• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Authentic Ballistics & Sniping

Not sure why only the best snipers would get the PU scope, cause technically I dont see it being any better than the PEM scope.
True the PEM scope was quite better than the PU,the Soviets tried to make something with a more modern look resulting in the PU. Here is what the Stalingrad museum creator said regarding Zaitsevs PU rifle "When Zaitsev was recovering from his injurys this rifle was handpicked for him and this new rifle was only given to the best snipers of the divisions" Funny enough reports showed the Soviet snipers wanted the PEM back because it offered a wider field of view than the PU and easier eye relief.
kind regards
 
Upvote 0
At the same time I'd also like to see the German 6x power Zielsechs series scope on the German rifle ingame, and preferably with either the std. German nr.8 or Nr.4 reticle, like on these two Zielsech scopes below:

German Std. Nr.8
zielsechs1.jpg


German Std. Nr.4
zielsechsreticlenr4.jpg
 
Upvote 0
Telescope reticles

Telescope reticles

Anyway, I was wondering what types of reticles are to be used on the German & Russian scopes, so I was hoping maybe a Developer could clear it up? The place holders shown in the so far published videos are definitely not correct for either German or Russian scopes, that is for sure.

First of all very few German scopes featured the somewhat dull pointed three post reticle, this was limited to some early ZF-39 scopes where it functioned as a range finder (width of point represents width of a human at 500 meters). The far majority of German scopes however featured a sharply pointed three post German Absehen nr.1 reticle, as shown below:

WW2 Zeiss 4x Zielvier scope reticle:


WW2 Dialytan 4x Zielvier scope reticle:


WW2 Zeiss & Hensoldt 8x Zielacht scope reticle:


Additionally a very large amount of German scopes featured the German Absehen nr.4 reticle:

WW2 Hensoldt 6x Zielsechs scope reticle:


Also very common was the German Absehen nr.8 reticle:

WW2 Dialytan 6x Zielsechs scope reticle:


WW2 Hensoldt 6x Zielsechs scope reticle:


I suggest using either the German Absehen nr.4 or nr.8 reticles for the German scope ingame, they were the second most used reticles in German scopes, and using either one would give some realistic variation between the German & Russian scope ingame. The sharp pointed Absehen nr.1 reticle as shown in the first pictures would be acceptable as-well ofcourse, being the most common, but using either the nr.4 or nr.8 which together were nearly just as common would be more attractive IMO as it would introduce abit more variation.

The Russian PU scope only featured one type of reticle, a sharp pointed three post reticle, and ofcourse I'm expecting this to be used, it never featured any form of range finding capability.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Krator
Upvote 0
If they upgraded the ingame German scope to a six power Zielsechs I bet it would make a lot of people excited, I know I would be :D

For now though I just hope they stay true to the ballistics of the real things, using the correct ballistic coefficients etc etc.

They could in later patches ofcourse add things such as a 6x Zielsechs Scoped Karabiner 98k, or maybe even the longer K98b, and a PE or PEM scoped Mosin 91/30.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 213
Upvote 0
A good amount of time ago I promised some pictures of the 7.92mm s.S. bullets I had pulled from their casings. So here's some pictures of the first bullets I pulled. They got a little "squashed" on the sides because I didn't have a kinetic bullet puller at the time, but I don't think it's that noticable.

Primary link: http://imageshack.us/g/195/083rs.jpg/







PS: I took these pictures with the mobile phone camera, hence the poor clarity. I left the big cam in the camper, but I'll have it back here soon for some better pictures. I also have a new kinetic bullet puller coming with the mail next week, since I'll be doing a lot of re- handloading this summer, so I'll be able to pull the bullets without any danger of squashing them again. (lost my old one when we moved last summer :-/ )
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Oldih and Hobitt
Upvote 0
Alright, finally got a hold on my bigger Sony camera, so here are the high quality pictures I promised. As one can see these rounds are of superb build quality, and keep in mind that these are over 70 years old.





I will post some more up close pictures of the sS projectile itself once my new kinetic bullet puller arrives, then I'll be able to pull these bullet without scratching or squashing them in the process, and I'll finally be able to reload some of these bullets into casings with modern non corrosive primers again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Krator and 213
Upvote 0
Unus Offa, Unus Nex So now your even doubting an actual German Veteran of Stalingrad? You really cant accept the facts can you.... Im having trouble replying to such nonsense sorry - Have you ever fired a rifle,yet original WWII sniper rifles like I have? I know guys who have traveled to the Tula and Izhevsk factorys and have all the docs. how the m91/30 sniper rifle were made - hand selected barrels,hand fitted scope setups etc... As far as I know the only special ammo German snipers were using was explosive bullets - pretty sick if you ask me,Read V.Zaitsevs memoirs and you will see the horrible damage these bullets did to the Russians. The common German scope in Stalingrad was not that crap 1.5X ZF but the 4X Zeiss and Dialtyn - look at photos of German snipers in Stalingrad or the scopes in Moscow Armed forces museum that V.Zaitsev took as trophys - All 4X big scopes.

This is where your really making me laugh - and where you lost all credability,Are you not aware that the PU scope setup can be removed from the rifle with just turning the main screw with your fingers and it will not lose zero - And dont try to tell me otherwise because I own several original m91/30 PU sniper rifles.

