Now that the forums are back up...

[EdWeTodd]

It's time to address the elephant stampeding every other message board in the world.
10 real world dosh for a single weapon and some skins is a slap in the face to people who've supported you since kf1.
ive bought your skins and characters out right. I've even dumped money into your lame Zedconomy that is still far more inferior on consoles than pc. I've eaten a metaphorical lot of **** for you guys in hopes that what I was doing would guarantee worthwhile content.
8 weapons and 4 maps is all the "free" content we get while literally every other piece of content is locked behind your horrible rng scam.
I understand the lame excuses of making money because you're a business, not my friends and that's fine n dandy. I wouldn't mind giving you money if you gave us what we wanted instead of forcing horrid macro transactions last minute. You shoehorned loot boxes during early access to justify a minimum of 8 weapons and 4 maps throughout the year, the literal only reason I play this game is when you release new content to this bare bones game.
If you aren't making enough money through the Zedconomy to keep supporting this game, it's time to get rid of it. I've given you an additional 50 dollars for loot boxes that give me the same damn headband. Stop wasting our time and money on shitty rng loot boxes and bundle together cosmetics that are already in the game. This game doesn't have enough worthwhile content to justify selling individual weapons after the years of support WE gave YOU.
If I sound entitled I don't care, I'm tired of "supporting" games just to have my money backfire with even worse monetization. I'd be a little more respectful if there had been an actual discussion with the community before deciding this is a solid plan.

 

[EdWeTodd]

If you really need cash, get rid of the Zedconomy and bundle every item up into your 10 dollar packs. Give us 10 cosmetics for 10 dollars. You'll be able to see what people actually want with sales numbers rather than hate posts on social media.
If you really want to support this game, add an actual progression system that gives you a guaranteed item that isn't a duplicate headband or dosh glasses.
If you really care about the community, listen to us.

 

[Azukki]

Ah, I was wondering why the forums were down.

 

[EdWeTodd]

Ah, I was wondering why the forums were down.

They're down from this new forum merger i Believe.
Poor timing though

 

[s5yn3t]

Actually the powerline fell, so the servers for the forum and their kf2 wiki page were down... But yeh poor timing.

 

[Davski]

"This game doesn't have enough worthwhile content to justify selling individual weapons after the years of support WE gave YOU"

Are you talking about this? >>
https://www.pcgamer.com/killing-floor-2-will-offer-paid-weapon-dlc-in-future-content-updates/

 

[fwfdf1reman]

Not paying for weapons, packs or anything else. How about fixing what is broke in the game.................... like the Steam Workshop issue??!!

 

[EdWeTodd]

While this article does explain what's going on, I actually read the news on Steam with the forums here being down.
But no what I'm talking about is all the money we've given them has been wasted updating this horrid Zedconomy. I mean there isn't enough worthwhile content the player can easily obtain. 8 weapons and 4 maps a year was pretty barebones considering every other item in the game (which honestly at this point it's time to have a progression system that rewards definite items) is put into two separate rng systems, both of which suck ass and usually give out headbands instead of cool masks or weapon skins.
The zedconomy doesn't have enough worthwhile content that can be obtained. An intentional amount of filler items have bogged down any real value this game has.

 

[Yoshiro]

Quite a few fixes and balance updates that are dear to the community are coming in the Fall update. As those get verified by QA I'll be talking about some of them in the What We Are Up To posts. While we would love to address everything "right now" sadly we are not always able to do so. Work is split between new additions and improvement/fixes with a priority put on top community issues that we can reproduce.

The forums were down due to a powerline being taken out by a driver, which ended with one of our servers having a database corruption (which the forums, wiki and support site lived on). We recovered those or reverted to backups where needed and got everything back up on Sunday.

 

[Pharrahnox]

Yoshiro Is that like the "top community issues" you addressed in the last update? These ones:

• Fixed an issue where the Elite Crawler poison cloud damage radius did not match up with the FX.
• Fixed an issue where the Cyberpunk Outfit 1st person arms for Ana Larive and Mrs. Foster were always teal.
• Fixed an issue where players randomly received an infinite amount of crates.
• Fixed an issue where HMTech-501's grenade HUD displayed the spare ammo count instead of the total ammo count.

I have to say, they are most certainly not representative of the issues the community think are top. Where's the fix for close spawns and teleportation that lots of people have been complaining about for years? Where's the survivalist rework? Where's the perk skill balancing, so we don't have objectively inferior skills that no one will pick? Where's the implementation of the improved weapon upgrade system? But of course you picked those ones listed above because they're the easiest to fix.

