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Taking out Tigers on Orel 88v76

Solo4114

Grizzled Veteran
May 12, 2006
1,608
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I'm betting some Allied players are having a real bear of a time dealing with Tigers. I'm seeing stories by various Tiger drivers about how they totally destroyed like 17 tanks, and took 1500 shots and no damage. I suspect this is due to Allies not understanding the realities of their situation.

Here's a few tips that may help:

1.) Solo = dead. If you drive around on 88v76 solo in your T34, you're toast. You're probably better off both team-tanking (to be able to fire and move while reloading) and travelling in squadrons of 4 tanks. That's about half your team on a 32 player server, but if you can fire quickly and keep moving it'll make a LOT of difference. Moreso than 8 stationary targets who are reloading and NOT moving or moving and NOT reloading. Strength in numbers. The Tiger can't kill you all.

2.) Speed = life. The Russian armor on this map is (with the exception of the SU-76 and KV-1S) 10km/h faster than German armor. That may not seem like much but it makes a big difference. Plus, the faster you're moving, and the more you're moving, the harder you are to hit. will you still get killed on the move? Sure. But it'll be harder.

3.) Close range is essential. You CAN kill the Tiger with a T34/76 or an SU-76. But not at anything over 500m, and not on the frontal armor. If you engage a Tiger, you've GOT to do it at close range, and you've GOT to flank the bastard. Now, this map lacks a lot of ground cover to do this, so refer to point #1. You need enough targets all moving in on the Tiger so that he can't kill you all before one of you gets in close enough to take him out.

4.) Makeshift smoke rounds. Yes, you cannot kill the Tiger at long range. And yes, we don't actually have smoke rounds to use. But we DO have these lovely puffs of dirt that erupt to obscure the enemy's vision each time you fire in FRONT of them. So while you're on the move, forget accuracy, and just try to shoot in FRONT of the Tiger, so that you kick up enough dust to screw up his aim momentarily. With four of you bearing down on him at once, he should be effectively screened until you get in close and open up on his side armor.

5.) When in doubt, retreat. At anything over 500m, the Tiger is invincible. Get used to that idea. With that in mind, if you see one and you're alone, or very very far away (but still in his range), haul ass out of there. There's enough Soviet tanks and only TWO Tigers that you can still win the MAP even if you can't win the duel with the Tiger. So, simply go where the Tiger isn't. You'll live longer.
 
Aww shucks... Y'all are gonna make me blush... :)

Seriously, though, thanks. I just think that a lot of the problems people have come from the fact that (a) they go it alone (I've been known to do this too, I admit), and (b) they don't know their tanks' capabilities.

76mm guns couldn't penetrate Tiger frontal armor (in the game you can damage the Tiger from the front, but you won't penetrate and kill in a single shot -- it takes like three or four, by which point you're dead anyway). They COULD penetrate side and rear armor, but only at close range.

Russians need to play to their strengths and minimize their weaknesses in these situations. Strengths for the Russians are speed, generally good quality tanks (vs. all the other German armor), and NUMBERS. Seriously, on Orel 88v76, I think there's literally an AFV (SU-76, KV-1S, or T34/76) for every single player on the team. The T34s are fast as hell, almost as fast as a clown car. Seriously, get yourself a nice open field and try it out. T34s top out around 40km/h in the game, and a clown car is maybe 5-10km/h higher.

The Germans, on the other hand, have the long-range capabilities, but once you get in close, they're vulnerable. You need to use your speed and numbers to do this. Plus, there's only two Tigers. Against a Pz III or Pz IV, the T34 is gonna do just fine.

Two other bits of advice:

1.) The KV-1S is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's got enough armor to shrug off most mid-range encounters (500m-800m or so) with any German armor except the Tiger (assuming you angle properly). BUT, the downside is this: it's slower against the Tiger (30km/h max), a larger target, and that extra armor doesn't help at all vs. the 88mm gun on the Tiger.

If I'm going up against a Tiger (not that I'd choose to), I'd rather be in a T34. At least then I can use my speed to get in close. Remember, the KV-1S is packing the same gun as the T34/76, so you're not getting a tank that hits any harder. Just one that can take more of a beating from the lighter German arsenal.

2.) The SU-76 is also slow, but lighter armored (30km/h max, again). On the plus side, it seems to load a little faster than the T34 and KV-1s, though that could just be my (warped) perception. It seems to have a slightly LOWER profile, but not a SMALLER profile overall, so play that to your advantages. Hiding in wheat fields is probably a decent way to use the SU-76.

