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Tactics Bullpup Backup

when it commes to weapons I am pretty sure it only matters how big the force is when the gun hits you

swo even if 7.62mm goes faster 50AE might just end up being worse and when it hits you

also it depends on a gun, I dont know how you can say 7.62mm fires at a known spered when I am pretty sure it might be faster with sniper erifles over those fired from AKA

besides we are talking about game balance here and yes, AK doing similar or more damage (per shot, that is) would be very overpowered
 
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when it commes to weapons I am pretty sure it only matters how big the force is when the gun hits you

You're saying accuracy is the most important aspect?

swo even if 7.62mm goes faster 50AE might just end up being worse and when it hits you

Not really, the 7.62 has a greater amount energy imparted into the target. (Energy measured in Joules) The greater speed and energy cause more trauma to the target that makes up for the smaller diameter bullet.

also it depends on a gun, I dont know how you can say 7.62mm fires at a known spered when I am pretty sure it might be faster with sniper erifles over those fired from AKA

I assumed an average length barrel (16"-20") for the 7.62 numbers. (the source@wikipedia and wolf ammo didn't specify) A 7.62x39mm round fired from a pistol will have less force than the same round fired from a rifle.

besides we are talking about game balance here and yes, AK doing similar or more damage (per shot, that is) would be very overpowered

For game balance, I'd prefer the AK to be comparable to the hand cannons for damage. Factors to consider are damage, cost, reload speed, recoil, sights, and capacity. I'd prefer the high damage and iron sights at the expense of cost and recoil. (Even with a slower reload speed, maybe the magazines are rusty and it's hard to get them in hehe)

High damage, high cost, medium reload speed (somewhere between bullpup and HCs), fair recoil, iron sights, 30-50 round magazines. So with commando perks it's slightly cheaper than two hand cannons, about the same damage, but heavier (however many blocks we have left after a bullpup) and with some good recoil making full-auto spraying difficult, especially at beyond melee range.

If the AK comes out and I'm still buying those damn hand cannons to back up my bullpup, I'll be disappointed. I want to be able to stand a chance against that chainsaw guy!
 
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You have to stop playing on normal :D

Anyway, my tactic against Scrakes is the following:

1) Protect everyone around you from the weaker enemies. Do this for the whole duration of the procedure!
2) Activate voice.
3) Say "Hey, Sharpshooter, Can you drop this Scrake here for me?"
4) (Fptoink! Scrake dies from a single Crossbow headshot)
5) Activate voice again.
6) Say "Cheers mate!"

Works on ANY difficulty where even a semi-competent Sharpshooter is present.

Works on Fleshpounds as well if you have one Sharpshooter and a Support Specialist, or just 2 Sharpshooters.
If they appear nearby, you need to decap it or ask your berserker to give you a helping hand.

That usually works. The Skrake's headshot hitbox is in the jaw/neck, though, which I think is dumb. And a Sharpshooter won't always drop one in a single shot even with a Crossbow Headshot, so you've gotta keep on your toes...
 
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That usually works. The Skrake's headshot hitbox is in the jaw/neck, though, which I think is dumb. And a Sharpshooter won't always drop one in a single shot even with a Crossbow Headshot, so you've gotta keep on your toes...

his head hitbox is not jaw nor nexk.......

snd with xbow if you hit the head even if u arent a sharpshooter it most likely drops him on both normal and hard
 
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his head hitbox is not jaw nor nexk.......

snd with xbow if you hit the head even if u arent a sharpshooter it most likely drops him on both normal and hard

If you check the tread "Guide to headshots with pictures" you should find the spot to aim for quite easily.

P.S. Please, try proofreading sometimes. Makes it a much more readable ;)
 
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If you check the tread "Guide to headshots with pictures" you should find the spot to aim for quite easily.

