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Best Assault Rifle

Because there are only a handful of accounts of this happening and even of those, most are anecdotical at best. But that's the way you draw your conclusions, i forgot. Make yourself an opinion about something and then search for evidence to support that. Awesome.

Isn't that exactly what you've done?

Thanks for proving that you are trying to lecture people on a rifle you never touched and all your "knowledge" comes from what you read on the internet:
You simply adjust them with an ordinary hex key and the knobs are very visible, see for example here :http://www.rsov.com/images/product_images/aim_0149_3.jpg. I guess every German soldier spends a good half an hour shooting-in the rifle. Even you could have googled that up. And before you try to lecture me again, I know very well that this is an aftermarket thing, but it's the same on the G36.

That's not user-adjustable. You can't easily re-zero your weapon without a hex key (which I doubt if many soldiers carry) and you sure as hell can't do it in combat. Not a big point on the sights, though, I'd thought I'd just bring it up.

Also of note is the lack of backup irons, so if your optics go down or lose zero, you're ****ed.

Also, yeah, I've screwed around with a G36 (not fired, though) and fired an SL-8 a lot, I thought both felt pretty flimsy.

It's 3 times magnification for most users and the sights never fogged up on me even though I used them in a wet, woodland environment. But sheesh what do I know right? It's just that I actually used the thing. "The anti fog coating kinda sucks", care to elaborate? Personal experience?

Yes and no, I've fooled around with a G36KE RDS and, when exposed to rapidly varying conditions, would fog up (and stay fogged up) way more than, say, an Aimpoint or EOTech.

A good RDS goes for about $500 at least, and a good scope (EG, an ACOG) can break $1000 easy. $1500 is just about as much as the entire G36 unit costs, which includes the gun itself; you simply can't make such high-quality optics for that price.

Yawn, you can easily mount a bayonet on the rifle. With the LA85 or any bullpup you can't really "buttsmack" either that's why they use the barrel in case no bayonett is mounted.

The "LA85" (I think you mean "L85") has a steel receiver. Not a plastic one. It's perfectly apt to buttstroke with it.

As mentioned it's not even like you wouldn't run into any danger of wrecking an AR15 doing that and from what I've seen of the SCAR's stock, I wouldn't do it either. And still they got accepted and are in selective service now.

Both are sturdier than the G36; the M4's collapsible stock is supported by a metal buffer tube, and the SCAR's stock isn't a slouch either. Both are far cry of the G36's poly skeleton stock.

You are blowing this out of proportion anyways. Before even talking about such very secondary qualities such as being able to club someone to death, foremost, a rifle should shoot. Reliably. The AR system is not the optimum when it comes to that.

With a few small improvement (IE, not replacing the whole damn system), it would be close.

Try shooting a battle load of ammo rapidly and see how "reliable" the G36 is.

There is everything the military needs and that is what counts. In fact, show me something you can do with an AR15 that you can't do with a G36.

Replace any part with any one of hundreds of specialized different ones, potentially shoot more accurately, dump a few hundred rounds without melting, etc.

I can't think of much. The whole modding thing is a way overrated anyways due to civilian shooters.

Yeah, it must be totally overrated, considering how nearly all SOF units in the world use AR15-style rifles, partly because of the "overrated" modding potential.

There are better magazine designs than that of the G36, like for example the Steyr magazines. I don't even question that, but they are much better and more reliable than STANAGs.

No, they're more reliable than USGI STANAG magazines. STANAG is just the standard for the last few inches of the magazine, the part that goes into the mag well. There are civilian STANAG mags out there that outperform Steyr and HK's mags.

See I actually try to look at things from an objective point of view. Try that sometimes.

I see you've yet to talk to Kettle.

How often do you carry your rifle directly in front of you with much of the rest of your gear (mag pouches, slings etc.). Oh right: All of the time.

For right-handed people, the forward assist is away from you, and no, it's completely different. You manipulate and store magazines in totally different ways from your rifle.

Hahaha, barrel melting under sustained fire? Well of course you dip**** (yes I said that, I just hate people who pull facts out of their asses) all weapons do that if fired for too long.

.....

Jesus Christ...

Oh.

But anyway, if you manage to melt it you're doing something wrong

Well, "dip****", no, I'm referring to the receiver, which is critical to holding zero and makes direct contact with the outside of the chamber. It's also plastic.
 
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So a military study is anecdotical to you? Yeah right.