I'd also only use this for mid-range engagements vs. the lighter armored vehicles. In close (<500m) you want a turreted vehicle, especially if you're stuck solo tanking (which, if you're in an SU-76, you probably are).


Basically, the Russians on this map have to play to speed and numbers, and remember, your goal is not to KILL the enemy, but to BEAT him by taking his land. That's it. Just take the positions and you win. Use your speed to keep the enemy on the defensive or at least reacting to you so that you control the pace and location of the engagement. Use your numbers to quickly capture positions and move on.


And whatever you do, don't get into a long-range duel with a Tiger. It's like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You get dirty and the pig likes it.
 
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And don't forget: you don't engage a Tiger from the front. You simply don't. Never. Ever. Nope. Not in a T-34/76. A Tiger's front is bad mojo. Very bad mojo.

Ok, you get my meaning. ;)

You also don't want to engage a Tiger from oblique angels. The Tiger loves that. Skip all attacks from 10-2 o'clock positions, as viewed from the Tiger. There's a reason Tiger crews called these positions "Mahlzeiten" -> "meals". And yes, it's you who's on those kitties' table.

That leaves two positions: from the sides and the rear. And you'll still need pretty much a 90
 
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Witzi said:
*Psst, guys! To Tactics!*

But yes, speed is probably best advantage what T-34 get at Orel where distances are huge! Its hard to hit a moving target you know? And Tiger fires slowly! That is key to defeat Tiger! You need to move fast and when Tiger is reloading, you shoot! Simple as that.

I posted here because I suspect a lot of players don't visit the tactics forums -- specifically players who'd most benefit from this info.


As far as team tactics goes, you can always try to mess with the tiger by firing at him on the move from multiple approaches. Hit the left armor to draw his attention, then have others sneak in from the right, or draw his fire back that way. Given the slow turret traverse, it might work. Personally, I'd rather try my "dust screen" approach, though. Four tanks approaching at once, kicking up a cloud of dust in front of the Tiger.
 
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Another trick, you for are moving perpendicular to a tiger or anything shooting at you while moving full tilt, you can exploit a little oddity about the unreal engine. Sound moves at the speed of light. When you hear the incoming shell hit the brakes!

Most Tiger commanders are experienced gunners = leading targets. If you stop the shell will harmlessly land infront of you.

Another trick is to suddenly turn away from the shot and out of their set range so it either lands next to you, of if the gunner expected you to stop behind you where the range was set for. Randomly changing speed and direction while they are firing is effective too. Keep pace with them too, go full sleep while you know the are reloading.

I had some guy in a half track do this too me in a panther and it was SO FRUSTRATING. He managed to cross right through east field.
 
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Things I hate from the POV of an experienced Orel Tiger player

1: T34s trying to dance with me. We are in tanks, lets atleast act like it.

2: T34s in general.

3: Clown cars.

4. Players who get too close to my Tiger, get a bouce off and proceed to satchel me when they see they are doomed. It just isn't cricket.

Basically the only way to beat a tiger on Orel is to outnumber him and outflank him. You'll need atleast 5 tanks to do this against a good team (1 Tiger and a few escorts of about 3 pz4s or stugs).

3 T34s should angle their tanks so they can take a pouding from the Tiger. 2 T34s on the sides should pincer round the back of the Tiger.

The 3 at the front take out the escorts. All german tanks below panther don't stand a chance against T34s. Try and piss off the Tiger aswell.

The two going around pummel the Tiger from the back. Jobs a goodun.

I'm speaking from experience here, this has happened to me a few times and it seems to be the most full proof plan. Unless there are 2 Tigers.
 
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Solo4114 said:
1.) The KV-1S is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's got enough armor to shrug off most mid-range encounters (500m-800m or so) with any German armor except the Tiger (assuming you angle properly). BUT, the downside is this: it's slower against the Tiger (30km/h max), a larger target, and that extra armor doesn't help at all vs. the 88mm gun on the Tiger.

If I'm going up against a Tiger (not that I'd choose to), I'd rather be in a T34. At least then I can use my speed to get in close. Remember, the KV-1S is packing the same gun as the T34/76, so you're not getting a tank that hits any harder. Just one that can take more of a beating from the lighter German arsenal.
KV-1s is slower AND weaker. There's no reason to take it over the T34/76.
 
