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What future can we expect for the co-op scene?

JRMC

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 13, 2011
59
1
I have been pondering about this certain issue for a while now. The reason being is that I have dedicated myself to Killing Floor, once more, to obtain all remaining achievements that I had left behind (I am mainly speaking of the map and difficulty achievements.).

I threw myself right into the Suicidal difficulty, having all achievements from the game's previous difficulty level unlocked. Almost half a year, or an entire year, without playing the game, but it wasn't that bad. I actually did good and progressed with ease. Problem is that after all this time, I actually started thinking of entering a clan. That idea never occurred to me because the Hard difficulty was relatively easy to progress through. - Why would I want to enter a clan if the game felt easy?

On the Suicidal difficulty, things escalate, and fast. At first, I tried my luck at playing solo, as I did with other lower difficulties, but it was a no go. I felt overwhelmed by the amount of mobs and the threat they now posed. So I did what any sane person would: Play online. - Practice comes with time, so I had to progress somehow, and that's when my patience has gone down the drain.

There were maps that I have tried and tried, over the course of 1 or even 2 hours. Players would always find a way to screw it up. They weren't ready for this. They had their perks at their maximum level, and yet, they couldn't play properly. They played as if it was as easy as the lower difficulties, eventually ruining it up, and ended up as specimen meat. - And most of them just outright quit the game afterwards too, as if it wasn't bad enough, leaving us with a higher amount of tougher zeds to lay waste to.

Of course, as I said before, I thought about finding a clan. At first, I played with my close friends who teamed up with a clan and played the game excessively with that same clan to know how to find their way through the massive amount of mobs: Which weapon to use against a specific enemy; How to use it against that specific enemy; Yadda, yadda, yadda. I am hoping to join up with them now, because I am sick and tired of public lobbies. And I know that this is common sense, in many other games as well, but you'd think that after all this time, players could actually improve. Communication is sometimes a problem as well, but it's not even the lack of such that has put me through the same map over and over, grinding those freaking zombies.


And that's why I want to know what can we expect for the Killing Floor 2 co-op scene: Can we really rely on public matches anymore for the foreseeable future? The main problem is that if a teammate makes one slight mistake, the entire game goes to hell. Other players are forced to re-play it all over again, while those who did it wrong can simply back out and not get penalized, besides losing their progress through that specific map. - But they can always join an on-going game, at about the 8th or 9th wave (Or even the 11th wave and obtain the achievement, right after joining.).
 
I think the hardess of the game is the joy of it, tbh.

I can't be satisfied when I get a reasonably good score in Call of Duty. But when I beat a map of KF on HoE (with out using today's cheapo tactics), man I feel so damn satisfied.

The giant risk factor involved in the game where little slip-ups call for major consequences... That's great. When your plan goes to ****, you have to quickly adapt and recover and make up for the mistake. You're given a genuine experience.
 
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The trouble is that its pretty easy to get l6 now, esp after the whitelist was removed, and once a lot of people hit l6, they feel entitled to play on the harder difficulties without recognising that they just don't know enough about the game.
I'm hoping that with a whitelist and more levels, we won't see this on kf2.
 
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Pubs will be pubs, that isn't going to change with KF 2. Just try to find people that are enjoyable to play with and add them. Whether or not you do a "clan" thing is up to you but personally they aren't for me. The best thing is to find a bunch of different people to play with so most of the time you have at least one other person to play with to balance out some of the pubness.

I have to say, limiting player joining based on wave isn't a good idea. Like skell said, if you have friends that want to join you'd be making that impossible. Not to mention, if half the team rage quits on 7, you'll be stuck either finishing a game on 3p (assuming the same 6p squads) or you could leave and find another game just when you got to the more fun/difficult waves.
 
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After wave 7 no one should be allowed to join IMO.
This is an awful idea. What if people leave and you want replacements to join? Also what Skell said. I like having a couple of noobs in the team, usually lots of people who play HOE are so good they might make the game boring.

Plus, I admit it, I do like joining games at wave 6+ if I'm in a hurry to blow off steam with one quick KF match. It has never dragged the team down.

