New Perk and Weapons: Stunner

[BenioX]

Do not post your opinions about each particular specimen suggestion here. Go to the link(s) and post your opinion of the idea there. Do not post your own new ideas about specimens here and expect them to be discussed. Make a new thread first (if your idea is unique), then you can have it added to this compilation.

Perk: Stunner/Shocker/Engineer/Technician

Abilities:
Lvl 0:
+5% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
10% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 50% hp renew
10% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 1 second
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 2 seconds from heal

Lvl 1:
+10% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
20% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 55% hp renew
20% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 2 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 3 seconds from heal

Lvl 2:
+15% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
30% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 60% hp renew
30% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 3 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 4 seconds from heal

Lvl 3:
+20% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
40% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 65% hp renew
40% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 3 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 4 seconds from heal

Lvl 4:
+25% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
50% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 70% hp renew
50% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 4 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 4 seconds from heal

Lvl 5:
+30% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
60% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 75% hp renew
60% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 4 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 4 seconds from heal

Lvl 6:
+35% chance to stun enemies with Stunner weapons
75% Stunner weapons discount
heals with only 80% hp renew
75% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 5 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 5 seconds from heal

Idea thanks to Compass: When the perk has the 12-gauge shotgun, he can shoot XREP projectiles from that. It works same like standard shotgun, but also adds stun/slowdown effect and adds little more damage depending on level of perk, for example +5% for lvl 0, +10% for lvl 1, +15% for lvl2, +20% for lvl3, +25% lvl4, +30% lvl5, +35% lvl6.

Leveling up:
Leveling up is about how many ZEDS you stun. Same like for example sharpshooter with headshots, same stunner with stuns. For example for lvl1 needs 200 stuns, lvl2 500 stuns etc etc. ofc it's just example. Any feedback on this appreciated.

Guns:
Stun Rod
Stun time: 3
Damage: 20
Attack Speed: 1.20
Alt Damage: 50
Alt Attack Speed: 1.60
Range 100
Headshot dmg. multiplyer: x1.5
Auto Attack: No
Player Speed bonus: Yes
Weight: 4
Cost:

 

[Deafmute]

Dude, a 2-3 second stun is way too long. The Crossbow's stun effect in non-Beta KF is 1 second and that is still too long. This would make big guys a joke.

What purpose would this perk serve in gameplay anyway? Like, yeah, I get it. He stuns things. But what would he add to the game?

 

[HalfDemon]

Dude, a 2-3 second stun is way too long. The Crossbow's stun effect in non-Beta KF is 1 second and that is still too long. This would make big guys a joke.

What purpose would this perk serve in gameplay anyway? Like, yeah, I get it. He stuns things. But what would he add to the game?

Agreed.

 

[BenioX]

Dude, a 2-3 second stun is way too long. The Crossbow's stun effect in non-Beta KF is 1 second and that is still too long. This would make big guys a joke.

[Stun time gets reduced also with strenth of monster proportionally. Husks get -1 second stun, Scrakes -2 seconds stun, FP -3 seconds stun, Patriarch is immune for stunners, but stun guns slow him down by 10% from each shot.

What purpose would this perk serve in gameplay anyway? Like, yeah, I get it. He stuns things. But what would he add to the game?

Stunning is already big help. Especially when huge hordes are incoming, mostly clots, they get stunned for long time. Remember each enemy's strengh decides on if gets stunned or not. And remember not each shot stuns, there is % per level for stunning. Also, their armor is big help. It's like Berserker almost with clots when he has armor, because clots can't really grab him when he has the armor. He actually adds alot - help with doors weilding - traps. Helps with slowing down hordes - flash grenades, slows down patriarch, and with his best gun he can slow down FP (but it takes time to shoot again if he misses)

 

[Deafmute]

"heals with only 80% hp renew
75% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 5 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 5 seconds from heal"

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the he heals for 80% of his health? Can he heal/repair armor? If his armor is damaged by 75%, he stuns whatever enemy is hitting him for 5 seconds? What if the enemy is an FP? Is he stunned for five seconds too? Yes, I see what you're saying about FPs getting -3 stun. Is that 3 subtracted from 5? Still too long.

This idea sounds way overpowered so I'd like to see it fleshed out more.

 

[BenioX]

"heals with only 80% hp renew
75% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 5 seconds
adds stunning effect to melee damages of the healed person for 5 seconds from heal"

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying the he heals for 80% of his health? Can he heal/repair armor? If his armor is damaged by 75%, he stuns whatever enemy is hitting him for 5 seconds? What if the enemy is an FP? Is he stunned for five seconds too? Yes, I see what you're saying about FPs getting -3 stun. Is that 3 subtracted from 5? Still too long.