I'd be somewhat ok with supporting you if you made changes I care about, not low effort bug fixes (plus more bugs each update), broken bug-ridden new content, and new maps with bad gameplay. But still not $15AUD for one gun. I think you've overestimated the optimal pricing for these DLC packs. I see almost no one using your paid character packs, again probably because of the price.

You'll probably find that while your fans will complain if they don't get free content updates, they don't actually put much value to what you've been giving. I know I don't when each update takes the game further away from the gameplay I used to enjoy - in EA and just after release.

 

[Yoshiro]

Pharrahnox Those would be examples of either "Low hanging fruit" or "stretch goals". When we are planning out an update, the production team lays out what resources are available. IE: Which personnel, and how much time of theirs. This is then used to estimate against what work the project lead would like to see done in terms of new work, refinements and fixes. When a person has time on project but not enough time for a primary task they either then pick up smaller items to fill that time (low hanging fruit) or have a set of smaller items already assigned to them (stretch goals) that were not officially part of their work load originally for that "sprint" of work.

 

[GigaBowserX]

I really don't understand where all the hate for these changes is coming from...people are saying the game is "bare-bones," a "bug-ridden mess," and similar very strong language. There is a lot of great content in this game. If you are tired of the official maps, check out the modding scene and play some of the community-made maps. I have played 500 hours of this game and have noticed very few bugs. I have bought the extra characters through the in-game shop as well as countless cosmetic items through the Steam marketplace. I understand that those who are playing on consoles don't have the option to buy the cosmetic they want and have to rely on drops from crates, but PC users have no excuse. If they want to complain about how expensive some of the cosmetics are on the marketplace, then they should educate themselves about economy and supply-demand. The more sought-after items NEED to be few and far between so that they can actually keep value. If everything were bundled into $5 or $10 packs, then every rare cosmetic would suddenly become commonplace.

If you don't want to invest money into the game, that's fine, but don't complain just because everything isn't handed to you on a platter. It sounds like the devs are taking every precaution necessary to avoid a "pay-to-win" scenario with the new weapons, so let's just wait and see how it goes before dealing out judgment and hellfire, shall we?

I just want to say "thank you" to the devs for giving us an awesome game that continues to receive support and updates. This is one of my favorite and most cherished games. Now, if TWI support could just be more responsive and actually answer my tickets...

 

[Aleflippy]

I really don't understand where all the hate for these changes is coming from...people are saying the game is "bare-bones," a "bug-ridden mess," and similar very strong language. There is a lot of great content in this game. If you are tired of the official maps, check out the modding scene and play some of the community-made maps. I have played 500 hours of this game and have noticed very few bugs. I have bought the extra characters through the in-game shop as well as countless cosmetic items through the Steam marketplace. I understand that those who are playing on consoles don't have the option to buy the cosmetic they want and have to rely on drops from crates, but PC users have no excuse. If they want to complain about how expensive some of the cosmetics are on the marketplace, then they should educate themselves about economy and supply-demand. The more sought-after items NEED to be few and far between so that they can actually keep value. If everything were bundled into $5 or $10 packs, then every rare cosmetic would suddenly become commonplace.

If you don't want to invest money into the game, that's fine, but don't complain just because everything isn't handed to you on a platter. It sounds like the devs are taking every precaution necessary to avoid a "pay-to-win" scenario with the new weapons, so let's just wait and see how it goes before dealing out judgment and hellfire, shall we?

I just want to say "thank you" to the devs for giving us an awesome game that continues to receive support and updates. This is one of my favorite and most cherished games. Now, if TWI support could just be more responsive and actually answer my tickets...

Dude, we're speaking about virtual items made of pixels. Do we live in a world so sunk inside consumerism that we must have economies built inside video games? That's pretty much what made me quit Team Fortress 2. Some people spend more time crafting a business rather than playing the freaking game.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but I'm an oldfag who used to UNLOCK his stuff. I want to get rewarded for the time invested in the game, not for how happy I am to open my wallet. I don't expect to receive legendary items by the dozen. But at least getting something cool after playing HoE matches for the whole night. Because right now, the only thing I get are duplicates and cheap paint jobs. It's okay at first, but after three years it's really grinding my gears.

Of course I'm more than glad that the game is kept alive. I'm actually impressed and happy that Killing Floor 2 survived for so long without paid content... Or survived so long,period. Four years in video game time is A LOT. With the amount of fun the game gave me, and the amount of work that's put into it...Yeah, I'll end up purchasing the new weapons. That doesn't mean I'm open to everything. Paying for extra work seems fair. But it's also fair to expect polish in return.

