• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
  • Weve updated the Tripwire Privacy Notice under our Policies to be clearer about our use of customer information to come in line with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) rules that come into force today (25th May 2018). The following are highlights of our changes:


    We've incorporated the relevant concepts from the GDPR including joining the EU and Swiss Privacy Shield framework. We've added explanations for why and how Tripwire processes customer data and the types of data that we process, as well as information about your data protection rights.



    For more information about our privacy practices, please review the new Privacy Policy found here: https://tripwireinteractive.com/#/privacy-notice

Pondering on KF3

Drassel

Member
Jun 7, 2013
435
3
18
Canada
I'm surprised there haven't been any threads on this lately.

So yeah, I'm fully aware that the game isn't even close to the end of its anticipated lifespan (last game took 5 years until they dropped support and it's still alive and kicking), but it's been 3 years, at least for those who didn't participate to the EA. It's already quite long compared to most games in the industry.

Personally, KF1 had the best personality, but KF2 had near-perfect gunplay. I played both games over 450hrs each so I think I kinda enjoyed them. I rooted for both even though I was aware of their respective fatal flaws. KF1 was limited in its budget and scope, while KF2 was trying too hard not to look like its older sibling while trying too little to capitalize on its potential. Oh, and let's not forget about their mutual flaw: their tendency to be repetitive.

So this has made me ponder for awhile, is KF3 even worth making? If that was already in the dev's intention to do so, what should the game bring to the table over its older siblings?

Well I'm just a dude sipping Canadian beer on a cold evening, not some genius with decades of experience in videogame-making who thinks he knows more than anyone for the future of the franchise, but I think I have a few ideas that I'd like to discuss.


Let's start with the big one: repetitiveness:

Klling Floor has always been a solid shooter with reliable gameplay mechanics. Okay, welding has always been near-useless, as if they wanted to add at some point some kind of tactical touch ala Rainbow Six or Swat, but they eventually scrapped the idea and only left out the ability to weld wooden DOARS with a blowtorch.
I think that the strenght of the franchise is its easy-to-read, straightforward approach. You shoot everything, preferably in the head, until there is no one left, you buy better dakka at the trader, then rinse and repeat. I think it's also where lies the main flaw: at some point there's little room for improvement. You reach a point where you can reliably finish games on Suicidal/HOE and then realize that it's everything that the game can throw at you.
KF2 has done a great job however at diminishing the feeling of doing the same thing over with the addition of different guns that do different effects, but they ultimately all have the same learning curve and basic style of operation. All melee weapons feel the same, some just smash harder or do something cool with their heavy attack.

What I'd like to see in the next installment is weapons with different learning curves: some are streamlined, easy to use and master, while others take more time to learn, but once you get the hang of them, they show to be powerful means of destruction, at the cost of as soon as you mishandle them, it might cost you your life. Monster Hunter is a great example of what I mean.
One thing I have noticed with most guns in KF2, is that most of them were balanced to be used in most situations and environments. You can for example start spamming your RPG-7 in a cramped corridor with little consequences, besides the cost of your ammo at the end of the wave. i think such weapons shouldn't be as easy to use, at least all the time. Some weapons should be balanced for a more in-your-face style, while some others will actually get you killed if there isn't at least a few meters of breathing room. Some weapons will not work at all in constricted maps while others will shine at defending chokepoints. Right now most weapons can be used on any maps in all impunity and this may severely affect loadout variety.

Enough with weapons. Let's talk gameplay: I'd like to see more room to tactical thinking. Maybe we could see some use to welding after 3 games? in the first one, shutting down doors was useful to create choke points where you could concentrate your fire, but keeping said doors shut was quite difficult even as a maxed-out support unless another player gave a hand from time to time. Flash-forward to KF2, welding doors is actually near-useless and will actually get you killed more often than they'll offer a tactical advantage. I've always recommended not to weld door in the second game since they take so little effort from the Zeds to break down, and they are near-impossible to hold alone as a maxed-out Support.
I really liked the addition of perk-specific grenades and I'd like to see them again in the next game. Freezing or tazing scrakes for easy, efficient takedowns was a breathe of fresh air and ironically made the support's and commando's grenades lackluster in comparison. Maybe we could see some dynamic destruction? Throwing a grenade at a wall or obstacle will blow a chunk off of it to your advantage, but Zeds will also learn to do the same eventually. Husks could also blow through walls on higher difficulties, adding to the element of variety and chaos.
I think there should be more than one way to approach a map. Some that are more straightforward, some that take a little more planning but offer in return a diminished cost in effort and resources.


Let's talk about the lore and personality of the game.