You missunderstood I guess.
Heals with only 80% hp renew means that if you get damaged, and then Stunner heals you, he heals you not with 20hp but with 80% of 20 (maths...), less than others would heal you with, but also adds you a stun effect to your melee weapons for 5 seconds, each stun works around 1 or 2 seconds.
75% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 5 seconds - explaination - if for example monster x hits you with 100 hp damage, he gets 75 damage from your armor (electro-shock from electric armor) and stuns the monster for 5 seconds (remember some monsters got some resistance, so they get stunned for less time).
Yes, FP when gets hit with weapon giving 5 seconds stun, he is stunned for 2 seconds. BUT it's not too long if you think - Stunner doesn't stun with each bullet. There is % chance of stun. It means he has to hit enough times to stun him. So look at his best weapon and higher level of this perk. Chance to stun FP with first bullet isn't that high, and his shooting and reloading speed is very low compared to other guns.
And STUN effect as I mentioned before, is dependant on which ZED gets stunned. It's answer for the armor.
And about armor - same rules as for normal armor, except that he has the stun ability and strike-back. Tho I must say I forgot to mention the % of damage of strike-back can't be bigger than armor health. For example even on perk 6 with armor with 1 health won't make more than 1% of the strike-back damage.

This idea sounds way overpowered so I'd like to see it fleshed out more.

Sounds way overpowered, but after beta you'll see it isn't as overpowered as FP or Scrake on which stun will really be needed as for what I heard. Not to mention perk like this would have a unique function.

*EDIT: If the stun-lengh is really a problem, please, suggest alternative time for each ZED.

 

[Deafmute]

You missunderstood I guess.
Heals with only 80% hp renew means that if you get damaged, and then Stunner heals you, he heals you not with 20hp but with 80% of 20 (maths...), less than others would heal you with, but also adds you a stun effect to your melee weapons for 5 seconds, each stun works around 1 or 2 seconds.

So gimped heals in exchange for melee weapons that can stun? This sounds like it would only be beneficial in any way for Zerker. I'm a Commando, why should I care if my knife can stun a Clot? Why should a Firebug care? And don't say "start carrying a Katana."

75% of damage taken to armor strikes back at enemy with stunning effect for 5 seconds - explaination - if for example monster x hits you with 100 hp damage, he gets 75 damage from your armor (electro-shock from electric armor) and stuns the monster for 5 seconds (remember some monsters got some resistance, so they get stunned for less time).

If he hits you with 100 damage? You'd be dead, mate. Unless I'm misunderstanding here.

Yes, FP when gets hit with weapon giving 5 seconds stun, he is stunned for 2 seconds. BUT it's not too long if you think - Stunner doesn't stun with each bullet. There is % chance of stun. It means he has to hit enough times to stun him. So look at his best weapon and higher level of this perk. Chance to stun FP with first bullet isn't that high, and his shooting and reloading speed is very low compared to other guns.

It is definitely too long. Anyway, if there's only 35% chance of stunning for level 6, what's the point? Do you ask your teammates to wait, let me shoot him on the off-chance I stun him, at which point he will be completely immobilized for 2 seconds? Anything else would be too high and 35% isn't enough to make it worthwhile.

Sounds way overpowered, but after beta you'll see it isn't as overpowered as FP or Scrake on which stun will really be needed as for what I heard. Not to mention perk like this would have a unique function.

*EDIT: If the stun-lengh is really a problem, please, suggest alternative time for each ZED.

We've been getting on just fine without stunning weapons. Unique != useful or conducive to gameplay. I'm pretty sure Tripwire hasn't added a Stunner class for a reason: it'd make Zeds a joke. How would this thing level up anyway?

.3 seconds stun max.

 

[BenioX]

So gimped heals in exchange for melee weapons that can stun? This sounds like it would only be beneficial in any way for Zerker. I'm a Commando, why should I care if my knife can stun a Clot? Why should a Firebug care? And don't say "start carrying a Katana."

It's not really important but just an add. And knife is melee too.

If he hits you with 100 damage? You'd be dead, mate. Unless I'm misunderstanding here.

100 hp damage isn't death if you have an ARMOR which I am talking about.