 

[GigaBowserX]

Dude, we're speaking about virtual items made of pixels. Do we live in a world so sunk inside consumerism that we must have economies built inside video games? That's pretty much what made me quit Team Fortress 2. Some people spend more time crafting a business rather than playing the freaking game.

I don't know how long you've been playing, but I'm an oldfag who used to UNLOCK his stuff. I want to get rewarded for the time invested in the game, not for how happy I am to open my wallet. I don't expect to receive legendary items by the dozen. But at least getting something cool after playing HoE matches for the whole night. Because right now, the only thing I get are duplicates and cheap paint jobs. It's okay at first, but after three years it's really grinding my gears.

Of course I'm more than glad that the game is kept alive. I'm actually impressed and happy that Killing Floor 2 survived for so long without paid content... Or survived so long,period. Four years in video game time is A LOT. With the amount of fun the game gave me, and the amount of work that's put into it...Yeah, I'll end up purchasing the new weapons. That doesn't mean I'm open to everything. Paying for extra work seems fair. But it's also fair to expect polish in return.

That's fair, I can get on board with demanding polish and professionalism. I know the drops and other "free" items are usually pretty crappy and give duplicates all the time. I really wish they had a system where the Vault Dosh crates would never drop any duplicates, but at least they made it to where you can craft a Vault Dosh item with only two materials instead of ten. Anyhow, I do find it sad that games come to be seen as "outdated" after only a few years - people should give older games more of a chance sometimes. I hope KF2 will survive a bit longer, because I haven't been in it for years like some other people have. I want a chance to keep playing it while it's still played by others and the servers aren't dead. I'm sure a lot of people will stop playing it if/when KF3 comes out.

I haven't played all that long, but in the time I have played I've managed to log 500 hours of playtime because this is one of my favorite games. It has some of the best gunplay I've ever found in a shooter, and shooting zombies in the head never seems to get old.

It would be nice and more than fair to get better rewards when you play on higher difficulties, I'll give you that.

 

[Aleflippy]

That's fair, I can get on board with demanding polish and professionalism. I know the drops and other "free" items are usually pretty crappy and give duplicates all the time. I really wish they had a system where the Vault Dosh crates would never drop any duplicates, but at least they made it to where you can craft a Vault Dosh item with only two materials instead of ten. Anyhow, I do find it sad that games come to be seen as "outdated" after only a few years - people should give older games more of a chance sometimes. I hope KF2 will survive a bit longer, because I haven't been in it for years like some other people have. I want a chance to keep playing it while it's still played by others and the servers aren't dead. I'm sure a lot of people will stop playing it if/when KF3 comes out.

Oh believe me when I say that I'm all for long-time support of games. Hell, I barely even play new games... Most of my time is spent on games I've been playing for years now. I dropped TF2, but I still play a lot of Killing Floor, Binding of Isaac, Age of Empires, Wipeout... I always feel better playing games I know well, games I'm certain I'll spend a good time with.

But after a while, you have to call it quits. You cannot keep a game alive forever, it just becomes a waste of ressources after a while. What many people seems to forget is that while videogames are certainly an art, it is also a product. It needs to make money... hence why we got DLCs ( no **** Sherlock). But even then, DLCs need to be sold otherwise they're pointless.

As faithful as the KF community is (I've been there for ten years, some have been for FIFTEEN), you cannot expect a game to thrive with merely a few hundreds fans. Hence why I'm honestly thinking that something big needs to be done in order to put the serie back into the spotlight. Either a re-release with a massive update or a new game...something else even !

I don't think KF2 is said and done. You can always add new things ! But I don't think I'd be surprised if this was the last year of updates. The first KF had a lifetime of six years until KF2's release... We still got one or two years !

 

[GigaBowserX]

Oh believe me when I say that I'm all for long-time support of games. Hell, I barely even play new games... Most of my time is spent on games I've been playing for years now. I dropped TF2, but I still play a lot of Killing Floor, Binding of Isaac, Age of Empires, Wipeout... I always feel better playing games I know well, games I'm certain I'll spend a good time with.

But after a while, you have to call it quits. You cannot keep a game alive forever, it just becomes a waste of ressources after a while. What many people seems to forget is that while videogames are certainly an art, it is also a product. It needs to make money... hence why we got DLCs ( no **** Sherlock). But even then, DLCs need to be sold otherwise they're pointless.