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Apathy said:
Why just today I flanked a whole column of Tigers and Stug III with my cute T-60. ^_^

I went up right behind a Tiger and unloaded at it's rear. It tried to run away, but I hit the engine before it did. :D

The T-60 was taken out at the same time the Tiger was put in. You talking about the Panther?
 
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Yeah, I think Soviet players on Orel88 really need to sharp up their tactics.

When I get to play in a Tiger, I usually take out 10-20 enemy tanks before I am completely overrun by hordes of T-34s coming from all directions, with my engine blown, tracked, smoking, red, etc.

The game is a bit buggy on the penetration btw, I've taken a lot of damage from long range frontal shots, especially HE. If it weren't for this, I'd survive a lot longer.

It's kind of sad, being in a Tiger in an strategic position, looking with your binoculars, at 1000m enemy AFVs TRYING to take you out even when they see that there are endless wreckages on their area.

I've taken out more than 15 AFVs in a row, and they keep coming and coming and they are all solo tankers and they STOP and try to pick me off. Every shot bounces and I just keep blowing them up. They respawn and try it again.

Soviets, if you're seeing a bunch of destroyed friendlies next to you, you should move forward as fast as possible instead of just standing there being an easy target for the Tiger at 1000m.
 
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After doing some experimenting in my target range map, I've got some results that may interest folks reading this thread.


In order to penetrate with the Su-76 (and probably T34-76) using AP rounds on a Tiger from the front you need to be within about 30 meters:eek:

I could penetrate the side with AP at at least 750 meters.


Now here's where it get's weird. HE rounds.

So we know HE round damage is independent of distance, so it can be your friend. On the other hand, I don't think this sort of cumulative damage is that realistic with super thick Tiger armor. But it's in the game, so here goes.

Between 9-10 HE rounds against the front Tiger's frontal armor at 750 meters blew it up.

Oddly, I got no consistency with flank hits on the Tiger with HE rounds - it must be very very critical to hit just the right spot. On one attempt I got a kill in 9 hits, in 2 others, I unloaded all 30+ HE rounds and couldn't get a kill (after killing it at the exact same ammo box spot with an AP round).


One other oddity, that I'll post about, the KV-1s cannon overshoots the sighted marks. One of the ranges on my map is set to 750 meters, but must set the KV-1s to 600 meters. Other AFV were OK (T34-85, T34-76, Su-76).
 
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And don't forget: you don't engage a Tiger from the front. You simply don't. Never. Ever. Nope. Not in a T-34/76. A Tiger's front is bad mojo. Very bad mojo.

Maybe in real life, but not in RO. As someone else said, repeated hits to the front seem able to bring it down. I also destroyed a Tiger with one frontal shot when testing with another guy.


Granted, this might not be so easy to do when the other guy is trying to kill you, but if you can drive right up to him while he has his turret turned, and pump a round throught the front, you can destroy the Tiger in one shot, trust me.



I also took a Tiger out last night by firing a shot into its flank from 500-600 meters, not sure on exact range obviously. This is more in keeping with historical results.




P.S. The HE thing seems strange indeed Mormegil, and flank shots over 500 meters shouldn't really be effective either, at leat not as far out as 750. Sounds like things need to still be fixed, but Wilson has already commented on this in the Bug Report section.
 
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HotDang said:
For what it's worth I can repeatedly kill a Tiger in 1 shot from 750m with AP from a T34. I've just confirmed this again on Mormels range. TBF I imagine I could do the same from a greater distance.

With the 85 version i think you mean, the T34 76 version the shots consistently bounce off the front and if you are speaking the truth its from the sides or rear not the front.
 
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I have read a thick book about the battle at Kursk.
Its about a T34 and tigercrew.
That book tells the story what happened at Kursk through the
eyes of these men.

There was a short explanation how this T34 crew destroyed a tiger and
i have tried it twice in ro and i was succesfully twice.

This is what i did and what was described in that book.

Drive maximum speed, begin with large circles around the tiger and
make circle shorter. The tiger gun is too slow to target you.
When you are closed enough and when you are on the back of
the tiger...shoot. Its easier when you have a good gunner with you.

Yesterday evening i was really enjoying that this tactic was working
again. I think the tigerdriver/gunner wasnt glad with me.
 
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