Thoughts about Ro2

Great post Zocks - for me it's mostly the insance prevalence of MKbs bloody everywhere that kills it for me - they are everywhere and seem to fire laser rounds that hit their target at 100m every time. It's the main thing that stops me from playing the game like I used to play RO1.

Great post. I agree with almost everything you wrote and you state your arguments very well.

I 'like' the game and I believe it has great potential still, but the fact is the game does not live up to my expectations. Oh, they definitely did a great job in many areas that are improvements from ROOST, but alot of those other gameplay additions such as those mentioned above just don't do it for me nor do I think for alot of other players.

Holy.Death said:

Good point on chooseable spawnzones, but it's only one of a few things destroying teamplay. I did play in Aliens versus Predator today and even there marines tried to play together and win, because only playing as a team (covering each other, covering different angles, etc.) they can win against teams of aliens and predators.

In Bad Company 2 I noticed that you don't really need to play as a squad member to be "good" (I mean on top of the leaderboard), so in the end I felt like playing team deathmatch where people were running around and trying to kill without any sense of teamplay. And they could be on top.

I think something similar is here - people caring only about killing other people are sitting in a "nice spot" and... acting like a bad marksmen, because good snipers and riflemen would know that they should not only sit in a "nice spot", but also help their team by picking up machine guns, snipers, keeping windows clear and so on to help their team to advance.

People have no idea that they should act like a team and as the result they do only thing they know - run and gun. When the other side is doing the same the game let them and everything turns into simple deathmatch. When someone assumes command and bring in order - squad leader keeping his unit together (that alone is not an easy task, I have to say) and acting as a team (like ordering people to cover while the rest of the team is advancing), commander cooperating with his squad leaders by sending in recon plane and asking for artillery coordinates and classes doing their job and communicating with each other - then more organized team is the winning one.

Add lack of 3D VOIP or any sensible communication with those around you AND ONLY AROUND YOU (team VOIP is far from perfect and squad VOIP is often useless, because of multiple reasons) and lack of knowledge about infantry squad tactics (or even common sense) and you'll see why people act the way they act - run and gun. Because it's only thing they know and only thing they have been learned to do when they did play in most FPS games you can find on the market.

Talking soldiers aren't too bad in my eyes. It's good when they warn your teammates that they have to reload or warn them about snipers/enemy fire or someone is shouting that they're friendlies. Problem is that sometimes soldier is speaking when he shouldn't. I really don't need my alter ego to taunt Germans to come to him/me.

Honestly speaking it's not too big problem for me and I find it more useful rather than harmful. It reminds me a bit of Left 4 Dead speaking system where the models are speaking in order in relieve the player so he doesn't need to write/speak that there is a hunter nearby, he needs to reload or he needs help and players can focus to say more important things to their teammates.

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I run and gun for my teammates. I clean rooms and buildings for them so...?

The Beast (nl) said:

I run and gun for my teammates. I clean rooms and buildings for them so...?

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I don't quite understand your question, but I will elaborate what I understand when I write "run and gun".

"Run and gun" is when you move from engagement to engagement only to find new target to kill and there is no tactic in your approach. You just search & kill people like in deathmatch.

For an example - marksman should keep openings clean for his team to approach from reasonable distance (scope help him to do so) and not everyone can do that - people who camp with their gun and try to kill someone (and kill one man for half of the round) are just bad players, because they want only to kill and their actions serve no tactical sense.

Assaults aren't going first into rooms and buildings when it's their job to be done. Engineers not destroying tanks and not making holes for their teammates to use, squad leaders not giving orders to their team and not providing coordinates for their commander when possible and so on...

With class comes purpose and you should act accordingly, if you are not doing your job then you should give it to someone else who can. Don't only kill, kill and help your team. Let your actions have some meaning bigger than making just a few kills more.

I agree with everything I read in the OP - best post on these forums I have ever seen

On the subject of Lockdown - it's got to be bugged - isn't it supposed to increase/reset if you cap objectives?

I was playing Russian on Commisar just now, we were doing pretty good for that map (which is rare for Russkis) having just the last two caps left, and 5 mins on the clock. Not bad, and actually a fighting chance - but NO, lockdown keeps ticking, 2 mins left - not a chance in hell in that time

Remove or fix the lockdown timer, it serves no purpose.

kapulA said:

Yeah, about as immersive as watching Enemy at the Gates is to anyone who has spent more than 3 hours reading about the Eastern Front.

Spoiler!

"Zey must be ahfraid to face us!"