As faithful as the KF community is (I've been there for ten years, some have been for FIFTEEN), you cannot expect a game to thrive with merely a few hundreds fans. Hence why I'm honestly thinking that something big needs to be done in order to put the serie back into the spotlight. Either a re-release with a massive update or a new game...something else even !

I don't think KF2 is said and done. You can always add new things ! But I don't think I'd be surprised if this was the last year of updates. The first KF had a lifetime of six years until KF2's release... We still got one or two years !

I also rarely play games that are brand-new. It's mostly because I dislike the hype - and subsequent disappointment - that comes with some games. But also because I tend to get behind with so many releases constantly coming out. I am also limited by my hardware, because I started out playing FPSs on my little craptop and only recently got a rig that can run something like KF2. I'm a college student, so that's why I can't really afford the best at the moment. I only got into first-person shooters about four or five years ago, so I started from the beginning (read: Doom 1 and 2) and have been slowly working my way up into the modern era. I finally felt like it was time to play a brand-new game with the recent release of Wolfenstein: Youngblood, which isn't too bad as a game imo. But yeah, once I find a game I really like with the insane kind of replayability that KF2 has, it's hard to let go. The only other game that has held a similar level of replayability for me so far is Borderlands 2. I think it has something to do with the leveling/prestige system in these two games; it keeps me coming back for more.

I really hope we get to enjoy KF2 for a year or two more. Having only discovered it a few months ago, I feel that that would give me time to fully enjoy it before they move on to KF3. Speaking of re-releases, I would really love to see a remaster of KF1. I got the deluxe version of KF2, which came with KF1, and I tried playing it for a bit. However, the difficulty was just insane compared to KF2, not to mention the outdated mechanics (no sprinting?? No mounted flashlight, but only a flashlight on the pistol?) and the severely dated graphics. I find it hard to believe that that game came out in 2009, because the graphics look like something out of like 2003 or 2004. I mean, Crysis 2 came out in '08 or '09, and just look at what that game was able to accomplish graphically.

 

[Aleflippy]

I really hope we get to enjoy KF2 for a year or two more. Having only discovered it a few months ago, I feel that that would give me time to fully enjoy it before they move on to KF3. Speaking of re-releases, I would really love to see a remaster of KF1. I got the deluxe version of KF2, which came with KF1, and I tried playing it for a bit. However, the difficulty was just insane compared to KF2, not to mention the outdated mechanics (no sprinting?? No mounted flashlight, but only a flashlight on the pistol?) and the severely dated graphics. I find it hard to believe that that game came out in 2009, because the graphics look like something out of like 2003 or 2004. I mean, Crysis 2 came out in '08 or '09, and just look at what that game was able to accomplish graphically.

This though. I'm actually surprised KF1 hasn't been talked about more since KF2 left early access... But I guess it's only fair. I've tried two or three times to come back for nostalgia's sake and... ****, I'm forced to admit that the game aged pretty badly. Yes, it was dirtier and creepier... and harder ! But there are so many stuff missing that you simply cannot come back after playing the sequel.

 

[s5yn3t]

At this point anyone who tries to go back to kf1 for nostalgia trip, is just to hear those amazing voice lines xD

 

[Dr. Lethal]

This though. I'm actually surprised KF1 hasn't been talked about more since KF2 left early access... But I guess it's only fair. I've tried two or three times to come back for nostalgia's sake and... ****, I'm forced to admit that the game aged pretty badly. Yes, it was dirtier and creepier... and harder ! But there are so many stuff missing that you simply cannot come back after playing the sequel.

The reason why KF1 is considered harder is because it lacks some of the core functionality of the sequel, like sprinting, being able to shove zeds, extremely specialized grind qualifications, no universal weapon pricing, etc. It's pretty amazing that in spite of coming out almost around the same time L4D2 did, but L4D looks way better in general until you get to KF2. It could be the use of different game engines though.

 

[GigaBowserX]

This though. I'm actually surprised KF1 hasn't been talked about more since KF2 left early access... But I guess it's only fair. I've tried two or three times to come back for nostalgia's sake and... ****, I'm forced to admit that the game aged pretty badly. Yes, it was dirtier and creepier... and harder ! But there are so many stuff missing that you simply cannot come back after playing the sequel.

As far as I could tell in the little I played of KF1, there are still servers up and running and people who play on them, but I'm sure it's not nearly as many as currently play KF2. I did like some aspects of KF1 - starting out with just the pistol instead of a perk weapon was a nice touch, I feel. But yes, having only one type of boss, very dated graphics, and stiff gameplay just gets to be pretty grating after a while. I wonder what it was like to play KF1 in its heyday? Must've been pretty fun.