Tactics To weld or not to weld?
- Thread starter Steeps
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I'm a fan of welding but there are a million ways it can be done wrong. Recycling some bits from other threads..
Common mistakes:
Mass-kills lead to mass-spawns. Holding a weld until a big mass of zeds forms can be a great way to kill 35 zeds at once. Unfortunately that means there will be an accelerated spawn of zeds for the next minute. The main team that handled the weld-break might be fine but a teammate holding a flank on his own might get overrun.
People assume that because they have the spare manpower to hold a door that they'll always have that spare manpower. If you have crap piled up you better be ready for it to pop at the worst possible moment. When is the worst possible moment? When your team is getting crushed..maybe an FP showed up. That also happens to be the moment when your welder is most likely to stop welding to come help the team...thereby increasing the chances of the catastrophic break.
Welding during Patty...ah. You know when I get asked "why not?" in a game I usually don't answer. I bust out the popcorn and watch. We're about to see some comedy gold! Good times.
A couple random times when welding is good...
When someone is late coming up from the furthest trader on WestLondon. Cuz it's dark down there and that sh1t is funny.
Mid-wave when you need to buy 20 seconds for everyone to double-reload and heal. It's rare the circumstances where this can be achieved but in those cases it can save the wave.
3rd floor of Office. That long hall. The two doors on the side. Always weld those since it shuts off the spawns behind them without restricting an avenue of escape. There are other one-off spots here and there where this works.
When you're running back to your fortified position from a late trader. Throw a small 25% or so weld on the doors on your way back. It will buy time for your stragglers and stop them from getting pinned down away from the team.
In Waterworks in the "magic bus room" there are two sets of double doors. For flow control we'll let them build behind one door while leaving the other open as a nice bottleneck. When the welded door starts getting soft (or zed flow gets reduced indicating you're approaching max) well lock the open set of doors to free up some manpower then blow the welded ones. After we clear the rush we'll reopen the temporary weld. This particular spot doesn't carry a great risk should the door blow unexpectedly...a bit of an exception to the rule above.
Put partial welds on your flanks at the start of a map. This allows you to concentrate fire in one direction at a time until the start of map rush is over. Put say 0% in one direction, 25% in another, then 75% in a third. This makes the zeds show up in a bit more orderly fashion. Never really go above a partial weld though and absolutely do not maintain the weld. You'll just put yourself at high risk of a blowout that you can't handle.
In the examples above I've learned the hard way how to do it right. Expect to screw it up a few times and don't try it unless your team is onboard.
If you have pipes to spare..
One pipe in, one pipe out, 100% weld on the door (do not maintain weld...see mass-spawn above).
On patty... two pipes in, two pipes out, do NOT weld door...or at least tell the pipe owner to do it..comedy gold man.
Common mistakes:
Mass-kills lead to mass-spawns. Holding a weld until a big mass of zeds forms can be a great way to kill 35 zeds at once. Unfortunately that means there will be an accelerated spawn of zeds for the next minute. The main team that handled the weld-break might be fine but a teammate holding a flank on his own might get overrun.
People assume that because they have the spare manpower to hold a door that they'll always have that spare manpower. If you have crap piled up you better be ready for it to pop at the worst possible moment. When is the worst possible moment? When your team is getting crushed..maybe an FP showed up. That also happens to be the moment when your welder is most likely to stop welding to come help the team...thereby increasing the chances of the catastrophic break.
Welding during Patty...ah. You know when I get asked "why not?" in a game I usually don't answer. I bust out the popcorn and watch. We're about to see some comedy gold! Good times.
A couple random times when welding is good...
When someone is late coming up from the furthest trader on WestLondon. Cuz it's dark down there and that sh1t is funny.
Mid-wave when you need to buy 20 seconds for everyone to double-reload and heal. It's rare the circumstances where this can be achieved but in those cases it can save the wave.
3rd floor of Office. That long hall. The two doors on the side. Always weld those since it shuts off the spawns behind them without restricting an avenue of escape. There are other one-off spots here and there where this works.
When you're running back to your fortified position from a late trader. Throw a small 25% or so weld on the doors on your way back. It will buy time for your stragglers and stop them from getting pinned down away from the team.