It is definitely too long. Anyway, if there's only 35% chance of stunning for level 6, what's the point? Do you ask your teammates to wait, let me shoot him on the off-chance I stun him, at which point he will be completely immobilized for 2 seconds? Anything else would be too high and 35% isn't enough to make it worthwhile.

Just give some suggestions about the time of stun etc. And 35% chance is worth a while if for example there are 3 FPs. On one of them most likely it'll work.

We've been getting on just fine without stunning weapons. Unique != useful or conducive to gameplay. I'm pretty sure Tripwire hasn't added a Stunner class for a reason: it'd make Zeds a joke. How would this thing level up anyway?

.3 seconds stun max.

We've been getting on just fine without demolition perk too. And reason why they didn't add stunner is - they didn't have this idea, obviously. Demolition, Mac-10 Scrake and Husk didn't exist before, too.

Leveling up... wow, there is what I forgot about.
Leveling up is about how many ZEDS you stun. Same like for example sharpshooter with headshots, same stunner with stuns. For example for lvl1 needs 200 stuns, lvl2 500 stuns etc etc. I gonna add this info now

 

[Deafmute]

It's not really important but just an add. And knife is melee too.

Yes, that is what I meant. That's likely the only melee weapon anyone will be carrying aside from Zerker and maybe Medic, not so much after the patch though. If it wouldn't really serve a purpose, why add it?

100 hp damage isn't death if you have an ARMOR which I am talking about.

Okay, but what if there are multiple enemies surrounding you? Would they all get stunned? In the next patch you wouldn't be able to escape a Clot's grab; would the stunning negate this? If you get surrounded or trapped, that's your fault. No need to reward users for playing poorly.

Just give some suggestions about the time of stun etc. And 35% chance is worth a while if for example there are 3 FPs. On one of them most likely it'll work.

I did. .3 seconds max. If there are 3 FPs, your team is going to be so busy focusing on the first 2 that they'll hardly notice a third being stunned. Trust me.

We've been getting on just fine without demolition perk too. And reason why they didn't add stunner is - they didn't have this idea, obviously. Demolition, Mac-10 Scrake and Husk didn't exist before, too.

They probably didn't add Stunner because there's no real demand or desire for it from their playerbase. No, we didn't need Demo, but it is helpful when people aren't being complete retards with it. Husk is the first real ranged enemy aside from Siren and adds a lot to the game. MAC10 exists because Firebug needed another weapon.

 

[Carbon Fox]

(Woops please delete previous posts, my phone was being stupid and sent it before I finished)

O_O
I like this idea a lot... It is different from the other classes and is not redundant and can give new strategies and can be a great deal of help to teamplay...

I agree stun can be op but make it too short and then it becomes pointless, so I say for clots, crawlers and stalkers stun is fine but for everything else maybe a movement debuff. Like say since they are stronger or because they are bigger they resist the stun effect but they move slower since they don't have 100% muscle control. This would be helpful for slowing down powerful foes to either give a targeted ally time to get the hell out of there to get healed or to give the team more time to hail bullets on said target.
For a random number maybe like:

Lvl 0: no debuff
Lvl 1: 5% movement debuff applied
Lvl 2: 10% movement debuff
Lvl 3: 15% movement debuff
Lvl 4: 20% movement debuff
Lvl 5: 25% movement debuff
Lvl 6: 30% movement debuff

But this would be applied if they are still under the effects of the "shock" so maybe instead of doing a lot of one time damage hit maybe it would work like the Firebug and have a lasting "after effect" and be more of a dps weapon. Like for the melee weapon would do about as much damage as a knife/machete but would leave a 3-5 second after effect dealing X damage every second and would receive a .5 second stun if a lesser foe and also the movement debuff.

And even though tough to code but maybe the stun gun can be more of a "tethered" weapon that has a charge of 100% and when "tethered" it will deal x damage second and lose the charge at a rate of maybe 5% a second and apply debuffs. And would have a 3 dart clip, but for a twist lesser foes will be perma stun as long as the "tether" is connected until the target is gibbed. Oh and maybe the charge regenerates at a rate of 20% a second as long as its not tethered.

It would have a 2-3 second after effect after the tether is broken either by target getting too far away or the tether is forced broken by pressing alt fire. But if the three shots are used up you will endure a reload.

Just some ideas and numbers but I like to think of this more of a single target debuff dps perk. Maybe leveling up would work just by damage.

I really do like the idea and after thinking about the possibilities and how much he can assist the team either by slowing down the scrake that has his chainsaw in someone's arse or giving a little bit of extra time to mow down a fp.

The problem though is implementing it though but if tripwire plans on adding new content I hope this gets a look at.

