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Why american vs japanese?

awia

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
55
88
0
Chinese vs Japanese would be far more interesting, more balanced, plus westerners never got a chance to experience brutal the Second Sino-Japanese war was and how the war is still affecting their relationship(negatively) today.

Think we can all say the Japanese were as bad to the Chinese as the Germans was to the Russians(maybe even worse).

anyways, another question, will this be run and gun like Heroes of Stalingrad or more slow-paced like Darkest hour/ Resistance and Liberation?
 

ightenhill

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
382
54
0
At a guess I would say because TWI do tend to have a tiny % of US players compared to EU. Think they realised they need to have a little more to interest them in the product..
 

Grabbed_by_the_Spetsnaz

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 29, 2011
770
170
0
New Zealand
Well AFAIK there were minor US encampments in mainland China, as well as US supplied and back Chinese soldiers fighting in mainland, so there's always hope it could come up in a future update.
 

Nezzer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 3, 2010
2,334
1,021
0
28
Porto Alegre, RS
I would really love so see some maps in China with the Chinese. I hope when RS is done with the Americans, they include the ANZAC, and later the Chinese forces, both Nationalist and Communist forces :IS2:
 

OnbekendeSoldaat

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2010
117
138
0
Chinese vs Japanese would be far more interesting, more balanced, plus westerners never got a chance to experience brutal the Second Sino-Japanese war was and how the war is still affecting their relationship(negatively) today.

Think we can all say the Japanese were as bad to the Chinese as the Germans was to the Russians(maybe even worse).

anyways, another question, will this be run and gun like Heroes of Stalingrad or more slow-paced like Darkest hour/ Resistance and Liberation?
the only thing thats different between germans and japanese: only SS were as brutal as japanese soldiers. all japanese soldiers were raised and trained to praise the emperor and it was good to rape and kill chinese people, so they didn't feel any bad after killing an innocent child bounded at a pole and stabbed several times. I dont know that much about SS but i only know they were brutal also. but i think normal german soldiers were a bit more human then japanese soldiers that day. my point is, there were good, human german soldiers (and ofcourse many bad) and no good japanese soldiers. believe me... there were none.
 
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Nezzer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 3, 2010
2,334
1,021
0
28
Porto Alegre, RS
my point is, there were good, human german soldiers (and ofcourse many bad) and no good japanese soldiers. believe me... there were none.
I don't think so. The Japanese army commited terrible atrocities in China, but generalization never works. The Japanese people was completely brain washed, but even then there were always people who didn't quite believe or follow what their leaders said. Death is also not a good thing to get used to, and the Japanese weren't machines. It usually comes down to the level of fanatism each soldier had for his leaders. Some soldiers don't give a sh*t about their leaders, and some do everything for them.
 

Nestor Makhno

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 25, 2006
5,758
1,118
0
55
Penryn, Cornwall
the only thing thats different between germans and japanese: only SS were as brutal as japanese soldiers. all japanese soldiers were raised and trained to praise the emperor and it was good to rape and kill chinese people, so they didn't feel any bad after killing an innocent child bounded at a pole and stabbed several times. I dont know that much about SS but i only know they were brutal also. but i think normal german soldiers were a bit more human then japanese soldiers that day. my point is, there were good, human german soldiers (and ofcourse many bad) and no good japanese soldiers. believe me... there were none.
If you have personally interviewed every single Japanese soldier who fought in WW2 then I might believe you, otherwise I would be tempted to think you just got a little bit carried away whilst posting that.
 

bakabon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 30, 2011
2
3
0
hmm?

hmm?

Seems to me, historical knowledge posted above, are highly biased as well as limited.
First of all, Axis were not that inferior compare to Allies, both German and Japanese had ability to confront major allies contry include USA and USSR.
Otherwise how possibly WW2 continues over 7years.

Secondary, there are no perfect infantry division in the world. Allies did kill axis hostage, civilian, women and children, raped them, as well as plunder them, pretty much same as what axis soldier did. Do you guys srsly think that Allies were morally superv to Axis? If so, thats total misunderstanding of history. Atomic bomb killed over a million people if we include radiational affection. Is it hugely different from infantry kill the civilian during the war?
In addition, Chinese and American did rape and killed Japanese civilian if you guys did not know.