In Waterworks in the "magic bus room" there are two sets of double doors. For flow control we'll let them build behind one door while leaving the other open as a nice bottleneck. When the welded door starts getting soft (or zed flow gets reduced indicating you're approaching max) well lock the open set of doors to free up some manpower then blow the welded ones. After we clear the rush we'll reopen the temporary weld. This particular spot doesn't carry a great risk should the door blow unexpectedly...a bit of an exception to the rule above.
Put partial welds on your flanks at the start of a map. This allows you to concentrate fire in one direction at a time until the start of map rush is over. Put say 0% in one direction, 25% in another, then 75% in a third. This makes the zeds show up in a bit more orderly fashion. Never really go above a partial weld though and absolutely do not maintain the weld. You'll just put yourself at high risk of a blowout that you can't handle.
In the examples above I've learned the hard way how to do it right. Expect to screw it up a few times and don't try it unless your team is onboard.
If you have pipes to spare..
One pipe in, one pipe out, 100% weld on the door (do not maintain weld...see mass-spawn above).
On patty... two pipes in, two pipes out, do NOT weld door...or at least tell the pipe owner to do it..comedy gold man.
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haha I was referring to when you're alone and the Patty is chasing you. sometimes shutting a door and welding it 10% or so buys you an extra second or two to get away.
I pretty much agree with that, I guess. It DOES have its situational uses. The problem is - even on suicidal - just about every game has at least 2-3 people who insist on welding every single door. It should be done when necessary, not as some sort of pre-wave ritual.
I'm trying to come up with a good way to play like this since this is how most maps with lots of doors turn out. Guess I could stuck up on grenades and start chucking them but that just pisses everyone else off.
Thanks for the welding tips, though, I'll get around to trying it when I get another chance to play.
I pretty much agree with that, I guess. It DOES have its situational uses. The problem is - even on suicidal - just about every game has at least 2-3 people who insist on welding every single door. It should be done when necessary, not as some sort of pre-wave ritual.
I'm trying to come up with a good way to play like this since this is how most maps with lots of doors turn out. Guess I could stuck up on grenades and start chucking them but that just pisses everyone else off.
Thanks for the welding tips, though, I'll get around to trying it when I get another chance to play.
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Steeps realize that there may very well be others on the server thinking the same thing as you, "Man that's a stupid place to weld..but live and let live right?"
I find sometimes if I just make a single one line chat that others will chime in agreement and the behavior stops..
"mass-kill = mass-respawn. Careful building too much up behind that door"
And really if it's just a bad bad idea and people are gonna get killed...put 5% and grenade it before the wave starts (bad form to do after someone is working with the door).
I find sometimes if I just make a single one line chat that others will chime in agreement and the behavior stops..
"mass-kill = mass-respawn. Careful building too much up behind that door"
And really if it's just a bad bad idea and people are gonna get killed...put 5% and grenade it before the wave starts (bad form to do after someone is working with the door).
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As long as the maximum number of spawned specimens is only 30+, it is just faster and better to just kill them as they show up. Once a team has to repel 80+ spawned specimens, my opinion may change.
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I generally only weld if I'm running for my life and need to hold them off for a few seconds. Also, welding doors on my friends while we're running to the trader.
Other than that I don't really like to.
Other than that I don't really like to.
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I think welding is incredibly good when a player needs to distance himself from the rushing Patriarch... fast.
Unwelding a door and HSG comboing them is effective for a skilled support especially when he has 1 more guy with him for that extra mop-up.
Unwelding a door and HSG comboing them is effective for a skilled support especially when he has 1 more guy with him for that extra mop-up.
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/thumbsup
I think it's awesome to watch someone try this.
Something that works just as well but is far less hilarious to watch is just closing the door. It will break his sprint for a second but won't cause him to immediately rocket the door (and the 20ft radius on the far side of it).
If he's close enough that shutting the door doesn't save you then he's close enough that you'd die during the weld attempt.
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doit sometimes
doit sometimes
I have a few issues with nearly all anti welding posts, and I'm going to voice them now. Not all of these may be aimed at the op:
1) Anti welders act as if we are shoving bamboo shivs under welders toenails forcing them to do it. Guess what? Some people enjoy it! Some people do it because they want to! Just because you find it boring doesn't mean the guy that welds willingly does.
