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New Zed: The Brute

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#21
Slappy Cromwell said:
That is regular Fleshpound behavior. Any specimens caught in the path of a raging Fleshpound take damage, even gibbing the weaker ones. I'm surprised to hear that this was left in. This Brute is beginning to sound (and look) more and more like a minor Fleshpound derivative. I was hoping for something more original.
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i did disable the fear and avoid area and everything for the brute - so that he wouldnt kill clots, and they wouldnt be scared of him, but it turned out to be a rnightmare, as clots would block his path and therefore render his charging throw attack useless - as he wouldnt be able to get passed them

and besides, he is classed as a big zed, so he should be able to trample the smaller ones if hes angry just like other big zeds.

This guy is like a smaller version of a flesh pound, but with a twist, and a very very fun one (ours doesnt do boring damage). his throw will make other more usless zombies more of a threat as you sometimes get tossed into a horde of them. And he will force your group to move around and make tactical decisions on those movements

in game his rage mechanics are different from the FP - the brute has a considerably smaller temper than the FP - all i can say is, wait and see :) i really hope you like it

His animations are being made more unique as we speak to take out some of the ones you have seen in the video which were ripped from FP

we certainly are going for originality - but also to enhance gameplay, we are bored of the way players barricade themselves in certain areas of maps and head shot wave after wave - we didnt want to make a zombie that just walked with those other headshot magnets. we wanted to make something to break those barracades, we saw the most balanced way of doing this was with a melee character - to used ranged, cloaked, crawling or flying just didnt suit.
 
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#22
Hemi said:
lol I didnt say it was raging, it floored the zed in front of him in normal mode.
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That won't magically happen on its own. This is the Fleshpound's rage-specific behavior. Seeing as the Brute is based in more ways than one on the Fleshpound, this shouldn't be all too surprising to you.

webley said:
i did disable the fear and avoid area and everything for the brute - so that he wouldnt kill clots, and they wouldnt be scared of him, but it turned out to be a rnightmare, as clots would block his path and therefore render his charging throw attack useless - as he wouldnt be able to get passed them
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That doesn't sound good. Unless you make Brutes exceptionally rare during a wave, perhaps as much as Fleshpounds, they're just going to rip through other specimens and dramatically reduce the amount of enemies the players actually have to face. And for what? Is plowing through and instantly killing a horde of Clots and Gorefasts really worth shoving the player twice in the opposite direction? You yourself say that a Brute won't be as strong or deadly as a Fleshpound, so is the trade off of the amount of specimen teamkills versus the Brute's damage output justified?

This isn't an issue in the case of a Fleshpound since he's relatively uncommon and capable of nigh insta-kills, so the loss of some weak specimens in the process isn't felt. However, a common weaker specimen taking out other weaker specimens to perform a weak attack is silly. Aside from wiping out his lesser brethren, I can also easily see the Brute actually causing more specimen congestion by getting into friendly fire battles with Scrakes and Fleshpounds that are so prone to blocking narrow halls and doorways and such.

Here's a better idea: instead of using the Fleshpound's unaltered rage behavior and allowing the Brute to instantly kill weaker specimens that he charges through, how about making him simply push them all to the side unharmed? This is precisely what the Husk does with his fireballs (with a bit of cheating, but I digress), and indeed you rarely see specimens getting hit in the crossfire.
 
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#23
Slappy Cromwell said:
That won't magically happen on its own. This is the Fleshpound's rage-specific behavior. Seeing as the Brute is based in more ways than one on the Fleshpound, this shouldn't be all too surprising to you.

That doesn't sound good. Unless you make Brutes exceptionally rare during a wave, perhaps as much as Fleshpounds, they're just going to rip through other specimens and dramatically reduce the amount of enemies the players actually have to face. And for what? Is plowing through and instantly killing a horde of Clots and Gorefasts really worth shoving the player twice in the opposite direction? You yourself say that a Brute won't be as strong or deadly as a Fleshpound, so is the trade off of the amount of specimen teamkills versus the Brute's damage output justified?

This isn't an issue in the case of a Fleshpound since he's relatively uncommon and capable of nigh insta-kills, so the loss of some weak specimens in the process isn't felt. However, a common weaker specimen taking out other weaker specimens to perform a weak attack is silly. Aside from wiping out his lesser brethren, I can also easily see the Brute actually causing more specimen congestion by getting into friendly fire battles with Scrakes and Fleshpounds that are so prone to blocking narrow halls and doorways and such.

Here's a better idea: instead of using the Fleshpound's unaltered rage behavior and allowing the Brute to instantly kill weaker specimens that he charges through, how about making him simply push them all to the side unharmed? This is precisely what the Husk does with his fireballs (with a bit of cheating, but I digress), and indeed you rarely see specimens getting hit in the crossfire.
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I think he allready does that in the new beta release. He doesnt kill other specimens anymore...I believe. He moves arround the other specimens. He ocasionally takes one down in a wave.

And yes, the idea is that he doesnt appear that often in a wave.

We can always fidle arround with the settings. Were now working on making him less FP in the animations. Which has worked. Also the blocking bullets with arms is currently giving us headakes. It works offline, only on a dedicated server it doesnt seem to work. grrrr Were getting there though, and we will let people try it out soon. :)
 
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#24
Slappy Cromwell said:
That won't magically happen on its own. This is the Fleshpound's rage-specific behavior. Seeing as the Brute is based in more ways than one on the Fleshpound, this shouldn't be all too surprising to you.