P.S. Please, try proofreading sometimes. Makes it a much more readable ;)

the SCRAKE (whixh you said in your post) does NOT have a ˝spot to aim for˝ on the neck

trust me I 1-hit kill scrakes in 6-man team any difficulty with an xbow shot 90% of time

the place to aim for is on his left side of the head just above the shoulder

EDIT: actualy nanostrike was the one talking about scrake, he was either mistaken or wrong, so are you
 
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the SCRAKE (whixh you said in your post) does NOT have a ˝spot to aim for˝ on the neck

Did I claim it was on the neck? :confused:

trust me I 1-hit kill scrakes in 6-man team any difficulty with an xbow shot 90% of time

Who said you don't? This is not a thread of what YOU do all the time, this was about tactics, and bullpup backup weapon. I just tried to guide people to the right thread to discuss about scrake headshot hitbox. Please, don't stay any further off topic :p

the place to aim for is on his left side of the head just above the shoulder

I thought we all agreed on it in the thread already... What are you trying to do here? :confused:

EDIT: actualy nanostrike was the one talking about scrake, he was either mistaken or wrong, so are you

Errr... :confused:

So YOU mistook me for someone else, but then realised your mistake, but still insist we BOTH are wrong because you must be right? :rolleyes:

Thanks. This made me most amused. :D
But seriously, try to calm down there. It does not do any good and makes you look like a bad troll.

Anyway, Back on Topic:

In a team game, the best bullpup backup are your teammates. There is no "I" in a "team". :cool:
 
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emotion666.

Soanos was taking about this [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=478005&postcount=33[/URL] from the thread "Guide to headshots with pictures".

Could you read the post and look at the picture? Please.

Then you can come back here and apologize to Soanos.


I ve read there and it is wrong there

yes, you are wrong and misinformed, so is soanos and nanostrike, do some research before

you guys even said it takes you more shots when hitting that spot, it ALWAYS takes 1 shot where I am

and FYI the correct scrake hitbox is in the last page of the guide to headshotshots thread


so you should be the one apologizing, since you are the ignorant smartass here

and yes I ve been doing alot more damage with bullpup shooting on his left side which again proves the REAL head hitbox is there

get your facts straight before BSing to others

oh and since you are so awesome at reading the code, how about you show us how much health scrake has on hard/6-man team, and you will see he should die in 1 headshot from xbow if you hit his head hitbox (which is not the neck/jaw area as shown in guide to headshots thread)
 
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yes, you are wrong and misinformed
I ask you again. Did you click on the link i gave you (that link you directly to post #33 with the huge picture on it)? Obviously you did not, but you still go on and on with your constant flaming and name-calling (this time tell me i am "wrong", "missinformed", "ignorant smartass", "dont have my facts straight", "BSing others" and more - wonder how much more of this i have to take before you get banished from the foums).

Anyway. Soanos was replying to this post:
his head hitbox is not jaw nor nexk.......

snd with xbow if you hit the head even if u arent a sharpshooter it most likely drops him on both normal and hard
And he did so with a suggestion to look at the thread which have huge pictures where you should aim to kill him with one arrow all the time (because if you aim at his head - as you suggested emotion666 - you will not kill him in one shot)

And for this you flame him..?! Why?

Anyway, I try to help you out by actually posting a link directly to post #33 in the thread (post with the big picture in it that show where me and Soanos aim when we one-shot scrakes with the xbow).

And for this you flame me..?! Why?

Since you seem to have some sort severe problem understanding basic English words and for some reason seem unable to klick on the link i was providing I will make it very easy for you and just show you the picture that i linked to and that Soanos was refering too.

Shot00036.bmp


There you go.

Now please stop flaming people for no reason. It is getting really old. It also make you look pretty bad and put a really depressing tone on all threads you post in.
 
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On topic, this is just my theory:

AK-47 < DHC in damage per bullet
AK-47 > DHC Iron sights
AK-47 > DHC Accuracy
AK-47 > DHC RoF
AK-47 < DHC Weight (Two Desert Eagles are about 8 lbs to AK's 9ish)
AK-47 > DHC Price (Both gun and magazine price)
AK-47 > DHC Magazine size

There's more I wanted to add to it, but that's how I think it'll play out.

I was thinking about doing Hunting Shotgun/AK-47 when it comes out (On Support Specialist), we'll just see when it does.
 