(Also sorry for the extra posts, my phone's touchscreen is shoddy but I plan on getting a new one. So if I can delete my posts I will, but if we can't do that here then please delete the other ones and it won't happen again!)

 

[9_6]

I dunno.
Sounds like a gimped, boring version of the berserker :/

 

[BenioX]

Yes, that is what I meant. That's likely the only melee weapon anyone will be carrying aside from Zerker and maybe Medic, not so much after the patch though. If it wouldn't really serve a purpose, why add it?

It does serve a purpose. And it's actually aestetics. Stunner is so loaded with energy that he gives it to healed people. Really a nice add for Zerker, and if you don't have ammo you use knife. Handy purpose.

Okay, but what if there are multiple enemies surrounding you? Would they all get stunned? In the next patch you wouldn't be able to escape a Clot's grab; would the stunning negate this? If you get surrounded or trapped, that's your fault. No need to reward users for playing poorly.

Each one which hits you depending on their strengh, for example clots mostly will get stunned, but not for example fleshpound.

I did. .3 seconds max. If there are 3 FPs, your team is going to be so busy focusing on the first 2 that they'll hardly notice a third being stunned. Trust me.

3 seconds max? And you complained on 2 seconds being too much.
And if there are 3 fps and noone notices 3rd stunned, the stunner at least does and has time to still shoot. That's the purpose - he slows down enemies, but doesn't really kill unless clots or any other weak enemies. Purpose is to slow down enemy. There is no perk like that yet as far as I noticed. Most of them are or heavy damaging one enemy, or piercing through many enemies with less damage, also demoman who explodes enemies and medic who heals. Zerker I'd count in heavy-damaging.

They probably didn't add Stunner because there's no real demand or desire for it from their playerbase. No, we didn't need Demo, but it is helpful when people aren't being complete retards with it. Husk is the first real ranged enemy aside from Siren and adds a lot to the game. MAC10 exists because Firebug needed another weapon.

As well as demo is helpfull as well stunner would be. But after all it's all just YOUR opinions. And I accept them. If you don't like this idea, then fine. You don't have to. It's nice you even reasoned why. And it helps me to improve the idea.

I dunno.
Sounds like a gimped, boring version of the berserker :/

Berserker uses ranged weapons? Well, maybe, but not as his main.

 

[9_6]

Berserker uses ranged weapons?

Berserker stuns/tanks/outright kills scrakes and everything below.

 

[BenioX]

Berserker stuns/tanks/outright kills scrakes and everything below.

But zerker's chance for stun is like 100%, Stunner's is alot lower, but he can shoot to stun, doesn't have to get closer to enemies. Purpose of Stunner is to slow down hordes and single enemies, maybe even kill them if shoots enough times ofc. but the purpose is to teamwork

 

[Deafmute]

It does serve a purpose. And it's actually aestetics. Stunner is so loaded with energy that he gives it to healed people. Really a nice add for Zerker, and if you don't have ammo you use knife. Handy purpose.

Zerker doesn't really need a buff of any sort, he excels at melee as it is. People usually don't run out of ammo unless they're picking up slack for another player anyway.

Each one which hits you depending on their strengh, for example clots mostly will get stunned, but not for example fleshpound.

Still is a crutch for allowing yourself to get surrounded.

3 seconds max? And you complained on 2 seconds being too much.

.3. Point three. As in less than a second.

And if there are 3 fps and noone notices 3rd stunned, the stunner at least does and has time to still shoot. That's the purpose - he slows down enemies, but doesn't really kill unless clots or any other weak enemies. Purpose is to slow down enemy. There is no perk like that yet as far as I noticed. Most of them are or heavy damaging one enemy, or piercing through many enemies with less damage, also demoman who explodes enemies and medic who heals. Zerker I'd count in heavy-damaging.

Fair enough.

As well as demo is helpfull as well stunner would be. But after all it's all just YOUR opinions. And I accept them. If you don't like this idea, then fine. You don't have to. It's nice you even reasoned why. And it helps me to improve the idea.

Fair enough as well, but it needs work to be balanced and...fun to play. Right now it doesn't sound very fun.

 

[9_6]

But zerker's chance for stun is like 100%, Stunner's is alot lower, but he can shoot to stun, doesn't have to get closer to enemies. Purpose of Stunner is to slow down hordes and single enemies, maybe even kill them if shoots enough times ofc. but the purpose is to teamwork

Do we really need another perk for this though?
That's like having a separate perk for welding (which has even been suggested before, go figure).