That doesn't sound good. Unless you make Brutes exceptionally rare during a wave, perhaps as much as Fleshpounds, they're just going to rip through other specimens and dramatically reduce the amount of enemies the players actually have to face. And for what? Is plowing through and instantly killing a horde of Clots and Gorefasts really worth shoving the player twice in the opposite direction? You yourself say that a Brute won't be as strong or deadly as a Fleshpound, so is the trade off of the amount of specimen teamkills versus the Brute's damage output justified?

This isn't an issue in the case of a Fleshpound since he's relatively uncommon and capable of nigh insta-kills, so the loss of some weak specimens in the process isn't felt. However, a common weaker specimen taking out other weaker specimens to perform a weak attack is silly. Aside from wiping out his lesser brethren, I can also easily see the Brute actually causing more specimen congestion by getting into friendly fire battles with Scrakes and Fleshpounds that are so prone to blocking narrow halls and doorways and such.

Here's a better idea: instead of using the Fleshpound's unaltered rage behavior and allowing the Brute to instantly kill weaker specimens that he charges through, how about making him simply push them all to the side unharmed? This is precisely what the Husk does with his fireballs (with a bit of cheating, but I digress), and indeed you rarely see specimens getting hit in the crossfire.
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i like this idea and will look into it, i will miss him occasionally killing clots tho, as when he charges at you killing clots in his path i did add to the atmosphere of a violent brute

ill see if your suggested tradeoffs are worth the loss of atmosphere - atmosphere in a game is just as important as game play - but i cant see why this wouldnt be possible - ill put this in my suggested changes list - its not like he was killing thousands of clots before he got to his target - just one or two every now and then

side note - he doesnt just push/throw you twice anymore - now he keeps throwing you till hes been killed and doesnt break out of rage

please before you comment on this mechanic i would like you to play it when we open a closed beta to outside members of the wolfpackclan (invites only) - we are not far off - ill put you down on the list of names

alot of the tradeoffs your specifying are actually worth it - the throw is so random, it can do good and bad things for a player - but ultimately making players move around if they wish to stay with their group or avoid danger - splitting up a group for just a small period of time can quickly produce a squad wipe out if the players do not react tactfully - the throw also contributes to where players will want to "hold out" on maps - some map points with a brute running around turn into "death threatening drops" instead of a "life saving hold outs"

but like i said, i got you down as someone for closed beta - so you can provide your feedback during the balancing phase after we fix some of the other important features like the headblock - if you shot him he rages and doesnt break out of it, so getting a head shot to put this guy down before a rage starts becomes important - but he\will block headshots from the front; again to encourage players to move around to find the head shot - so this causes a whole new wave of tactical gameplay conversation between me and you :)

just wait and see....
 
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#28
Ok guys here's a headsup.

We had run in a little problem in the dedicated server side of the Brute, but we fixed it thanx to Braindead and Benjamin. (blocking headshots, its working like a charm now. You can only HS him from the side[<--though one] and back of the head)

We got it working propper again, and are currently tweaking the code sothat people can hopefully get into a closed Beta soon, so watch the boards and PM's. We really need you guys to test it propper and get all the bugs out.

Were working on this every evening now, and getting allot of help all over the place. Of which im very grateful of.

Release-date is set for next week, but we could run into some trouble here and there so dont pin us down on it.

Thanx, and hang in there! The Brute will soon come Home, and hopefully join a few waves here and there. ;)
 
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#32
Braindead worked all night on this yesterday, and It looks like were heading into Beta testing soon. Im just waiting for everybody to wake up lol, cous its been a very long night. If we dont get into any problems today, ill post here the code sentence "its a go!" and you guys will know were sending out PM's and doing secret stuff lol. :D
 
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#33
Hemi said:
Braindead worked all night on this yesterday, and It looks like were heading into Beta testing soon. Im just waiting for everybody to wake up lol, cous its been a very long night. If we dont get into any problems today, ill post here the code sentence "its a go!" and you guys will know were sending out PM's and doing secret stuff lol. :D
Click to expand...

Kindly include me! :D
 
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#36
Ok guys, Online the Brute works like a charm....Offline however, aaaarg. Were working on the problem. It seems the punching of the Brute makes the texture dissapear. Really strange... But we got Benjamin and Braindead working on it, our little dreamteam haha, and we might have found a sollution. But it would mean backtracking a few things.

Since nobody really tried this adding new specimens thing with custom meshes/attacks/animations were in the dark most of the times, trying to figure things out with our small team....so please bare with us hehe. Were working as fast as we can right now. :)
 
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#37
Hemi said:
Ok guys, Online the Brute works like a charm....Offline however, aaaarg. Were working on the problem. It seems the punching of the Brute makes the texture dissapear. Really strange... But we got Benjamin and Braindead working on it, our little dreamteam haha, and we might have found a sollution. But it would mean backtracking a few things.

Since nobody really tried this adding new specimens thing with custom meshes/attacks/animations were in the dark most of the times, trying to figure things out with our small team....so please bare with us hehe. Were working as fast as we can right now. :)
Click to expand...

hemi the skin vanishing is part of the debug to define blocking behaviour - its not a problem mate
 
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