Thirdly, Japanese army were highly diciplined but not that brainwashed people. Maybe some are, but certainly there are the people who believed liberal democracy and peace. You guys watched too many movies based on totally false historical concept. Do you guys srsly thinks all the time we shouting BANZAI and charging enemy with bayonet? ofc not.

Japanese army lost the war, and there are many horrible and pathetic episode, back grounding on ideological doctrine. However, it does not mean that US were completely superior nor morally better. Also it does not mean all Japanese shared or agreed with ideology.

From present Japanese
 

OnbekendeSoldaat

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2010
117
138
0
If you have personally interviewed every single Japanese soldier who fought in WW2 then I might believe you, otherwise I would be tempted to think you just got a little bit carried away whilst posting that.
i have read a book about horrors in the east (laurence rees) and he had interviewed dozens of japanese veterans. they all said they have tortured and killed a lot of people and they didnt regret it.
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
Am part Chinese myself, and while I'd love to see some reference to the Chinese contribution in Rising Storm, like a few Chinese models for Allied soldiers on the Nhpum Ga map or something, I fully understand why the game focuses on Americans versus the Japanese. Easier to balance, more varied possibilities for maps, weapons, and scenarios...
 

cucamonster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 15, 2010
386
169
0
so nestor, what do you think about implementing the chinese a couple years after rs is released? That'd give us a nice new variety of maps, including mountains, big rural areas, big cities, hell we could even have a battle on the great wall just for teh lulz :d
this
 

awia

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
55
88
0
Am part Chinese myself, and while I'd love to see some reference to the Chinese contribution in Rising Storm, like a few Chinese models for Allied soldiers on the Nhpum Ga map or something, I fully understand why the game focuses on Americans versus the Japanese. Easier to balance, more varied possibilities for maps, weapons, and scenarios...

Are you serious? Japanese ground infantry were inferior to American infantry in terms of weaponry, and there would be just as many possibilities and scenarios for maps if it were Chinese vs Japanese.

American army beat Japanese in an almost landslide victory

as disorganized and ill trained Chinese militia was, they atleast held on for plenty of years.


and believe me, I definitely do not think the Allies were mister good guys during WW2 at all, but they were definitely better than Axis as a whole.


but still mr nestor, is the game going to be an almost exact carbon copy of HoS or will you implement a more slow approach to the game?
 
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Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
Are you serious? Japanese ground infantry were inferior to American infantry in terms of weaponry, and there would be just as many possibilities and scenarios for maps if it were Chinese vs Japanese.

American army beat Japanese in an almost landslide victory

as disorganized and ill trained Chinese militia was, they atleast held on for plenty of years.

and believe me, I definitely do not think the Allies were mister good guys during WW2 at all, but they were definitely better than Axis as a whole.
I'm serious--the gameplay would put the Chinese team at a severe disadvantage. Assuming the Rising Storm team were to pursue a historically accurate loadout scheme for each team, the average Chinese platoon would have no tanks attached, no recon plane, no marksman, no support heavier than light mortars, no anti-tank grenades, no anti-tank weapons and ONE light machine gun. Communication would take place by bugle, not radio.

Sure, there are possibilities for more balanced fights, say, at Shanghai, Nhpum Ga, or late in the Ichigo offensive where more well-equipped Chinese formations were involved, but I stand by what I said in that balance could be difficult.

I also wouldn't attribute resistance to the Japanese as coming from the militia--the Nationalist forces and allied warlords bore the brunt of the fighting against the Japanese for the entirety of the war. And it was hardly an even fight--disastrous logistical, communications, tactical, and strategical failures often pushed the Chinese to the brink of defeat.

It WOULD be great to see some modded maps featuring the Battle of Shanghai, the Chinese at Nhpum Ga, etc... But I would disagree with a decision to make the ENTIRE game about the Second Sino-Japanese War.
 

awia

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
55
88
0
I'm serious--the gameplay would put the Chinese team at a severe disadvantage.Assuming the Rising Storm team were to pursue a historically accurate loadout scheme for each team, the average Chinese platoon would have no tanks attached, no recon plane, no marksman, no support heavier than light mortars, no anti-tank grenades, no anti-tank weapons and ONE light machine gun. Communication would take place by bugle, not radio.