Now that you noticed your mistake with the user-adjustable sights you try to side-step the issue with bull**** argumentation? How sorry.

I don't believe a word you are saying: You've never even been close to a G36, you don't know jack **** about it. You have ZERO experience with it, yet talk about how it melts after a few hundred rounds. I would adress the rest of your "knowledge" but you are just not worth it: You have no military experience what-so-ever yet you are talking down on forum members who have? You are pathetic.
 
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So a military study is anecdotical to you? Yeah right.

Now that you noticed your mistake with the user-adjustable sights you try to side-step the issue with bull**** argumentation? How sorry.

It's not bull****, and holy ****, untwist your panties. Tool-adjustable sights do not mean user-adjustable. Not in the field. It wouldn't be so bad if HK had actually put BUISes on it, like every other military weapon of countries that have actually been in serious shooting conflicts since the forties.

I don't believe a word you are saying: You've never even been close to a G36, you don't know jack **** about it.

Keep in mind we're all taking your word for it that you were actually in the military, let alone in combat arms.

You have ZERO experience with it, yet talk about how it melts after a few hundred rounds.

Believe what you will, you're obviously not really open to much else.

I would adress the rest of your "knowledge" but you are just not worth it: You have no military experience what-so-ever yet you are talking down on forum members who have? You are pathetic.

In my experience, you know what military service means to me in regards to weapon knowledge? ****. All.

I've met CF infantryman that don't actually know how a C7 or C8 works, from the moment it fires to the moment it rechambers. Others that think the AK-74 and the M16 fire the same round, and various other misconceptions about firearms. Most infantrymen don't fire much more than 100 rounds a year for practice once they're out of training: that's what I fire on a slow weekend. How about we actually talk about the gun itself, not "WELL I WAS IN THE MILITARY AND I USED A G36 ONCE IN A SLIGHTLY DAMP FOREST SO OF COURSE IT WOULDN'T FOG UP IN ADVERSE WEATHER IT'S NOT A FAIR-WEATHER OPTIC AT ALL BLAH BLAH BLAH".

Shut the hell up, you'll have to do better than "well I say so".

Also, in case you are totally thick, the melting problem was most notorious with the XM8, because of the kind of torture tests the US Army puts them through. The XM8 is virtually identical to the G36 on the inside, and there've been reports of molten G36 receivers after sustained fire. I think I might even have a picture laying around somewhere.

Ugh, reading this thread is like brain poison. Too many Future Weapons viewers and people who take Nicholas Cage's character in Lord of War's ideas on how great the AK is seriously.
 
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It's not bull****, and holy ****, untwist your panties. Tool-adjustable sights do not mean user-adjustable. Not in the field. It wouldn't be so bad if HK had actually put BUISes on it, like every other military weapon of countries that have actually been in serious shooting conflicts since the forties.
Of course it's bull****.
You didn't know the G36 had screws for adjusting sights.
I show them.
You come up with new argumentation so you don't have to admit you were wrong. Besides, good luck re-zeroing a rifle in combat, lol.
Keep in mind we're all taking your word for it that you were actually in the military, let alone in combat arms.
Unlike you I can prove and back up everything I state as a fact. How about you show me a picture of you with a SL8 or G36, I can easily show some picture of me with it and in the military too. Or with an AR15 on the range for that matter.
Believe what you will, you're obviously not really open to much else.
Don't try too fool anyone. Anyone who even glimpsed over the thread will see that everything you have said so far is based on "I heard this and that" and not actual facts. But please point me to something I said which I believe and can't back up, I will show you the same vice versa.


How about we actually talk about the gun itself, not "WELL I WAS IN THE MILITARY AND I USED A G36 ONCE IN A SLIGHTLY DAMP FOREST SO OF COURSE IT WOULDN'T FOG UP IN ADVERSE WEATHER IT'S NOT A FAIR-WEATHER OPTIC AT ALL BLAH BLAH BLAH".
Lol you are such a tool the way you try to turn the tables. But I'll remind you: You are the one talking about the gun like you know it without ever using it.

Shut the hell up, you'll have to do better than "well I say so".
Oh btw. I'm still waiting for you to disprove my rediculous comments on heavy oiling. Another thing on which you made your mouth open too wide? Or what about the US norm for the rediculous dust test I showed you. Anything wise to comment on that? So yeah shut up, it's better for you.

