So how good is Killing Floor 2 right now?

[Tussell]

i read you,gladius isnt the vocal minority though. i have alot of KF1 friends who would gladly play the game if it had more depth to it. he is,however,the vocal minority to care enough about the game to state his opinions here on the forum.

I don't mean specifically Gladius, when I say vocal minority. I truly didn't mean to aggro him and use him as an example, as much as it came off that way. There are several people in this thread alone, who share the same views as he does, and I meant what I've said, but it's directed to the conglomerate of people with these opinions. I apologize, Gladius, if it came off as an attack on you.

I'm sure there's tons of people both off these forums, as well as people who've never submitted a Steam review, that dislike the game. However, from what I've seen so far out of the handful of people on the forums who don't like it, and the 87% 'Very Positive' rate out of nearly 30,000 submitted Steam reviews, I think that people not liking this game, fall into the category of 'minority'. I know, we have friends who are on both ends of the spectrum, but I think, overall, the product released is, for lack of a better term, very liked.

Trends change constantly in the world of gaming... I can't help but think they've done nothing wrong here. If anything, they've opened up to a lot more people, they've put their name out there on a bigger pedestal, and they're competing in a highly competitive field. When it comes to business, you have to make changes, appeal to the masses, etc. Pumping out products at the quality that they do, isn't cheap, so I can't help but think that appealing to a niche crowd from their original game, isn't going to be the best business tactic. Personally, I think they're doing a great job... Red Orchestra and Killing Floor are two fairly heavy names in the PC world, and I think they've been doing just fine. It looks like the numbers are showing it too, which leads me to believe the old ways of Killing Floor are going to be left in the past, regardless of others views on it.

 

[poultrygeist]

the thing though is that the "niche crowd" ended up playing and mastering the game to a degree where the only challenge left was using either mutators or camp a crazy spot,and it was still fun because the map design allowed for different spots (besides learning new crazy ways of taking down big game). on the other hand players could still enjoy the game (KF1) on the lower difficulty without knowing all of the finer mechanics. in KF2 there isnt much to master other than knowing your loadout and practise your aim. its all about shooting zeds that come running in fast. mind you, you still need trigger discipline and good aim but beyond that there isnt much left.

and then there is the map design, it seems all over the place.not allowing you to hold a spot nor kite.

well that is my opinion anyways

 

[defekt_]

and then there is the map design...not allowing you to hold a spot nor kite.

I feel you're doing the map builders something of an injustice. Most of the problem is caused by the (idiotic) Zed teleportation mechanism.

 

[poultrygeist]

they do look great dont get me wrong. but as has been pointed out earlier KF1 gave you much more choices to hold. there was a few spots in some of the maps in KF2 that are controllable but the devs decided to put backspawns or holes in the ceilling/roof. btw i havent noticed bad teleporting at all since it got nerfed a while back. but that is perhaps because iam a camp style player and maybe notice it not all that much

 

[Escadin]

Actually, I find there to be 5-6 different spots on any map that are holdable even with pubs on your team. Teleportation also got massively toned down over the last patches. Haven't witnessed a single instance of it in a long time.

 

[Gladius]

I feel you're doing the map builders something of an injustice. Most of the problem is caused by the (idiotic) Zed teleportation mechanism.

That's actually a popular misconception that people think it would be the teleportation system and not simply the placement of spawn volumes. There isn't much teleporting going on anymore. You can test that yourself by grouping all zeds up in one place and then start running in circles over the map. You won't run into much zeds as long as you don't kill any. But when you kill they start spawning in front of you and this is what people tend to confuse with teleportation.

 

[oldmidget]

Actually, I find there to be 5-6 different spots on any map that are holdable even with pubs on your team. Teleportation also got massively toned down over the last patches. Haven't witnessed a single instance of it in a long time.

yea, you can usually hold at least half a wave.

 

[Gladius]

I'm trying to explain it to you with an analogy. Let's say we are customers in a restaurant. There is that reopening and the restaurant is now called KF2. Now I find out that they don't serve meat anymore. But the new restaurant has even a bigger and better grill. They even invested into better steak knifes but they aren't used. Now I'm complaining to the chef that this has to change already. I don't want that vegan diet all the time. It's okay once in a while but it gets boring too fast. Now other customers hear that and feel offended. They tell me that meat is unhealthy. They say it's all good with the restaurant. Vegan all the way...