The first few rounds in KF are huge a waste of time, I hope TWI does something about that in KF2.
 
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Except if you want friends to join in on later waves. Or are good enough to carry an extra 1 or 2 people and like the extra challenge.

It's sad to see people wanting to punish actual players because a small quantity like to abuse the wave filter of the map list and join late.

Meh, too lazy to reply atm, broski looks like he's up for debating this though. :IS2:
 
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This is an awful idea. What if people leave and you want replacements to join? Also what Skell said. I like having a couple of noobs in the team, usually lots of people who play HOE are so good they might make the game boring.

Plus, I admit it, I do like joining games at wave 6+ if I'm in a hurry to blow off steam with one quick KF match. It has never dragged the team down.

The first few rounds in KF are huge a waste of time, I hope TWI does something about that in KF2.
It should be up to the server, at least give the option. I hate when I'm on wave 9 of a map with my friends and 2 or 3 noobs join and mess it all up. People join last second to get map achievements and it ain't cool. Maybe if the map achievements were changed to like Left 4 Dead's where the player has to play from beginning to end that would solve the problem.

poosh said:
Players could have an option to invite spectators to the game.
I like this idea a lot actually.
 
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It should be up to the server, at least give the option. I hate when I'm on wave 9 of a map with my friends and 2 or 3 noobs join and mess it all up. People join last second to get map achievements and it ain't cool. Maybe if the map achievements were changed to like Left 4 Dead's where the player has to play from beginning to end that would solve the problem.

Do map achievements really mean that much to you? I hate when this is the reason that motivates people to choose a side like this. Did you have fun while playing? Who cares if someone joins on a late wave and gets the team wiped if you had fun playing? Sometimes someone getting you wiped will ruin your fun, which is, in my opinion a more valid reason to be upset. Think of it like this though...wouldn't that player play exactly the same whether they joined on wave 1 or wave 10? If they play poorly they can cause a wipe regardless. Don't ruin the option of friends being able to play with one another because of your precious chieeeeeves, please.
 
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Don't ruin the option of friends being able to play with one another because of your precious chieeeeeves, please.
But toeeeekneeeeeay, don't you know? For a small amount of people to be 'happy', many must suffer. That's the only way to make this game good. Any good game designer knows that achievements out rank fluid multiplayer mechanics, duh.
 
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Do map achievements really mean that much to you? I hate when this is the reason that motivates people to choose a side like this. Did you have fun while playing? Who cares if someone joins on a late wave and gets the team wiped if you had fun playing? Sometimes someone getting you wiped will ruin your fun, which is, in my opinion a more valid reason to be upset. Think of it like this though...wouldn't that player play exactly the same whether they joined on wave 1 or wave 10? If they play poorly they can cause a wipe regardless. Don't ruin the option of friends being able to play with one another because of your precious chieeeeeves, please.
you completely missed my point. I couldn't give two damns about aachievements. But the goal is to survive not to just kill til someone gets you killed. People who join late and are achievement hunting are usually less skilled. On HOE West London wave 9 you'd be surprised how many level 2 and 3s join my server. Its annoying.
 
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you completely missed my point. I couldn't give two damns about aachievements. But the goal is to survive not to just kill til someone gets you killed. People who join late and are achievement hunting are usually less skilled. On HOE West London wave 9 you'd be surprised how many level 2 and 3s join my server. Its annoying.

I addressed your point by asking you if you play to have fun. If the goal is to survive, do you have fun only when you survive or when you play? If it's the former, then why even play if you have any chance of losing?

However, you act as if I haven't played the game before. If you're playing on your server with at least one or two friends, you can pick up the slack for the rest of the players as long as they're not too aggressive with things like raging scrakes and fleshpounds and getting people killed.

I know you don't even give people a chance though. I joined a friend playing on your server and we had 6 friends playing together, one of who was a level 4 or 5. You (or a fellow admin) berated him then told him to switch to a level 6 perk and we said we didn't care because he was good enough to hold his own. You said no, he then offered to switch but you kicked him anyway. Maybe you should reevaluate how you treat others (people are vindictive) and your own skills before blaming other people for losing.