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That is way I have set the voices to native...

I dont know, maybe its just me, but I like to have more than "bang bang arrrrgh" sounds in a war game.

I agree with most of your post... but tanking was 1player tank all the time in RO1 also...
I really love this game... the thing I miss most in RO2 are some classic maps such as Zhitomir and Kaukasus... and the big tank maps as Arad and Odessa...

You meant Orel? Not Odessa, didn't you?

Ogledow and Black Day July, I am sorry...

I'm sorry, but how can I even care how the game is unbalanced when it's simply unplayable on my high-end rig? The October 21st update was one of the reasons I uninstalled the game; TWI just blatantly quit optimizing the game and focused on less important balance and stats fixes. The funny part is that the game is quickly losing players and TWI thinks that the stats are to blame, when people who want to play the game stop playing because the game crashes, it can't maintain a decent fps on good hardware, and it stutters so badly that they end up losing the kill or get killed because of it. Does that sound like fun to anybody?

Priorities priorities...

I love the game

I love the game

i played RO1 and DH for many years and enjoyed it because it was not a run and gun FARB Fest!

i played for four years and then felt RO1 needed an upgrade.

i started to play CoD World at War, but the only way to play somewhat realistically was to play on crouch only servers. Yep, some folks instituted a rule that you could only move crouch to stop the running and gunning Farb Fests and bring some realism to the game.

Well i got tired of that because it was not RO. Then i heard the new game was coming out. I waited two years for it and could not wait to get it.

I for one am puzzled at all the negative comments, although i do remember such comments about RO1 when it first came out not being true to the Unreal Tournament original.

Believe me, this game in no way shape or form COD! Nor an arcade game.

You cannot run and gun and live long in this game.

You do not carry with you an endless supply of ammunition. If you change magazines simply to get full loads, you will end up coming back to your original magazine with only the amount of rounds that were left when you changes. There is no meter to tell you when you are out, as i have found out the hard way many times.

You still have to have team work to win, and the game is in no way just about scoring individual kill points. (have been playing as a SL and been getting a hell of a lot more points by trying to lead than any kills i made).

You still have combined arms.

Suppression is better played in this game.

The cover system is better although a little tricky to use.

You can shoot through walls and structures as oppose to being behind a bullet proof picket fence in RO1.

Still able to employ smoke.

More options for indirect fire - mortars, rockets, and artillery. Although would love to see stukas.

YOu do not have an endless supply of reinforcements.

You have to employ different techniques for attack and defense to win. And yes, being stationary in a good location if your mission is to defend is realistic and NOT camping. That is what defenders do in real life as well as counter attack. And it is funny that some say the game is to fast and run and gun and then complain about people stationary and "camping". Perhaps it is just a good balance for attack vesus defense.

The graphics are a hell of alot better for those who want the immersion feel, and if you do not want this, would you play a game with stick figures? No, of course graphics matter.

RO1 was great for its time, but now looks almost cartoonish. RO2 is magnitudes higher in quality: The artillery, the uniforms, the equipment, the way the bodies drop when hit in many ways that are realistic, the way the soldiers run carrying their weapons, the blood, tank interiors (although we need more tanks and infantry carriers). , dirt kicking up when i shoot in front of someone, damage to buildings from explosions, wounding system, the maps very detailed modeling of many areas in Stalingrad (although we need more maps and cover the entire war period, not just stalingrad).

Troops talking makes you feel like you are part of a unit and not a cartoon figure walking around with other cartoon figures.

You still have objectives that need to be taken that are not some stupid flag pole standing in the middle of some location as is the case with the arcade games.

You now have a better command system than RO1, although the SL commands need some tweaking to ensure the Fire Teams know when they are told to move and the location they are to move. Additional tweaks and the system will really allow for platoon operations with combined arms. But the same system works for tanks as well as infantry and really has TREMENDOUS POTENTIAL TO ENABLE PLATOON COMBINED ARMS OPERATIONS!

People still rush from the spawn to get back up into the action just like i remember they always did in RO1. There are still folks who try to work as a team and still lone wolfs, and Farbs playing, just as it always was in RO1. Still fast pace, but not run and gun.

IT IS STILL HARD for me to get kills. So maybe it is because i am an old Ranger, but i do not know what folks are talking about when they say the weapons are too easy to get kills.

There are still more bolt action rifles than other weapons.

There are still many options for taking down all the objectives. So teamwork and a good leader makes all the difference in the world as is the case in real life.