Also, in case you are totally thick, the melting problem was most notorious with the XM8, because of the kind of torture tests the US Army puts them through. The XM8 is virtually identical to the G36 on the inside, and there've been reports of molten G36 receivers after sustained fire. I think I might even have a picture laying around somewhere.
In case you aren't totally thick the XM8 melting a was very specific torture test: The one that is meant to see what fails first. Any gun is destroyed in that test, that is not the point. The point is what fails first and when. In case of the XM8 it was indeed melting around the barrel. And the latest XM8 and the G36 are not so similar as you may think.

Ugh, reading this thread is like brain poison. Too many Future Weapons viewers and people who take Nicholas Cage's character in Lord of War's ideas on how great the AK is seriously.
Only whenever you post though.
 
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yet talk about how it melts after a few hundred rounds.


Of sustained full auto fire. Most other assault rifles can't take that either. They're not machine guns.

Only an idiot would think the G36 melts after shooting 200-300 rounds when using it as it was designed to. :rolleyes:


And as in my pic, the G36 does have a BUIS. As long as something has rails on top, you can put BUIS...
 
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It depends on the version. The one the German Army uses has no BUIS, not sure about the A2 though, never handled one. The one the Latvians use has as does the one the Spanish have (even though the latter one's are crude). It's a setup question.
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For the G36 rail/carrying handle, I think the height in between that of the C and that of the A2 would be the best.
There is a nice aluminium one like that available or pretty similar to what you described there. It is actually only a tad higher than the C's handle but slim in profile so it leaves much more space to grab the charging handle.
 
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Of course it's bull****.
You didn't know the G36 had screws for adjusting sights.
I show them.

Good work putting words in my mouth.

I said they couldn't be adjusted in the field or without tools. They don't have knobs.

You come up with new argumentation so you don't have to admit you were wrong.

Boy, who does that sound like!

Besides, good luck re-zeroing a rifle in combat, lol.

People with decent optics adjust for windage/elevation/range all the time. HK doesn't allow that, because you aren't operator enough to use a rifle with actual adjustability.

Unlike you I can prove and back up everything I state as a fact. How about you show me a picture of you with a SL8 or G36, I can easily show some picture of me with it and in the military too. Or with an AR15 on the range for that matter.

There are maybe 5-6 recent pictures of me in existence, and I don't have someone with an SLR follow me to the range or to gun shows (because I'm not a goddamn neckbeard). So no, I'm not going to find someone who owns a camera just to "show" some jackass on the internet.

Don't try too fool anyone. Anyone who even glimpsed over the thread will see that everything you have said so far is based on "I heard this and that" and not actual facts.

Boy, who does that sound like!

But please point me to something I said which I believe and can't back up, I will show you the same vice versa.

So far all you've done is say "no all your assertions that there are flaws with the G36 are wrong! HK can do no wrong! I was in the military and used it in the woods and on the range and have no real shooting experience with any other rifle to compare it to!".

Lol you are such a tool the way you try to turn the tables. But I'll remind you: You are the one talking about the gun like you know it without ever using it.

I've put a few hundred rounds through a borrowed SL8 and finger****ed a G36 before (I was fairly underwhelmed each time), but more importantly, I've fired other weapons and can compare to those.

Also, apparently you can't know about reported problems with something until you used it... my god that may be the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

Oh btw. I'm still waiting for you to disprove my rediculous comments on heavy oiling.

Never said you weren't wrong, but I think I said (or meant to say) that any problems with heavy oiling can be remedied with keeping the dust cover closed when not in use and a wipe-down of the bolt every once in a while.

Another thing on which you made your mouth open too wide? Or what about the US norm for the rediculous dust test I showed you. Anything wise to comment on that? So yeah shut up, it's better for you.

My god you're juvenile. You mean the "rediculous" dust test where the US army concluded that the results were misleading and that the M16 platform was perfectly adequate? The one where the vast majority of M4 stoppages were "minor" and took less than 10 seconds to clear, many of which were due to crappy magazines and soft extractor springs (a $15 and $10 fix, respectively)? The one where the M4 didn't have significantly more "major stoppages" than the other weapons in the trial? Is this the one that took place after less "rediciulous" dust tests that showed no large disparity between the M4 and other rifles?

Also, what does "rediculous" mean? I've seen you use it a lot and I can't seem to find it in any dictionary.

In case you aren't totally thick the XM8 melting a was very specific torture test:

And the "rediculous" dust test isn't?

