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Toxic vote kicking still prevalent as of early 2019

Bwhite1991

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 28, 2018
4
1
0
29
I'm sure there'll have been threads made about this before, though couldn't find any. But this still seems to be a big issue ruining an otherwise great game (this is on PS4 version).

Examples:

- In one match on Prison, every time someone died, one player would vote to kick, though thankfully others in the match weren't impressed, and of course this player themself died. The player's dying weren't level 2 on a hard difficulty or doing anything distasteful, just standard players who knew what they were doing but died in the midst of a wave.

- You'll be vote kicked sometimes if you don't follow or do as one player wants, because of course it's a dictatorship. (I don't mean due to ignoring a protect the area, which in itself shouldn't matter, or running off from the group and dying repeatedly, but just when someone wants to be the boss).

- You'll enter a game and for no reason be kicked (again not for trying to play as a level 0 on suicidal or anything silly, more just people trying to hog a public server they haven't paid for).

- One game I was playing by myself on Nightmare and eventually got joined by others. Was the last player standing on wave 4/4 suicidal and defeated 100+ enemies, all the while healing others in prior rounds and the only one thanking the field medic when they healed me. Before the boss, I gave away several thousand dosh to the players and then, got kicked haha unbelievable. Makes it worse that toxic players treat servers that aren't there's as their own.

- The only time I've been perhaps fairly kicked was when I picked up a fallen players weapon (I throw them back at the player but they probably thought I was stealing it).

I've noticed it's a bit like the milgram experiment, where players won't actually participate in a kick vote because they have reason or know why the one starting the vote started it. They'll do it simply because the option to do so has popped up on their screen and they can do something spiteful with no reprisal.

It's difficult to manage people's free will in a game where there's no team killing. And systems by Tripwire can't really be put in place to stop trolling behaviours outside of that, i.e taking and selling others dropped weapons. But this happens a lot, and as such some system should be put in place to monitor this.
Perhaps a small multi choice box with valid reasons to kick someone the voters could select after someone is kicked. And whether a player abused it could be seen as match footage would show if the kicked player committed any of those trolling behaviours. If abusing the voting system then someone's vote privilege could be removed for a while.

Would be interesting to hear if other players have found they've been kicked for no reason and what their thoughts are on it.
 
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Davski

Member
Jun 12, 2018
47
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It's been mentioned many times.
I proposed a new sort of system in which we could only vote to kick a person once, to avoid the spam, but it fell on deaf ears.
(https://forums.tripwireinteractive....ully-voted-to-kick-this-person-implementation)

It really can be mental; I've taken to taking PS4 screenshots of the in-game players whenever I get voted to see if there is a pattern - I've narrowed a few people down.

​​​​​​Another scenario to add to your list is when starting a session alone, then two Spectators join who are clearly in a Party together and they both Vote to Kick you, ending the game, clearly to annoy the solo player. Perhaps Spectators should not be allowed to initiate the Vote?
​​
​​​Something I like though is when I'm the Demolitionist or Field Medic and get kicked mid-game for no clear reason. Then I start a new session, and 2 minutes later the same players from the game I was kicked from join me. It gives satisfaction in knowing that they probably died because they were stupid enough to randomly kick a vital perk (e.g. the FM).


​​My 'routine' when being voted upon is to whip out the knife (so my weapon doesn't drop and the other players can't sell it if I do get kicked), give the 'Affirmative' Command to let the initiator know that I'm not going to bother fighting the vote, and wonder if the team are smart enough to realise that I give away spare Dosh after each wave and always say Thank You when necessary, etc, and vote 'No'. Not that I'd still want to play in the session knowing that there is a snake within it though.
​​​​

​​​
 

®omano

Grizzled Veteran
May 14, 2009
4,062
187
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France
www.hellsoldiers.tk
If this is a problem since that long you should have been able since then to add good peoples in your friend list and play with them, I guess it is the same as on PC where you can create a match for your friends only.

Also spectators can't vote as far as I know. Unspawned players though can, but they are not spectators.

There is not much to do to limit abuse in a way or another (being voted multiple time during a game, or being invincible from kick with your idea above after a first failed vote kick), there is already a limit of kick votes during a game so.. If a vote passes this is because majority wanted you out. Welcome to the Internet. Safe spaces are an illusion.