Sure, there are possibilities for more balanced fights, say, at Shanghai, Nhpum Ga, or late in the Ichigo offensive where more well-equipped Chinese formations were involved, but I stand by what I said in that balance could be difficult.

I also wouldn't attribute resistance to the Japanese as coming from the militia--the Nationalist forces and allied warlords bore the brunt of the fighting against the Japanese for the entirety of the war. And it was hardly an even fight--disastrous logistical, communications, tactical, and strategical failures often pushed the Chinese to the brink of defeat.

It WOULD be great to see some modded maps featuring the Battle of Shanghai, the Chinese at Nhpum Ga, etc... But I would disagree with a decision to make the ENTIRE game about the Second Sino-Japanese War.
It will actually be very easy, like you said, on certain maps/situations don't lt there be tanks, there are many stages of the big battles where tanks were used, and in small skirmished give japan the ability to use recon planes and China not to, Japan will be the attacking forces so I Don't see the harm on giving tem a sub par advantage.

And yes while not every platoon didnt have marksmen, most of them still did.

want to know what won't be easy? balancing out a far inferior Japanese force equipped with a decent bolt action and a lousy sub machinegun vs WW2's best semi autos and the Thompson/BAR
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
It will actually be very easy, like you said, on certain maps/situations don't lt there be tanks, there are many stages of the big battles where tanks were used, and in small skirmished give japan the ability to use recon planes and China not to, Japan will be the attacking forces so I Don't see the harm on giving tem a sub par advantage.

And yes while not every platoon didnt have marksmen, most of them still did.

want to know what won't be easy? balancing out a far inferior Japanese force equipped with a decent bolt action and a lousy sub machinegun vs WW2's best semi autos and the Thompson/BAR
Defender's advantage doesn't apply when the defender simply lacks weapons physically capable of denting the attacker... Even in 1944, Japanese armored forces consisting mainly of obsolete Type 95 and Type 95 tanks still managed to erase the territorial gains the Chinese had made over the past three years in a single offensive. I don't think you're understanding the point I'm trying to make here, but the Chinese would have no artillery support, no tank support, no recon, no HMGs, no smoke grenades, one LMG, and no anti-tank weapons! I mean, even giving the average Chinese rifleman two grenades would be stretching realism already. And I'd hate to see what their unlock tree would look like...

And I don't know what sources you have at your disposal, but most Chinese conscripts not belonging to elite divisions never fired their weapons in basic training and were terrible shots. Add that to the COMPLETE and TOTAL lack of scoped rifles, even Lend-lease, in the Chinese arsenal, and the idea of marksmen in most platoons is laughable.

It's a good thing nutrition, morale bordering on mutiny, linguistic miscommunications, supply difficulties, lackadaisical training, poor command structure, lack of even basic medical facilities, and chronic mistrust between officers and men wouldn't make it into the scope of an MP FPS, because those factors were an even greater reason behind the historical imbalance.

Like I said, certain maps would work. The defense of the Sihang warehouse, for example, or the Battle of Pingxingguan--both of which give the Chinese a decisive terrain advantage.

A couple of NRA vs IJA maps bundled together with US vs Japan themed Rising Storm would be excellent. People would play those maps as something new, a novelty item. It'd be a great idea.

An entire 64-person multiplayer game? Six to eight multiplayer maps? That would be difficult.

Just imagine: want to level up the MG class? Best to play as a Japanese. Want to level up the commander class? You'll get those arty kills as a Japanese. Tank? Japanese. If the current ruckus over the Panzer IV's dominance weren't enough, imagine the rage of players on the Chinese team, a Type 97 on the hill above their spawn virtually invincible as it destroys everyone from spawn. And if the RS team were dedicated to historical accuracy, the Japanese would have the option of mustard gas as support.

It'd just be an awesome deal playing as a Japanese! No need to worry about arty, snipers, or tanks...

Balancing them against the Americans is much simpler. The Americans have a small arms advantage, but the Japanese at least have the LMGs, HMGs, terrain, and support necessary to give them a real defender's advantage on the late-war maps where the Americans have better support. And even on those late war maps, the Japanese will still have access to artillery support, called in via radio. Tanks, while outnumbered and obsolete, were at least available to them. And even if not, their 37mm and 47mm anti-tank guns were actually surprisingly effective against Allied armor from ambush positions in the close-quarters environment of Pacific Islands. Add high morale, an iron-rigid command structure, generally well-equipped soldiers, and a few truly effective weapons like the Type 99 LMG, the knee mortar, and the Type 99 rifle, and it's a far more even fight.