The one that is meant to see what fails first. Any gun is destroyed in that test, that is not the point. The point is what fails first and when. In case of the XM8 it was indeed melting around the barrel. And the latest XM8 and the G36 are not so similar as you may think.

I would think having to replace the entire receiver and possibly the polymer bolt carrier, the bolt itself, or the barrel is a little more extreme than replacing a broken extractor and/or firing pin.
 
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So far all you've done is say "no all your assertions that there are flaws with the G36 are wrong! HK can do no wrong! I was in the military and used it in the woods and on the range and have no real shooting experience with any other rifle to compare it to!".
actually you started to derail the nice AR-15 family discussion with bashing the G36 and how bad it is
all Krazy Kraut did was explaining how different rifles handle different problems

read throught the thread a bit and you will realise that you are in in fact portraying your narzissism on other ppl

and dont you get a spelling nazi here, there are ppl from countries that dont have english as their native language, but i guess Kraut would be fine if you guys would switch to german ;)
its just sad how you have attack ppl for their spelling just to get your personal win :rolleyes:
 
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actually you started to derail the nice AR-15 family discussion with bashing the G36 and how bad it is
all Krazy Kraut did was explaining how different rifles handle different problems

Actually, I was pointing out that the G36 does, in fact, have flaws, and HK isn't god's gift to the shooting world, as people seem to believe.

read throught the thread a bit and you will realise that you are in in fact portraying your narzissism on other ppl

I don't even know what you're supposed to be saying here.

and dont you get a spelling nazi here, there are ppl from countries that dont have english as their native language, but i guess Kraut would be fine if you guys would switch to german ;)
its just sad how you have attack ppl for their spelling just to get your personal win :rolleyes:

English isn't my first language either. Try another excuse.
 
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i know, i never said anything different, but basically you complained that all he does is talk about the G36

and you are canadian, so thats a pretty different matter ;)
and why an ''excuse''?
Krauts english is pretty damned good if you compare it to the english of other Churmans
seriously, attacking people for their spelling is just a low hit!
 
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well, he has a tiny point with it

i never had a optic besides that of a Steyr AUG and normal scopes in my hands, but to have it easily user adjustable you would have to have a way to keep it from changing itself

wich would be some caps or similar you would have to unscrew before you would get access to the easy to turn parts
wich kinda defeats the purpose of needing no tools at all

getting out a key to adjust it, imo is safer than losing a cap and then losing your zero at the slightest glance
 
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So wait, using tools to adjust sights isn't the same as user adjustable? o_O
Also, Zeptorem, soldiers do carry tools with them. At least the finnish conscripts do (wow, not pros?!? can't be). If you don't, well then you're stupid.

Or it means that they don't trust their soldiers with such equipment.

Isn't this discussion about which assault rifle is the best rather pointless?

No-one have defined what criterias is to be met before the "best" assualt rifle can be proclaimed and as such it is not possible to declare a "winner" and untill there exist an commonly accepted objective description of the criterias an assault rifle must fulfill in order to qualify as the "best assault rifle" it really doesn't have any meaning to boast what assault rifle is the best.
Besides a weapon like the M4 or any other 5.56mm NATO rifle with a barrel shorter than 20" is going against the design philosophy of the very high velocity of the 5.56x45 NATO round and can't really be classified as assault rifles but more like a median between a sub machine gun and an assault rifle, perhaps name them Assault Carbines?, in which case one could argue if those short barrel 5.56x45 NATO caliber should be part of the discussion at all.
 
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I don't think there is anything left to say here, so this will be my last response to your posts. You win the internet. But to put some things in perspective:
Good work putting words in my mouth.

I said they couldn't be adjusted in the field or without tools. They don't have knobs.
You said "user-adjustable", period.


People with decent optics adjust for windage/elevation/range all the time. HK doesn't allow that, because you aren't operator enough to use a rifle with actual adjustability.
The sight is not a high class optic, I never said so. But the relevant adjustments can be made (e.g. range). We are still talking about an assault rifle, not a sniper rifle.

So far all you've done is say "no all your assertions that there are flaws with the G36 are wrong! HK can do no wrong! I was in the military and used it in the woods and on the range and have no real shooting experience with any other rifle to compare it to!".
No, that's the way you try to portray me to the rest of the forum. But it's not at all what I did and I will let the people reading this thread judge for themselves.