Some people will say that lore isn't important, and they are right to some point. Lore is not important for the casual player to follow, but it makes a great baseline to draw new ideas from. It helps create a culture around which people gather, connect and relate, and by consequent shapes an identity to the work. You can't deny that an artwork with a rich backstory is easier to renew than one which is shallow and by consequent relies heavily on what it can show in the now rather than what it can provide over time.
I think Killing Floor 3 should embrace what made the first game so unforgettable: the cheesiness, the cheap British humor, its categorical refusal to take itself too seriously, and the gritty horror reminiscent of a bad horror movie from the 80's, instead of running from it. A son looking like his father doesn't make them both the same person...it makes them related.

Doom 2016 and the upcoming Eternal did it: they stayed close to their roots while offering something new in return too. And hell, you'd be surprised at the abysmal depth of the Doom lore, and only a microscopic part of it is actually shown in the game.
I'd like to see some more objective modes that reveal more on the world of KF. The Steampunk guy was fun, but he was essentially just blowing noisy air. Nothing that he says is actually relevant and he is only present for the comic relief.
I think the next installment should focus more on developing its own identity and avoid falling into the trap of becoming yet another generic shooter with flashy guns, while staying close to its roots and providing something new to the table that the last two games couldn't.

Hell, maybe we could see some radical changes like activable perk skills, destructible environments, weapons with a learning curve, characters with actual perk/ability bonuses (i.e Mr.Foster gains slightly more dosh per kills while Lt. Masterson has bonus handling with assault rifles), less focus on raw skills to give place to tactical thinking...I think all of these would fit right into the game.

So yeah, if you made it through my essay of a post, I thank you for your time and consideration. I'm almost all out of beer, so I'll leave this to y'all. What's your opinion about the possibility of a third sequel and what would you think should be added?
 
Last edited:

Sarcy

Member
Dec 9, 2018
71
6
8
32
I concur, when you consider KF2's original content to what it has now I wonder how we all managed with just 2 Bosses and 1 mode of play for so long.

I'm pleased that we now have 3 fleshed out modes but still feel there's more to be done.
By the time Tripwire stops supporting KF2 I'd like to think that EVERY map will have Objective support but that's probably wishful thinking.
I'd also like to see more Bosses, granted it seems one is lined up for Christmas BUT how long before the novelty wears off???
I really hope before all is said and done we get another few so we have in the region of 8-10 unique AND challenging bosses to contend with.

One cause for concern, particularly as the 1st game did the same thing, is an overabundance of weaponry. Don't get me wrong I'm all for items which fill gaps or are totally unique but the problem is once we have all these fancy toys the Zeds become cannon fodder.

To compensate for I feel we need a tougher Zed [or two?] - not acrobatic bots or teleporting nuisances - ideally something which harks back to a time where hearing it spawn [if it even announces its arrival, could be more effective if you're unprepared and always wondering whether one might appear] means things are about to get serious.
Now what this Zed/these Zeds will be I've no idea although the potential for an aerial threat intrigues me - also I'd like to see the original plan for Crawlers come to fruition, imagine going down a creepy, dark corridor and one of them drops on you!

In summary [for KF2 and any potential sequels];
- Objective mode on ALL maps
- More Bosses which are unique and challenging [Super sizing a regular Zed or having something like Queen Fleshpound is not what we're after]
- Making sure any additions to the arsenal are worthy i.e. not simply a slight variation of an existing item [reusing existing assets like the HRG weapons is fine so long as it is not passed off as something 'new']
- Additional top-tier Zed/s to maintain difficulty and also bring back some of the fear which I feel has been lost over time
- Giving Crawlers all the movement options originally envisioned for KF2
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,510
161
63
Belgium
Well, truth be told, what could be done to improve the formula?

I don't feel a new game would add anything worthwhile. At least nothing that couldn't be added in KF2. Only a deep rework of what Killing Floor is would do the trick...but would that even be Killing Floor anymore?


Of course, some people spoke about a story mode... That's one way to put it. We could also have a real improvement on the versus system, to make it more similar to Left 4 Dead (for example).

Or we could bring forward a whole new gamemode. Who knows? But just adding new zeds and guns wouldn't be enough.
 

Sarcy

Member
Dec 9, 2018
71
6
8
32
A rework of the perks is a given - I was thinking something Borderlands style where there is a lot of options to go with but that might be a bit too deep for this franchise
 

WelshJester

Member
Jan 9, 2014
140
5
18
I think to move forward KF3 needs some upgrades in the way it works.

The zeds or bosses should have some kind of AI learning implemented, i think it's possible to do but last i heard it was used for controlling some bots in certain games against real players. This would definitely be a big help in making the game feel more fresh each time you play, because the zeds would act more human like. Maybe KF could become the first game to have such AI in it?

I also think the next game should have a full campaign mode with co-op, even if there were only 2-3 campaigns to begin with along with a few chapters each, though considering these games have usually used lower budgets i don't know if they would do that.