...people just throwing around opinions as fact. That's you who thinks it's not as good as it 'should' be, that's you that thinks it's not as good as it 'could' be. Does this need to change? Or does it need to change for the handful of people that are upset and trolling around a year later on the forums, and not for the 2,000+ that have played KF2 this month? I think you need to just accept that it's a different game and either stop playing it or stop complaining about it.

I assume people that don't like certain things, shouldn't partake in said things. I assume if you don't like Killing Floor 2's mechanics, you probably shouldn't play Killing Floor 2. Furthermore, how ridiculous does it sound to ***** and moan, asking people to change a game for your enjoyment? I'm just picturing a child smashing his foot on the ground with his hands clenched, face red, and screaming because mom didn't get him that sick helicopter toy at the department store. Clearly, as you stated, they're creating the game they had in mind. What more do you want? I'm literally sitting here and I can hear my brain fizzing and crackling. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, hahaha.

I don't know man, that sounds like one of those opinions again... I can keep telling you that many people are enjoying what they're seeing/playing.

An opinion is for example „I like something better“. A fact is that KF2 falls short in terms of combo playstyle. Although the core game engine would be even better suited for that playstyle then its predecessor. And that's why I believe it's a reasonable thing to demand on a forum that the game designers start to use the tools they created.

Do you not understand that maybe this game just isn't for you, things change, game series devolve/evolve, and that maybe, just maybe, you won't like everything you come in contact with?

You need to understand that I do play the game and my criticism is about providing feedback that the game gets better. This is what the forums are about in my opinion. I'm not here to tell people they shouldn't buy the game.

I don't know about other threads, but I feel as though in this thread, there was less elaborate improvement proposal than there was "well this just isn't the same, and I felt as though it was way more creative and fun in KF1!"

I completely understand what you're talking about

You said you played less KF1 than the OP so I suppose you have no clue about the combo playstyle. Maybe you have seen some videos but you have clearly no idea what I'm talking about. And I never said anything like KF2 should be the same as KF1. I don't think I have to repeat what I wrote. If you are really interested you can simply look into my post history. But I'm afraid that this is just incomprehensible for you and all you get from that is that someone has a different „opinion“.

I feel as though there's this weird disconnect between us at the moment. You don't seem to understand that things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst. I don't seem to understand why you're so persistent.

I do play KF2. I have even above average hours I suppose. What I also have is friends that don't want to play KF2 for reasons I pointed out already. I want that the game gets better. Am I being irrational here?

I truly mean no disrespect.

How do you think you are being perceived?

 

[silverlighted]

I skimmed the last few pages...looks like things got heated.

I know I'm generalizing (can't really help that unless I respond to everyone which I'm definitely not) but I don't really understand the issue that arose here. We're in a thread about the quality of KF2. Not how much John and Jill like KF2. We're talking about how good KF2 is. Yes, we are all going to be drawing from our own opinions. This isn't some sort of math problem where we can provide a logical proof. But, at the same time, I think it's perfectly reasonable to make arguments for concise and objective claims.

For the record, I love KF2, and I don't play KF1 anymore. But I do agree that it's less technical. I do agree that it's less complex. And I do agree that the implementation of the afflictions system as is, makes the game a bit on the shallow side. I don't hold this to an extreme like Gladius, but I do feel that way. It just doesn't bother me, I'm not a hardcore KF player. Never have been. I like the guns and the gore and the minor level of strategy that I partake in. But the flaws of KF2...I believe that these are arguably true and objective claims. They just don't bother me.

And the issue of elitism vs casuals...it's frustrating. I've been on the KF forums for a while, and it's commonly an issue. It shouldn't be. Let ppl play how they want to play and value what they want to value. Presuming enmity at the beginning of each discussion, or reducing people's claims for the type of player they are isn't helpful. But...that doesn't mean that ppl can't be informed, or that objective claims can't be made. lol it's okay to be ignorant about some things. And it's okay to criticize the game. This is about discussion, and understanding.