Best thing is to group with non toxic players, that shouldn't be too complicated in my opinion if you add them in your friend list, and only play with the 'good people' and leave games where you see the 'toxic people' you narrowed down. If you join public games you expose yourself to the others.. complicated thing.


edit: I'm saying that because you seem to feel ignored because no change since your suggestion, but realize that real problems and way more important stuff get reported and suggested on a daily basis by exaggerating a little, and no since 2 or 3 months like you, more like 2 or 3 years lol. So yeah..
 
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Davski

Member
Jun 12, 2018
47
6
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23
omano;n2328384 said:
Also spectators can't vote as far as I know. Unspawned players though can, but they are not spectators.
Eh? When a player selects to Ready Up whilst a game is in progress, they have to spectate the existing players. They can Vote To Kick at this point. This is what I was referring to.


​
omano;n2328384 said:
​​​​​​there is already a limit of kick votes during a game so.. If a vote passes this is because majority wanted you out.
No, there is a limit on how many successful kicks there are, not actual initiations, so therefore spam can happen.
"If a vote passes... [they] wanted you out". That's clearly not always the case though. If it takes three vote initiations to successfully Kick someone, then the previous two failed initiations show that the team wanted that person to stay, and they probably agreed with the third initiation just to stop the spam.


omano;n2328384 said:
I'm saying that because you seem to feel ignored because no change since your suggestion, but realize that real problems and way more important stuff get reported and suggested on a daily basis by exaggerating a little, and no since 2 or 3 months like you, more like 2 or 3 years lol. So yeah..
I assume this was meant for me again.
I didn't expect changes from my thread; I don't feel "ignored" because of that (not that I felt much of anything). I was referring to the lack of conversation around it.
"Important stuff...daily basis" -Things have actually been relatively quiet recently regarding bug reports in the PS4 section, as far as I've seen.
You mention more important/longer issues, but...
The 12M Vote To Kick has been posted almost a year ago but is still persistent (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.c...or-improvement)
Does that count as a "real problem" with the system to you?
So if anything, the Vote To Kick system seems to have been left alone for too long, and is in need of an upgrade.
 
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®omano

Grizzled Veteran
May 14, 2009
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www.hellsoldiers.tk
I'm not referring to PS4 only. The game is on multiple platforms if you didn't know, they are all the same game, and not developed by different teams (some people may only work on specific platform, not sure but overall this is one unique team for one unique game). You can check the PC bug report forum if you want to see bugs reports and suggestions piling since lot of years. This is why this is no surprise and I'm just telling you. If it does not bring money you'll most likely get ignored here (because priorities......).

So to avoid 'toxic kick voting' don't wait for the devs for a solution, do what it needs to not play with dickheads which are legions on the internet, have a friend list full of the good ones.
 
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Bwhite1991

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 28, 2018
4
1
0
29
@omano

It's a bit of a glaring issue though because developers don't make games playable with thousands of others, only for a remedy to a problem to be restricting it to not playing with anyone (just friends). A multiplayer online co-op game should incite teamwork and good behaviors whilst punishing the bad, R* recently got this right with implemented systems in RDR2 so it's certainly possible. It's tough to know who is and isn't a dickhead, or what actions/gameplay may trigger others. And some people are indeed just dickheads.

1) There should be an idle timeout or if there is it needs it's time to be reduced.

2) Players weapons when they die, if a, player runs over the weapon (or someone wants to pick it up) it should bring up a small dialog box for the dead player with a simple yes/no the grant the player/s permission to take it. Or better yet just disable friendly weapon pickups.

3) Make it so players can't play higher difficulties until they reach the recommended level range.

Many problems solved. Then it's just minute things that might aggro players, like someone not playing properly or griefing. But a checkbox to give reason for kicking can be provided to monitor abuse. These simple things should be thought of, otherwise they may as well disable online play and just allow the old local play with link cables to play with friends.
 