I like the progression of the maps where the Germans first start moving into Stalingrad and things appeared bright that they would soon take the city, to the maps of the nightmare they found themselves in the winter surrounded and fighting in the factory. I

I think there are certainly some tweaks to be made, and i am sure TW will make them.

And those saying the game has not lived up to its potential, its potential will be achieved through the Mod community. The Mod community will MAKE this game the same way it was the Mod community with new content that made RO1.

So by all means, get the SDK fixed and out there so the Mod community can go to town!!!! It was the constantly new maps and content that really kept your interest in RO1. Lets start seeing some new content since it was promised that TW was developing the game with the Mod community so new content would show up SOON after the release!

Bottom line for me is that the game is still fun as was RO1 and the MOST realistic WWII FPS out there.! Name a better one. There is not one out there? The other games are not covering WWII.

I love the WWII period because there is so much history and you can then immerse yourself into the game after reading. I loved the book Enemy at the Gates, and Hilter Moves East, as well as the Forgotten Soldier. And as for Mods, i really am hoping for DH to upgrade to this version. I loved the Ardennes maps!!!!!!

The Glass is more than Half Full and the MOD community will fill it the rest of the way andmake this game great as they did before!

So lighten up and enjoy the game, i certainly plan to be on the battlefield enjoying my German beer

Great OP.

I've put in a lot of hours into RO2 at this stage and the cracks in the game design are plain to see. I've certainly had fun playing RO2 but I sadly have a feeling that it is not going to have the longetivity of RO:OST at least for me personally.

Some of the ideas for a great game are in place but the implementation is flawed. The squad system ? Great idea... but what encourages it's use ?

I may be wrong here, but I thought one of Tripwire's reasonings was "if it is easy to do in real life, it should be easy to do in game" - at least in OST I could eventually bayonet a prone player without "YEAARGGGHHING" my intention to do so.

When I hear and people refer to grinding for their Hero status / Mkb while not attempting captures on an attacking map, alarm bells start ringing for me personally. I'm worried by the time server owners and modders get to fix things to their own taste, a lot of players will have moved on...

Good Points

Good Points

Good points to my comments.

My main point though is that there really are alot of things that have improved with this game and the old game was not the utopia some claim it was.

What is improved with RO2's command system? There are less commands than in RO ost.

Command

Command

RO2 has the command wheel to give overall commands such as attack or defend a particular objective. So the commander can tell all of his squads and any tanks in support what objectives to attack. He can send two squads on one objective, another squad on another objective.

Same applies for the SL. He can designate general attack or defend orders for his fire teams.

Also, both commander and SLs have the F key function where they can actually point to a location and tell a subordinate unit to move there. The commander can actually tell a squad to move to a specific location he designates. SL can do same for each of his individual fire teams.

YOu also have the voice wheel for all the kind of voice ques that you had in RO1.

One problem with the system is that the locations you designate only show up on the map and not the tactial view. They need to show on the tactical view and there needs to be a better means of notifying the member he has been given an order. And there needs to be a means to recognize members of your squad or fire team visually.

And the other problem is that many players do not even know these controls exist or how to use them. i only figured it out in the past week, and i have been playing since the game came out.

All of this is new and never was in RO1. And it works with tanks as well. Once they tweak it, it has tremendous potential.

olol

Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad MG-34 gameplay - YouTube

riZZo said:

Agreed with OP, however I think maps play a bigger part than most seem to realise. I can't wait for some custom maps, but then again I think mappers are hindered greatly at the moment when it comes to designing anything other than Danzig style meat grinder maps mainly due to the game only having 2 vehicles, and no troop transports, which I think hurts a lot.

Mappers have their work cut out IMO.

Good to see SPLAT is still going, you managed to get rid of Duck yet?

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err no still here, the upswell of support as one of Ros finest players forced me not to retire - sadly I think RO2 has managed to do it for me

HI RIZZO

Agreed OP. I requested to be transferred to our units reserve gruppe since I don't play RO2 anymore. When doing so, it seems everyone has the same exact feelings as what you have stated. I rarely see one of the 40ish (ones that haven't quit yet) playing RO2 at all. Many are waiting though as with time and SDK, the game could improve or mods make it better. However, as for now, I am afraid there just isn't a lot of players.

I was addicted to the game for about 2-3 weeks then overnight, couldn't find any enjoyment in it. On the plus side, some of us in the unit have subscribed to WW2 OL and are finding that to be a great change of pace. That game is still fun over it's course of 10 years.