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if we are going to do comparisons of the weapon we should do on a perk where both weapons are not upgraded i.e. firebug or medic that way are results aren't biased in someway towards one weapon. Or one person with the same lvl for both perks test one weapon one round and test the other next
 
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Bullpup weight 6kg, AK47 will [probably] weight more.
Commando have 8kg to spare to reach 15/15kg.
ergo -> AK47 will [probably] weight 8kg.

With 8kg you can not use AK47 with flamethrower, crossbow, chainsaw, shotgun+hunter shotgun - so that basically rule out firebugs, sharpshooters, berserkers and support specs using the AK47 on a regular basis.

Medic might use AK47 as a primary weapon (at the cost of crossbow, chainsaw, shotgun or LAW).

AK47 will [hopefully] be more efficient in the hands of Commando to deal with scrakes, fleshpounds and the patriarch than handcannons (or chainsaw) are. AK47 will [hopefully] be their backup weapon after the patch.


However, to be a viable backup weapon for the commando at killing scrakes the AK47 need to have a damage per second before reload that is comparable to dual handcannons. AK47 also need to deal enough damage per bullet so that one clip is more than enough to bring down atleast 30% health of a six player hard Scrake (you should not need to reload during his rush).

To make Commando a viable perk when killing the Patriarch (today it is not) the AK47 (w/ Commando perk benefits) need to have a total damage done to the boss (including the "bonus" damage Commando will deal to the Patriarch during his stealth phase due to his ability to see through stealth) that is equal to the total damage crossbow headshots (w/ Sharpshooter Perk benefits) or the nade-spam + Hunter shotgun (w/ Support Spec perk benefits) deal to the Patriarch...
 
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why would the AK be a back up it should be the primary and the relegate the bullpup to back for the AK?
Depend on what you weight into "primary weapon" i guess. I used that mostly because this entire thread is called "Bullpup Backup" :)

I think [hope] that the bullpup still will be the "primary weapon" (or the go-to-weapon if you like) for the majority of Commando kills (clots, stalkers, gorefasts, bloats, crawlers) and that AK47 is a weapon you only get for later waves to deal with heavy targets such as Scrake, Fleshpounder, Patriarch and to some extend the Siren. I think [hope] that the more powerful AK47 will be my "backup weapon" - the weapon that replace dual handcannons or chainsaw (the current "backup weapons" Commando use).

(maybe we will get less clips to the AK47 or something so we don't just use it for a mindless spray and pray tactic wave after wave).


Same as when i play sharpshooter - my go-to-weapons are my pistols (9mm and sometimes handcannons) and the crossbow is the weapon i get for later waves to deal with scrake, fleshpounder, patriarch and to some extend the siren. For me the more powerful crossbow is my "backup weapon".

Or when I run as support spec. Only use the normal shotgun for the first waves and then, for later waves, i get a hunter shotgun that I can bring out when I deal with scrakes, flehspounders and the patriarch. For me the more powerful hunter shotgun is my "backup weapon".

But you are right. Using the words "primary" for the weaker weapon and "backup" for the stronger weapon might be a bit missleading i guess...? Not sure what else to call them though. Ideas?
 
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i see your point about not wasting valuable ammo on weak specimens, therefore the one you use more often is your primary i guess what i am hoping to get out of the ak is something similar to the ammo capacity of the bullpup all be it more expensive to refill all though what you posted seems more likely to happen when teh patch comes out only time will tell
 
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But you are right. Using the words "primary" for the weaker weapon and "backup" for the stronger weapon might be a bit missleading i guess...? Not sure what else to call them though. Ideas?

I think it's like, primary is like mainly. "I use bullpup as primary wep" is like "I use bullpup > 50% time"

However, to be a viable backup weapon for the commando at killing scrakes the AK47 need to have a damage per second before reload that is comparable to dual handcannons. AK47 also need to deal enough damage per bullet so that one clip is more than enough to bring down atleast 30% health of a six player hard Scrake (you should not need to reload during his rush).

Not sure if I'm 100% correct, but 1 mag bullpup can take out around 30% scrake HP. Usually, when he starts running while I got a full mag, I can kill him. Also, I'm pretty sure that shooting at "that spot" on scrake works with comando as well.

Anyway, why bother arguing? Tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, the patch will be released. Then, we all know the answer.
 
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