I assume people that don't like certain things, shouldn't partake in said things. I assume if you don't like Killing Floor 2's mechanics, you probably shouldn't play Killing Floor 2. Furthermore, how ridiculous does it sound to ***** and moan, asking people to change a game for your enjoyment? I'm just picturing a child smashing his foot on the ground with his hands clenched, face red, and screaming because mom didn't get him that sick helicopter toy at the department store. Clearly, as you stated, they're creating the game they had in mind. What more do you want? I'm literally sitting here and I can hear my brain fizzing and crackling. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, hahaha.

Dude...didn't I just get out of a thread where you were adamantly defending the demand for more achievements, for your own achievement? XDD

Note...this is a joke. I'm joshing you. Your response to me in that other thread was very reasonable and logical, and I appreciated that. Please do not respond to defend yourself on this. Again, this is a joke.

 

[Tussell]

I'm trying to explain it to you with an analogy. Let's say we are customers in a restaurant. There is that reopening and the restaurant is now called KF2. Now I find out that they don't serve meat anymore. But the new restaurant has even a bigger and better grill. They even invested into better steak knifes but they aren't used. Now I'm complaining to the chef that this has to change already. I don't want that vegan diet all the time. It's okay once in a while but it gets boring too fast. Now other customers hear that and feel offended. They tell me that meat is unhealthy. They say it's all good with the restaurant. Vegan all the way...

I completely understand, but I think that most owners would think it silly to change something like that if it has proven to be a fairly good business model.

You said you played less KF1 than the OP...

Did I? I truly didn't mean it if I said that, haha. I have no idea how much he has played, but I used to play it as far back as it being a mod. I was never hardcore into the KF1 scene, but I've got some definite history with it.

How do you think you are being perceived?

I truly hope not disrespectfully. As I tried to point out, you just ended up being the punching bag for my posts, due to the fact that we were the only ones persistently responding to each other. Nothing was meant to directly be attacking you. I truly mean no disrespect.

Dude...didn't I just get out of a thread where you were adamantly defending the demand for more achievements, for your own achievement? XDD

****, you got me, haha.

Nah, I just feel as though small content update suggestions, as small as achievements are different than a core gameplay change suggestion. Was it not also in a thread about suggesting things to do past 25/what to add to prolong replay, haha.


All in all, I'm going to finally throw the towel in on this argument. The main reason I personally found myself getting so heated was the usual hardcore vs. casual conversation, where people take a standpoint that they cannot think outside of. I understand everyone has a different point of view, but I felt as though most of the posts were mostly people talking about what they enjoyed so much more about their glory days of KF1, which doesn't come close to helping out the casual OP. Though I may be completely wrong, on the surface it looked more like a 'you-know-what' measuring contest than a thread to help a possible KF2 purchase. I may have taken things wrong, but when I see stuff like this, it just irks me personally. It was odd.

I understand that things change, and it can be extremely frustrating. I was extremely upset with the last Rainbow Six and haven't touched it in a very long time. I guess I just go about things differently. I'm sorry for anyone who feels this way about Killing Floor 2, as I hated the changes that took place with Rainbow Six, and it sucks to not have what you were hoping for.

I truly apologize to anyone who I irritated, offended, or otherwise upset... my recent re-obsession with KF2, my plethora of downtime at work, and my cockiness got the best of me. I don't want to join this forum and just **** all over everything, haha, that was not my intention. I want to specifically apologize to Gladius for most of everything on my end getting unintentionally directed at him, as that was the furthest thing from my intention.

To the OP, I apologize for further derailing your thread, haha. As you can see there is no right answer here, as to how good KF2 is at the moment. Some will tell you it's worth a purchase immediately, some will tell you to wait for a sale or a free weekend, and some will tell you to avoid it entirely. When you get such vast answers, the best thing to do is take the middle choice, wait for a free weekend or a nice sale and give it a shot then. That being said, the current Steam reviews show 87% 'Very Positive' rate out of nearly 30,000 and it's the sequel to a pretty heavy title. Chances are you'll dig it, I'd think, by way you described your previous Killing Floor career.