Or.....you know, you can get the hint that biolabs and west London are noob havens and pick a different map so you have less of a chance of people like that joining.
 
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I addressed your point by asking you if you play to have fun. If the goal is to survive, do you have fun only when you survive or when you play? If it's the former, then why even play if you have any chance of losing?

However, you act as if I haven't played the game before. If you're playing on your server with at least one or two friends, you can pick up the slack for the rest of the players as long as they're not too aggressive with things like raging scrakes and fleshpounds and getting people killed.

I know you don't even give people a chance though. I joined a friend playing on your server and we had 6 friends playing together, one of who was a level 4 or 5. You (or a fellow admin) berated him then told him to switch to a level 6 perk and we said we didn't care because he was good enough to hold his own. You said no, he then offered to switch but you kicked him anyway. Maybe you should reevaluate how you treat others (people are vindictive) and your own skills before blaming other people for losing.

Or.....you know, you can get the hint that biolabs and west London are noob havens and pick a different map so you have less of a chance of people like that joining.
We don't tolerate pubs that don't meet our perk requirements. Our rules are strict: switch after one wave or be kicked. No surviving is not required to have fun, but it is annoying when you play for almost an hour and people screw it up for you last second. And we usually stick to custom maps, we rarely play any stock maps but when we do this crap happens. And when we are on custom maps we rarely have problems. Usually everyone gets along fine so don't judge our server by one visit.
 
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It's your server, you can do what you want. But it wasn't a pub, it was a friend. No one in your clan was playing at the time it was just me and my friends. He wasn't given a wave to switch, he was just kicked. I think I can make a fair judgement of your server based on one play and your attitude towards other players on the forums. Level is the poorest way to judge someone's skill but that is another conversation entirely. It'll just be easier to avoid your clan and your servers in the future.

I'd advise anyone playing to add others that they get along with and play with them and the coop scene will be fine.
 
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Our solutions to pubs we didn't want was to just let them die.

Depending on how truly bad it was, it became a little mini-game of its own.

We'd not shoot at their targets. Continually back up to put them at the front of the pack. No heals. Because I'm usually playing with at least a couple friends on voice chat, we'd organize a shifting of camp spots on the fly, particularly when the pubbie wasn't in a position to notice it.

All pubbies also had to survive at least a wave or two before we'd give them any money. That alone tended to get rid of them. (At least....a year or two ago before it became easier to rank up.)

Sometimes, you have to create your own entertainment. Didn't always work. When a pubbie would wander off by themselves and not die, we'd usually quit the game and up the difficulty of the next map.
 
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You can always join clan fec and we would be happy to play with you! :)

Playing in public lobbies and be fun and challenging but not when achievement hunting. Today playing HOE Moonbase I played with two level four supports, a level four medic rocking the ak, and one level six sharp who was either drunk or high. Meanwhile a level six medic and I tried to kite which went okay until wave seven when fleshpounds wrecked us.

The problem right now ( I think ) is that there just aren't enough people still playing the original KF. And lots of those that are still playing aren't necessarily playing to get achievements or win, it's just to have fun. I think there will be a lot more people playing the sequel and nobody will have any of the achievements, therefore you'll be more likely to join random lobbies and still be able to cooperate well because most people will be playing to win.
 
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It's your server, you can do what you want. But it wasn't a pub, it was a friend. No one in your clan was playing at the time it was just me and my friends. He wasn't given a wave to switch, he was just kicked. I think I can make a fair judgement of your server based on one play and your attitude towards other players on the forums. Level is the poorest way to judge someone's skill but that is another conversation entirely. It'll just be easier to avoid your clan and your servers in the future.

I'd advise anyone playing to add others that they get along with and play with them and the coop scene will be fine.
If no one else from the clan was on then how the hell would you know? People can't get kicked without pissing us off and we always give one wave to switch. And anyone who isn't in our clan we consider a pub until we get to know them.
 
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