Sarcy

Member
Dec 9, 2018
71
6
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Bwhite1991;n2332087 said:
@omano
3) Make it so players can't play higher difficulties until they reach the recommended level range.
Whilst I support some changes to improve the quality of Public Lobbies I disagree with this because a competent player can handle higher difficulties before the "recommended" level.
Such an implementation would ruin HoE because if it was Level 25-ONLY it would make a lot of Daily Objectives useless as you wouldn't be able to attempt them and would cut down the already low number of lobbies that seem to exist at any given time.

As for initiating a vote, I believe these to be justified reasons:

- Blocking a player/s or triggering Large Zeds and running off *stern look at some Firebugs on all Scrake Endless waves*
- Failing to return a player's weapon/s and instead selling them for their own gain
- Not pulling your weight/doing your duty - the number of appalling/selfish Medics on PS4 is outrageous - seems many want all the survivability but don't care about anyone else, other times a player will seemingly do anything to avoid conflict as they attempt to earn a freebie off the efforts of the others.

Think could condense these into Griefing, Selfishness and Unsupportive though welcome any alternatives/additions.
 

Stlucifer1

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2019
6
1
0
I would rather have it known who starts the vote. I would leave a game if I ever see them in one, because I'd rather not play with them anyhow
 

J1ha7

Member
Apr 22, 2015
58
4
8
well i got kicked of using demo and agro 2 fp at once ... and once i got kicked because i just didnt play their game ... once we kicked a guy for a slot thats it
but in EU its like people are cool and we chit chat and have fun :) atleast my experience last few months tho
 

Ic0n0clast

Member
Aug 7, 2018
87
5
8
32
TEXAAAASSSSS
I got kicked for being too good. I had highest kills as SS using freeze nades. The excuse was not doing objectives, even though I was standing the marked areas. I ran out a few times for incoming FP or Scrakes that I'd freeze and HS. And then run back to the area and no bonus lost. Logically, it made sense for me to do that. I was sitting outside of the area with a FB stealing all kills. Kills are only relevant for leveling and you level faster doing solo Endless to wave 5 leave and repeat.
 

war.to.fame

Active member
Aug 31, 2017
467
101
43
its when you are rank 5, (current i think) and level 25 they seem to kick like cats and dogs. Once i reach level 25 i just stay with team and relax while they kill them all and i help with the FP and scrakes. Medics, Support and Demo should always stay back with the group. I notice if you leave the group and rack up kills they will start the kicking, TW kicking/voting system is garbage.
 

GrooveSan

Member
Aug 30, 2015
34
4
8
20190907172755_1.jpg I don't even know what to say, so I'll just leave it here. Check the chat box
P.S. It was HoE game. And yes, I got kicked
 
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war.to.fame

Active member
Aug 31, 2017
467
101
43
Ok this topic needs to be addressed, this has been going on far too long and you need to rework your voting/kicking system so when a vote has been called for kicking they can select a reason and have it submitted back to the data base with a 30 second video to catch people abusing the voting system. The console reporting system is a waste of time and will not do anything about COD.


I got kicked 3 times for no reason, I was the only person in there on wave 3, I can narrow it down by 2 people with a video I captured. It's absolutely unnecessary to kick someone while there playing.
 

ShredMinor

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2018
15
4
3
27
The definition of toxic is when you're last one standing and they would rather kick you and throw the game instead of wait. I've had this multiple times, but what do I expect from a bunch of scrubs dying so early.

I guarantee as simple as removing anonymity and stating who started the kick could be a big change. As long as it's this easy to get away with it will never change.

Also if there's only two people in a game, why on earth is it allowed for someone to cast a vote and automatically win? It's a guaranteed kick.
 
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®omano

Grizzled Veteran
May 14, 2009
4,062
187
63
France
www.hellsoldiers.tk
Maybe they just have to change the vote kick percentage required for the vote to pass. Also having non anonymous vote would help to see who started the vote and probably would stop trolls if they are clearly named on screen for all to see (leading in their own kick after failed attempt to kick randomly). I don't see much solution to this 'issue' honestly. What is the solution? Removing the vote kick completely?

Most simple thing to do is to not join random games, and building a 'community'/friend list with trusted people to play with would be a good start for those affected by this so called 'toxic vote kick'. Easy fix.