Also, apparently you can't know about reported problems with something until you used it... my god that may be the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.
There is a difference between the published results of a test and the hearsay-reports you are relying on. And what's more important, you draw your conclusion first and place your research accordingly.

Never said you weren't wrong, but I think I said (or meant to say) that any problems with heavy oiling can be remedied with keeping the dust cover closed when not in use and a wipe-down of the bolt every once in a while.
Every equipment a soldier carries will get dirty at one point or another, so it's definetly preferrable not to have large amounts of oil holding that dirt.


My god you're juvenile. You mean the "rediculous" dust test where the US army concluded that the results were misleading and that the M16 platform was perfectly adequate? The one where the vast majority of M4 stoppages were "minor" and took less than 10 seconds to clear, many of which were due to crappy magazines and soft extractor springs (a $15 and $10 fix, respectively)? The one where the M4 didn't have significantly more "major stoppages" than the other weapons in the trial? Is this the one that took place after less "rediciulous" dust tests that showed no large disparity between the M4 and other rifles?
The results are what they are. Your constant search for excuses won't change them.

Also, what does "rediculous" mean? I've seen you use it a lot and I can't seem to find it in any dictionary.
Wait, you call me juvenile but try to ridicule me for a minor spelling mistake in what isn't even my mother language? Low. That you are Canadian doesn't make that any different, I'm pretty sure English is a little more important in Canada than it is in Germany, no?:rolleyes:
 
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Besides a weapon like the M4 or any other 5.56mm NATO rifle with a barrel shorter than 20" is going against the design philosophy of the very high velocity of the 5.56x45 NATO round and can't really be classified as assault rifles ..


Well, an "assault rifle" doesn't mean they have to be a high velocity 5.56. 7.62x39 counts as an assault rifle round, but the velocity is not as high as 5.56 (well, I think it is).

I guess we can make our own criteria up?

I'll start with these:

Modular
Reliable
Ergonomics
Accurate
Weight
Recoil
Rate of fire
Stopping power



You guys can add more to the list.
 
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I'll continue..

- Ability to penetrate building material like bricks, timber etc. etc.

- Ability to penetrate windshields on vehicles

- Robustness - weapon, sights and pimped equipment must not fall of or break when weapon is dropped, gets caught in terrain or is used in melee combat

- No tools must be needed to field strip weapon and must also be easy and intuitive to do so.

- Must be possible to load in any firing position without moving the firing hand from the pistol grip.

- Spent cartridges should be expelled from the gun without use of ejection spring but rather works more or less like the G3 ejection system to ensure that cartridges are ejected forward and thus is not liable to eject back and hit friendlies standing beside and back of gun

- Foregrip must be able to dissipate heat effectively

- Must be effective and accurate out to at least 300 meters without the need to adjust combat sights for range

- No compromise between bullet philosophy and gun design; the bullet must perform close to the optimal performance as possible to ensure good terminal effect.

- The gun should be as 'clean' as possible without all kind of gear sticking out that can get caught or snagged in clothes, terrain or other obstacles or allow the user to cut or hurt him/herself when using the weapon.

- Easy access to chamber when cleaning gun or clearing jams

- Gun must adhere to the tactical philosophies of the forces using it; no point in having a inaccurate, high volume of fire, short range weapon if tactical doctrine dictates accurate fire on longer ranges and vice versa

- War is for men so weapon should not be made lighter or use a lighter cartridge just so female soldiers can handle them - terminal effect, range and accuracy should weigh more in the design of the gun than the physcial properties of weaker female soldiers and their ability to carry and handle the gun - the weakest link determines the strength of the chain and having a weak powered light weapon for the satisfaction of feminists or girly men jeopardises everyone in an infantrysquad.

- Bullet must be designed so when fired from the assualt rifle it causes incapacitating or cripling wounds at a distance of no less than 100 meters - contrary to the WW3 philosphy of wounding your enemy in order to bind several enemy soldiers for evacuating the wounded most conflicts today require the killing and not merely wounding of enemy personel thus bullets that do not cause incapacitating or cripling wounds allows the enemy to fight on.

Those are some of my requirements for a good assault rifle.
 
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Three requirements of an assault rifle.

- Must use a detachable box magazine.

- Capable of selective fire

and the most important

- Fire an intermediate-power cartridge, bigger than standard pistol rounds and smaller than battle rifle rounds.



Assault rifles are also an interesting weapon because of their unavailability to civilians, atleast assault rifles in their truest forms.
 
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