There is nothing that makes this perk all too interesting on its own so you might as well just have unperked weapons that can just stun enemies.

 

[BenioX]

Zerker doesn't really need a buff of any sort, he excels at melee as it is. People usually don't run out of ammo unless they're picking up slack for another player anyway.

That's why it's just an add. Aestetics kinda. He heals health but also takes a little from electroshock which team mate can share with enemies. But as well I think the healing should give "electrical armor" ability for period of time. What do you think about it?

Still is a crutch for allowing yourself to get surrounded.

When surrounded yes, I agree on this. But on single enemy it's handy, the harder one, the better use of it. Now when we cleared that out, this part, this question is no more to discuss

.3. Point three. As in less than a second.

If that's what you meant, I never saw a stun shorter than a second. Mostly stuns as I noticed work for some seconds, especially zerker's on Scrake. Sometimes he stands still for 5 seconds from times to times looking left and right. But if that's so, I can make alternative version of it and see if others agree. Like adding 0. before the times, for example 4 seconds I will make into 0.4 second.

Fair enough.

No more questions =]

Fair enough as well, but it needs work to be balanced and...fun to play. Right now it doesn't sound very fun.

And that's what this thread is all about. To ballance it and make it fun. But from the other hand - fun is weird to describe. Medic doesn't sound fun, either, nor does Berserker. Somehow many people choose them and have fun

Do we really need another perk for this though?
That's like having a separate perk for welding (which has even been suggested before, go figure).

There is nothing that makes this perk all too interesting on its own so you might as well just have unperked weapons that can just stun enemies.

Alternative question: Do we need Demoman for killing monsters? Same thing. They could just not make demoman since you have other, as well deadly perks.
And it's not like separate for weilding, but something different. Stun is an add for him which makes him perk, but isn't ALL. The weapons DO damage, the weapons CAN stun and they can help teamwork, like the trap on doors. Slowing down is ability which NO perk so far has. If has, then not on purpose and is not easy to notice.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Hey guys, first time poster, long time stalker and had to make an account to post just how much I love this idea!

I would really love this perk and I would truly play it all the time if it became a reality as it sounds like a ton of fun. The only thing though is I don't like the name "Stunner" I think "Shocker" sounds better to me.

Also maybe a great weapon for this perk is this. Oh and this!

 

[Compass]

How about Tasers?

X26 Taser ECD

[url]http://taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERX26.aspx[/URL]

Cost: $5000, subtracted for Medic Gun Discount (750 for Medic 0, 150 for Medic 6)
Weight 3
Ammo 1 in gun/15 in collection
Shots are $20 a pop
Range 20 feet - about as far as the siren yells.
Primary Fire - Fires a single bolt - stuns a SINGLE specimen until you release the trigger. You are unable to move or turn when this is in progress (simulated overcharge). Reloading or switching weapons stops the stunning effect immediately. CAN FRIENDLY FIRE.
Secondary Fire - Fires healing dart.
Reload Time: 2 seconds
Purpose: Allows you to hold a large-type specimen in most cases, such as a Fleshpound, at bay from raging, while leaving you vulnerable to other smaller specimens, allowing your team to WORK TOGETHER to take it down. Due to the long reload and poor range, and utter lack of offensive power, this weapon is meant for team defense. Does not work against the Patriarch.


X12 Mossberg Shotgun

[url]http://taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERX12.aspx[/URL]

Cost: $10000!, subtracted for Medic Gun Discount (1500 for Medic 0, 300 for Medic 6)
Weight 5
Ammo 4 in gun/16 in collection
Shots are $40 a pop
Range - Same as all guns, but has accuracy of Pump shotgun (moderate spread, making long-range poor use of this weapon)
Primary Fire - Fires a single ranged taser projectile- stuns a SINGLE specimen for 5 seconds. CAN FRIENDLY FIRE. Additional rounds placed on the specimen do not stack (if you tase again 3 seconds after a Spec is tased, they will be tased for 5 seconds)
Secondary Fire - Fires healing dart.
Flashlight
Reload Time: Same as normal shotgun.
Purpose: Allows you to provide support or hold an enemy at bay for short periods of time.

Does not work against the Patriarch.

See -> Medic

 

[9_6]

The difference between the demolitions an the "stunner" perk is that

A) Explosives were in the game all along and people asked for a perk to cover them
B) It's actually fun to play
C) It has a name that doesn't sound retarded

The "stunner", lacks either of those characteristics. So please stop comparing them.