Sepp Allerberger's book? You couldnt pay me to read it,The nonsense ive heard thats written in that book is laughable,Russian soldiers eating their dead comrades - I wont even go any further what a lie,the author is an obvious anti Communist,I wouldnt trust anything he writes. All he did was take some notes from a few interviews he did with Allerberger and jumble them together,Why is it that initially Allerberger refused to let his real name be used in the book? Im not debating rather a bullet explodes a head,but that WWII vets do not talk that way! Ive read 1st hand accounts of many Soviet snipers and a few German snipers,Not ONE talks in such a manner - saying "I looked through the 4X PU scope and seen his head explode like a watermelon" Authors fantasy. What a real sniper say's which you can read in memoirs would be something like "I squeezed the trigger and watched his head fall back" Fact is killing was not fun for these guys and Allerberger especially had trouble post war because of what he had seen/done and I seriously doubt he got into such graphic details in these interviews,End of conversation.

Vassili Zaitsev said in his short story from 1943 that his m91/30 PEM was better than a Scoped k98 - what do you say to that? Because Zaitsev said that it must be a fact right,right? No its not its an opinion,do you know what an opinion is? What Sepp said (if he said it) is an opnion just as Zaitsevs. And who the heck wants to mess with a key to adjust for windage when the Russian scope just requires your fingers,really. Your talking about stuff you dont even know about,You dont even own a m91/30 PU yet your talking all this stuff that you cant simply remove the scope and pack it away when you can with 3 turns. All you know is nonsense you read online - and have that typical attitude that "Germans are #1 no questions asked" Well that aint true. An original m91/30 PU is capable of hitting a man sized target out to 800 yards with no problem - consistently,Ive done it many times. I know my sniper rifles.
1943 PU - WWII served,Ukrainian National Police issued post war


Now show me one of your 100 percent original WWII k98 or m91/30 sniper rifles? Until you show me an original WWII sniper rifle you own your opinion does not matter to me,with no 1st hand experiance.

And do I need to mention again that the m91/30 PU is in front line service with the Russian Army today?


Wheres the scoped k98?
They actually did that on Finnish front, so I bet it happened in Stalingrad too.
Russian_Ribs_-_Winter_War.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_Ribs_-_Winter_War.jpg

I have two Mosin-Nagant rifles and I must say that it's very, very crude design compared to Kar98k.
nugget5.jpg


Trigger is horrible, feeding is unreliable for bolt-action rifle, the bolt is very stiff (I actually cut away part of the firing pin springs on both my rifles to make it lighter to operate) and the overall build quality is not very high.

It's true that Mosin-Nagant can be very accurate rifle but it requires very good barrel just like with any other rifle.

edit: Russian WW2-era ammo is ****, just like others pointed out here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
and aop, is the 2nd rifle a russian build?
the fore sights of the mosin's just ****. those in RO1 were not accurately modeled i reckon
The one on the left is Soviet M44 and the one on the right is Finnish M39.

I don't personally have any problems with either Finnish or Soviet open sights except that the Soviet sight needs hammer if you want to adjust the windage.
 
Upvote 0
Hey Unus, since you have the old WW2 7.92mm sS, do you know what the MoA accuracy rating of the Kar98k is? I know that present-day Rifles are typically rated as 2-MoA with commercial ammo... but just wondering if you have any estimation on the accuracy of a WW2-Era Kar98k with it's appropriate ammunition.

As a side note, I have references that suggest most Mosins during WW2 feeding Light Ball were between 2 and 4 MoA, depending on quality, and that the SVT-40 is between 2.5 MoA for a good Rifle, and up to a horrid 7 MoA for bad quality.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
The one on the left is Soviet M44 and the one on the right is Finnish M39.

I don't personally have any problems with either Finnish or Soviet open sights except that the Soviet sight needs hammer if you want to adjust the windage.

yea mate, i got pretty annoyed trying to zero mine with the hammer and brass rod.

i find the fore sight post too thick. it kind of fit too snugly with the rear sights when aiming.
 
Upvote 0
Hey Unus, since you have the old WW2 7.92mm sS, do you know what the MoA accuracy rating of the Kar98k is? I know that present-day Rifles are typically rated as 2-MoA with commercial ammo... but just wondering if you have any estimation on the accuracy of a WW2-Era Kar98k with it's appropriate ammunition.

As a side note, I have references that suggest most Mosins during WW2 feeding Light Ball were between 2 and 4 MoA, depending on quality, and that the SVT-40 is between 2.5 MoA for a good Rifle, and up to a horrid 7 MoA for bad quality.

In my experience the average K98k in good condition shoots around 1 MOA in 5 round groups when shooting good quality heavy ball ammunition, but can easily do better than this if the ammunition and rifle are in prestine condition. Another way to increase the accuracy of the K98k and still keep it in an authentic condition is to free float the barrel within the stock, something German gunsmiths did to the designated sniper rifles (as-well lightening the trigger pull to the preference of the sniper)

By comparison the average Mosin in good condition does around 3
 
Upvote 0
Thanks for the info Unus :) Maybe during the Beta we can look into this kind of stuff - downrange drop and weapon spread - and see if Tripwire's got it about right.

Sorry to say guys, but apart from minor differences, the snipers will probably act the same, just like in RO1.
Well I hope that's not entirely true, but we'll find out.
The spread of RO1 Bolts (for reference) is:
Kar98k / Mosin - 50
Kar98k / Mosin Snipers - 30
M38 Mosin - 60
M44 Mosin - 50 (yep)
PTRD - 75

I mean, yea, the Mosins shouldn't be as accurate as the Kar98ks, but atleast they're right in implementing that the chosen Sniper variants are more accurate than standard Rifles.
It's probably for balance that the Mosins are as accurate as the Kar98ks.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0