And before anybody mentions German equipment purchased before the war or Lend-lease weaponry shipped to China, most of the former was lost during the early battles in 1936 for Northern China and Shanghai, and the goliath's share of the latter was saved to equip Chiang's best divisions--which were held in reserve almost throughout the ENTIRE war in preparation for the inevitable civil war with the CCP.
 

awia

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
55
88
0
Defender's advantage doesn't apply when the defender simply lacks weapons physically capable of denting the attacker... Even in 1944, Japanese armored forces consisting mainly of obsolete Type 95 and Type 95 tanks still managed to erase the territorial gains the Chinese had made over the past three years in a single offensive. I don't think you're understanding the point I'm trying to make here, but the Chinese would have no artillery support, no tank support, no recon, no HMGs, no smoke grenades, one LMG, and no anti-tank weapons! I mean, even giving the average Chinese rifleman two grenades would be stretching realism already. And I'd hate to see what their unlock tree would look like...

And I don't know what sources you have at your disposal, but most Chinese conscripts not belonging to elite divisions never fired their weapons in basic training and were terrible shots. Add that to the COMPLETE and TOTAL lack of scoped rifles, even Lend-lease, in the Chinese arsenal, and the idea of marksmen in most platoons is laughable.

It's a good thing nutrition, morale bordering on mutiny, linguistic miscommunications, supply difficulties, lackadaisical training, poor command structure, lack of even basic medical facilities, and chronic mistrust between officers and men wouldn't make it into the scope of an MP FPS, because those factors were an even greater reason behind the historical imbalance.

Like I said, certain maps would work. The defense of the Sihang warehouse, for example, or the Battle of Pingxingguan--both of which give the Chinese a decisive terrain advantage.

A couple of NRA vs IJA maps bundled together with US vs Japan themed Rising Storm would be excellent. People would play those maps as something new, a novelty item. It'd be a great idea.

An entire 64-person multiplayer game? Six to eight multiplayer maps? That would be difficult.

Just imagine: want to level up the MG class? Best to play as a Japanese. Want to level up the commander class? You'll get those arty kills as a Japanese. Tank? Japanese. If the current ruckus over the Panzer IV's dominance weren't enough, imagine the rage of players on the Chinese team, a Type 97 on the hill above their spawn virtually invincible as it destroys everyone from spawn. And if the RS team were dedicated to historical accuracy, the Japanese would have the option of mustard gas as support.

It'd just be an awesome deal playing as a Japanese! No need to worry about arty, snipers, or tanks...

Balancing them against the Americans is much simpler. The Americans have a small arms advantage, but the Japanese at least have the LMGs, HMGs, terrain, and support necessary to give them a real defender's advantage on the late-war maps where the Americans have better support. And even on those late war maps, the Japanese will still have access to artillery support, called in via radio. Tanks, while outnumbered and obsolete, were at least available to them. And even if not, their 37mm and 47mm anti-tank guns were actually surprisingly effective against Allied armor from ambush positions in the close-quarters environment of Pacific Islands. Add high morale, an iron-rigid command structure, generally well-equipped soldiers, and a few truly effective weapons like the Type 99 LMG, the knee mortar, and the Type 99 rifle, and it's a far more even fight.

And before anybody mentions German equipment purchased before the war or Lend-lease weaponry shipped to China, most of the former was lost during the early battles in 1936 for Northern China and Shanghai, and the goliath's share of the latter was saved to equip Chiang's best divisions--which were held in reserve almost throughout the ENTIRE war in preparation for the inevitable civil war with the CCP.
Dude it is a game we don't have to set out detailed realistic loadouts for your supposed accurate information of Chinese military equipment. Chinese did have all those things, so set up maps in which they do have all those weapons. It's that simple, don't make a map where Japanese will have an overwhelming advantage.

This is a multiplayer MAP game not WW2 Online, the developers have options of ironing out all those supposed weakness you outlined above to where the game will it will be easier to balance our China vs Japanese as opposed to America vs Japanese.

Most of your complaints are coming from tanks, its simple, make it a no tank map, only around half the maps are tank maps in HoS anyways.