action to take on trash, other with Hunting shotgun for close quarter crowd control. AA12 for bigger zeds.
• Sharpie + Sharpie - one with xbow loadout, the other m14+LAR taking the mando's role. Pretty effective in open maps such as Mountain Pass.

On Trios -

• Sharpie + Mando + Support - just as the SharpieMando Duo, the support fills in the role of "support" by covering fire or keeping a welded door.
• Pure Support - holing up in that narrow corridor in EvilSanta'sLair? Ground floor of Office?, tunnel or that helicopter in manor? an all support team is pretty self explanatory.
  
  I don't have to give any more examples, since the idea has been given out, the only combination that really doesn't work is Demo + sharpie. Even if the Sharpie goes LAR+M14 loadout, its a pretty challenging duo