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the Reichstag and who got on there first?

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Jhaxavier

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Oct 9, 2006
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#1
I recently saw a compilation of clips from a documentary "Apocalypse Berlin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt5n3tu7yNk

It's believable enough that there were people who got up there first and were uncredited, but I heard from my friend who visits Poland often that he was trolling the unlocked army archives like he usually did and found an interesting war record detailing how the Poles were one of the first (not meaning the 'first' first) ones on the roof of the Reichstag.

According to him, the Poles set up their flag but the Russians (I'm thinking here the ones who set up the publicized flag) arrived and killed them all but for some reason let the photographer live and let him keep his film, even though they destroyed his camera.

It all sounds kind of weird, but I want your opinion/information on the whole thing on who got up there first...I'm not a history buff :p
 
#2
Jhaxavier said:
According to him, the Poles set up their flag but the Russians (I'm thinking here the ones who set up the publicized flag) arrived and killed them all but for some reason let the photographer live and let him keep his film, even though they destroyed his camera.
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Why in the world they would have killed the Poles? This is a bit hard to believe. :p

And at least the other guy in the photo, Meliton Kantaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meliton_Kantaria), sure wasn
 
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#4
Yeah.. And then they ate all children...

В этот день войсками 3-й ударной армии генерала В. И. Кузнецова была взята основная часть здания рейхстага. Непосредственный штурм рейхстага осуществлял 79-й стрелковый корпус генерала С. Н. Переверткина.
Click to expand...
That day the bigger part of the Reichstag was siezed by troops of general Kuznecov's 3rd assault army. The assaut of Reichstag itself was done by general Perevertkin's 79th rifle corps.

Коммунист Илья Сьянов первым бросается к входу, за ним — вся рота. Вместе с командиром врываются в дверь бойцы Николай Бык, Иван Богданов, Валентин Островский, Иван Прыгунов...
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Communist Ilya Sjanov was first at the entrance with all his 1st company. They nade spammed all the windows near them and then run through the door - he and his soldiers Nikolaj Byk, Ivan Bogdanov, Valentin Ostrovskij, Ivan Prygunov. They went in at ~18 PM. They were the first, but not the only.

14.jpg


Sjanov Ilya
А к входу рвется 2-я рота. Впереди — отделение Бориса Лотошкина, бойцы Прокофий Коломиец, Яков Алексеев. Роту ведет младший лейтенант Николай Антонов.
Лейтенант Всеволод Ищук поднимает 3-ю роту. Впереди бойцы Алексей Гусар, Николай Скачко из взвода Алексея Бутылева. В считанные минуты в рейхстаге — весь 1-й батальон. Вместе с 3-й ротой в рейхстаг вошли Гусев, Берест, а вскоре также капитаны Прелов и Матвеев.
Click to expand...
2nd company is running to the entrance. The first amongst them were Boris Lotoshkin's soldiers, Prokofij Kolomiec, Jakov Alekseev. Junior leutenant Nikolaj Antonov was leading the 2nd company.
Behind them - 3rd company with leutenant Vsevolod Ishuk with Aleksej Gusar, Nikolaj Skachko from Aleksej Butylev's platoon.
In just few minutes all 1st batallion was in Reichstag. Together with 3rd company Gusev, Berest, Prelov and Matveev (COs) went in.
After that, Egorov, Kantaria with a group of scouts run in with the famous assault flag.
Дружно прогремело общее
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#5
I did a little research (ok, ok, I just asked this question on history-buff forum :) ): at the time of Reichstag assault 1st Polish Army was at the north-west side of Tirgarten park (sp?). So, to make it to the Reichstag they needed to cross the whole park from west side to east side (Germans had their positions there), assault and cap Krol-Opera from the west and only then they could assault Reichstag itself.
So, as you can see, your friend has found a real BS document.
 
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#6
Bolt said:
I did a little research (ok, ok, I just asked this question on history-buff forum :) ): at the time of Reichstag assault 1st Polish Army was at the north-west side of Tirgarten park (sp?). So, to make it to the Reichstag they needed to cross the whole park from west side to east side (Germans had their positions there), assault and cap Krol-Opera from the west and only then they could assault Reichstag itself.
So, as you can see, your friend has found a real BS document.
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Lol, I guess. Thanks for clearing that up! :)

Can I also have the links to the site you quoted from? (I can't read any of it but that's what I got babelfish for...I 'infer' the meaning from its broken translation :D)
 
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#10
Jhaxavier said:
According to him, the Poles set up their flag but the Russians (I'm thinking here the ones who set up the publicized flag) arrived and killed them all but for some reason let the photographer live and let him keep his film, even though they destroyed his camera.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a Soviet tactic, remember all the Polish officers found dead in the Katyn forest...Killed by the NKVD.
 
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#11
My friend pointed out that...sounds like the NKVD would definitely have to do with it if it did happen.

I asked him again to take a look at that document if he could, but I don't think it's likely such a thing happened on the reichstag if the Poles were at the place Bolt found out they were.

EDIT: I found the document...but it's in russian. Can someone translate it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1940-03-05_politbiuro.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1940-03-05_beria1.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1940-03-05_beria2.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1940-03-05_beria3.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1940-03-05_beria4.png
 
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#16
American_Psycho said:
That sounds like a Soviet tactic, remember all the Polish officers found dead in the Katyn forest...Killed by the NKVD.
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That sounds like a fairly ill-informed, kneejerk type of comment. The fact that you have even heard of Katyn may mark you a level or two above a lot of pondlife who have been banned from these forums for 'Russians = Commies =t3h Satan'-type comments but not a huge amount above.

I am not denying that many Polish Officers were slaughtered at Katyn - only real ardent Stalinists could deny that and they generally got laughed out of existence about 10 years ago. The role of Blokhin in that action is one of the most chilling events from modern history.

Nor am I particularly saying that if a Pole had somehow got to the top of the Reichstag first it would never have been hushed up (possibly even to the extent of that person being liquidated).

What, however, is pretty clear about this whole matter is that it is just WAY too improbable that this particular Polish unit somehow strayed several blocks from where they were, through thick fighting and ended up wandering into the Reichstag, through all the Soviet units which had been especially ordered to take the building... then the whole unit got massacred just around the corner by T3h 3vi1 5oviet5™ - there are just too many unlikely things to have happened and too much mess to clear up afterwards for this to be a possibility.

Saying, "Yeah this is prolly true cos I read about Katyn on www.whycommiesarestillanevilthreaty'all.com/thoughtsofchairmanrush/index.html where I get all my historical opinions from." just marks you out as a not especially critical thinker.
 
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#19
American_Psycho said:
The NKVD and the Katyn massacre are facts of history. The way you wish to ignore these historical facts speaks volumes about your ideology...

I was merely pointing out the fact that if the Poles did get there first ( unlikely) that it would not be out of the ordinary for an NKVD death squad to "make sure" that russians got the glory for Stalin.

You can't change history, although you and your ilk would certainly like too...;)
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Ofcourse Katyn massacre is a fact. But I never said anything about the whole massacre thing. Where on earth did you get that kind of idea?

I was just pointing out, that if you enter into "serious" discussion in the way you did, that kind of takes away your credibility as debater. Nothing more.

And you know, many of those soldiers who were first in Reichstag, were certainly not russians. They were all soviets, from different soviet "nationalities" (including ofcourse russians), and there is huge difference in that matter. Huge.

And I am certainly not those who want to "change" or denie facts of history. You know, I am graduating (masters degree) as historian from university, so I kind of know thing or two about the "truth" in history (which by the way is not that simple and trivial thing)

And you should not judge people by their nicks. I don
 
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