2) I'm for controlled welding. Since I stepped out of beginner I realized that picking a one way hallway and welding one door and defending the other end is a bad idea. But in rooms that have three or four (possibly more, I'm thinking of the spawn area in waterworks but I could be wrong) welding one door to stem the tide isn't a bad idea. You still have two or three escape routes if needed.
3) Who says you have to constantly be welding the door? Weld it, kill other mobs, let it break, then continue as usual. Its all in stemming the tide. Just because a chunk of enemies comes at the same time doesn't mean you have to kill them all at the same time. "But the smoke obscures my vision blah blah blah". Theres nothing inside that plume of smoke that can't be killed with a pile of grenades from two players. The smoke isn't really that bad guys.
4) Please stop blowing up welds just for griefings sake. If the weld is going to kill you, blow it and discuss it with your teammate afterwards as to why you think it was a bad idea. Don't just spot a welded door and be like "F this guy, I hate welds!". Because at the end of the day, its his choice to do what he will in his game (Griefing isn't defended by this blanket statement, so don't go there) . I know people don't like that excuse but its the best one we have.
This is a preference argument though, nothing can win here. So I think we can all agree on this:
Us welders: We will stick to welding unimportant doors (like in office), and doors in rooms with more than three exits. We will talk with the team before any welding takes place.
You ant-welders: Realize its a tactic some people enjoy. Discuss tactics on how to enhance your style of play with welding that wont impede you. And no weld blowing when unnecessary!
edit: wording
doit sometimes
I have a few issues with nearly all anti welding posts, and I'm going to voice them now. Not all of these may be aimed at the op:
1) Anti welders act as if we are shoving bamboo shivs under welders toenails forcing them to do it. Guess what? Some people enjoy it! Some people do it because they want to! Just because you find it boring doesn't mean the guy that welds willingly does.
2) I'm for controlled welding. Since I stepped out of beginner I realized that picking a one way hallway and welding one door and defending the other end is a bad idea. But in rooms that have three or four (possibly more, I'm thinking of the spawn area in waterworks but I could be wrong) welding one door to stem the tide isn't a bad idea. You still have two or three escape routes if needed.
3) Who says you have to constantly be welding the door? Weld it, kill other mobs, let it break, then continue as usual. Its all in stemming the tide. Just because a chunk of enemies comes at the same time doesn't mean you have to kill them all at the same time. "But the smoke obscures my vision blah blah blah". Theres nothing inside that plume of smoke that can't be killed with a pile of grenades from two players. The smoke isn't really that bad guys.
4) Please stop blowing up welds just for griefings sake. If the weld is going to kill you, blow it and discuss it with your teammate afterwards as to why you think it was a bad idea. Don't just spot a welded door and be like "F this guy, I hate welds!". Because at the end of the day, its his choice to do what he will in his game (Griefing isn't defended by this blanket statement, so don't go there) . I know people don't like that excuse but its the best one we have.
This is a preference argument though, nothing can win here. So I think we can all agree on this:
Us welders: We will stick to welding unimportant doors (like in office), and doors in rooms with more than three exits. We will talk with the team before any welding takes place.
You ant-welders: Realize its a tactic some people enjoy. Discuss tactics on how to enhance your style of play with welding that wont impede you. And no weld blowing when unnecessary!
edit: wording
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Smilin: haha yeah I agree the Patty strategy is fun and I've seen people use it super effectively. I never do it myself, though, since I always wind up fumbling through items and botching it somehow.
noupperlobeman: I'm never a jerk about it. In the matter of fact one of the main reasons I play KF is because the community is generally friendlier, more mature and puts less pressure on you compared to most other games. If you want to weld all of my escape routes go ahead, but if I feel I might need to utilize them I might take them down. Play the way you want and I will play the way I want. "Boring" isn't the problem I have with it (though I agree it is more boring with every door welded)
noupperlobeman: I'm never a jerk about it. In the matter of fact one of the main reasons I play KF is because the community is generally friendlier, more mature and puts less pressure on you compared to most other games. If you want to weld all of my escape routes go ahead, but if I feel I might need to utilize them I might take them down. Play the way you want and I will play the way I want. "Boring" isn't the problem I have with it (though I agree it is more boring with every door welded)
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