If we were all at bar right now, I'd buy everyone a round... and probably a shot of Rumpleminze. If they had it, I'd also torture you all with Malort.

 

[Gladius]

but I think that most owners would think it silly to change something like that if it has proven to be a fairly good business model.

Speaking of business models. It absolutely makes sense from a pure standpoint of economics, to streamline a product in terms of accessability, to reach a wider audience and therefore sell more product. But if you go only wide and not deep the game simply falls short in terms of long time motivation. So what really makes me facepalm a lot on these forums here is when I basically demand more content for the game and then I get responses from confused people that tell me that they don't want more content. A lot of players enjoy that primitive run-and-gun playstyle and that's totally okay. I'm not advertizing to take that away from them. What I'm asking for is simply new content. More gameplay options for players that are not so simple to satisfy that it's enough for them to shoot the ground with a flamethrower while running around. And when you follow the forums you will see that a lot of people ask for more weapons and more zeds. And what they really mean by that are game mechanics. People are not asking for simple reskins of something that is already in the game.

 

[The_Pharoah]

I'm certainly enjoying KF2 (not having played KF1). I bought into the beta last year and have been playing on and off. Its certainly a lot of fun. I did however play on a 32 player server last night on HOE and there was 400+ Z's in 10 waves, and yet our ammo hitting power was cut in half. I'm all for a challenge but cutting your hitting power in half is just stupid, esp with no ammo around. Maybe it was a server setting, I dunno.

otherwise its definitely worth it imho.

 

[|WC|Capt.525]

I'm in the same boat as Vealck, Gladius, and any of the other old guards, and I think they summed up my issues with the game quite well. I don't think the game is ever going to be what I wanted, and I don't think it's ever going to have that magic that KF1 had that kept us around for literally thousands of hours. And it certainly isn't buggy enough to give us the opportunity to exploit the hitboxes and the wacky weaknesses of the zeds enough to keep hardcore people around. In saying that though, I have come to terms that KF2 is not what I myself was after.

To answer the OP, KF2 is a fun game. A bit shallow, but fun with a few mates. I recently got back into it playing with some new friends of mine who never played KF1, and with them I have been having a bit of fun. It's not particularly challenging, if you die it's because you didn't spam hard enough and not that you messed up your combo, but it is a bit of mindless fun that's good for cooling off after playing something competitive and salt inducing (Dota). Give it a shot, see what you like, and if you only end up playing it for 50 hours, that's more than worth the cost.

 

[pie1055]

I'm in the same boat as Vealck, Gladius, and any of the other old guards, and I think they summed up my issues with the game quite well. I don't think the game is ever going to be what I wanted, and I don't think it's ever going to have that magic that KF1 had that kept us around for literally thousands of hours. And it certainly isn't buggy enough to give us the opportunity to exploit the hitboxes and the wacky weaknesses of the zeds enough to keep hardcore people around. In saying that though, I have come to terms that KF2 is not what I myself was after.

To answer the OP, KF2 is a fun game. A bit shallow, but fun with a few mates. I recently got back into it playing with some new friends of mine who never played KF1, and with them I have been having a bit of fun. It's not particularly challenging, if you die it's because you didn't spam hard enough and not that you messed up your combo, but it is a bit of mindless fun that's good for cooling off after playing something competitive and salt inducing (Dota). Give it a shot, see what you like, and if you only end up playing it for 50 hours, that's more than worth the cost.

Count me in as well. I can't quantify it but I just enjoy KF1 more than KF2, even to this day. KF2 is just lacking a certain something for me. As quite a few of us gathered here share this viewpoint I'd advise the OP to ignore us as the difference it makes to us is nitpicking by and large. The differences only really matter after you've put in hundreds of hours. If you're a fan of KF1 then KF2 is worth trying. You'll not waste your money, that's for certain.

 

[Kittenmittens]

Thanks everyone that answered the OP. This thread has plenty of replies with a various opinions expressed that contribute. It seems to have become a heated exchange between fans of the first game vs fans of the second, and this kind of exchange doesn't bring the community closer. It does more harm. Both games can be appreciated for the games they are and it's okay to have a preference. I admire the passion that fans of the series have, but it's time to close this thread.