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My take on the whole "Survivalist needs a rework thing"

flashn00b

Grizzled Veteran
  • Feb 1, 2011
    912
    104
    I dunno if he actually needs a rework to be honest. IMO, i think it'd be more prudent to buff his current skillset with the only skills being reworked outright are Melee Expert, Medic Training and Lockdown. Maybe this would work?

    Passives
    Weapon Damage: 0.6% * Level (Unchanged)
    Global Damage Resistance: 1% * level (unchanged)
    Heavy Body Armor: 1% * level (unchanged)
    Zed Time Reload: 3% * level (unchanged)
    Weapon Switch Speed: 2.4% * Level (New passive, max switch speed of 60%)
    Perk Weapon Damage: 0.4 * Level (Max 10%, effectively 25% w/ neutral weapon damage bonus)

    Since the Survivalist is to carry an arsenal of guns belonging to multiple perks, it seems prudent for him to be able to switch weapons much faster than everyone else. This can also make weapons with slow switch speeds much more bearable to use.

    Level 5: Weapon Handling
    Tactical Reload: Now includes Field Medic, Survivalist and Berserker Weapons on top of SWAT, Commando and Gunslinger weapons
    Heavy Weapons Training: Now includes Firebug, Survivalist and Berserker Weapons on top of Sharpshooter, Support and Demo weapons

    Survivalist, Berserker and Field Medic don't fall under any category of the Tactical Reload skills. The arsenal of the firebug seems to fall in line with what constitutes as a heavy weapon, while the Field Medic's arsenal is mostly some variation of a rapid fire weapon. As for Berserker and Survivalist weapons falling into both categories, there's currently no way to reload faster with Survivalist weapons and with the Tactical Reload skill, you'll most likely be using high RoF low damage weapons, which will likely have the Survivalist rely on the Pulverizer for Large Zed kills.

    Level 10: Melee Combat
    This section will be reworked outright. Rather than picking between better healing and melee combat proficiency, i think the choice should be replaced with better healing vs better shooting, with both skills giving the same level of effectiveness in melee combat. This is because the extra healing from Medic Training is usually worthless compared to the ability to run faster. Because of this, my suggestions for Level 10 skills are:

    Mad Doctor: Increase syringe potency recharge speed 50%, melee attack speed 20%, and move 25% faster when using any melee weapon. All melee weapons deal untyped damage over time.
    CQB Training: Increase neutral weapon damage 10% melee attack speed 20%, melee weapon damage 40% and move 25% faster when using any melee weapon.

    Mad Doctor is an sort of an amalgamation of Melee Expert and Medic Training, trying to adhere to the cramped space within the text boxes of each skill while also trying to give the best of both worlds. The idea of dealing damage over time seems to be more in line of a crazy doctor who likes their scalpel a little too much. Ideally, the DoT should deal more total damage than Melee Expert in its current implementation.

    CQB Training is what would allow the Survivalist to bring his neutral weapon damage up to 25%, so as to catch up with other perks in terms of killing power. The intention i have with this suggestion is to guarantee the acquisition of Melee Expert at level 10 regardless of what skill you choose.

    Level 15: Equipment
    This is mostly to increase the late game viability of Ammo Vest while also increasing the early game viability of Weapon Harness.

    Ammo Vest: Carry up to 15% more ammo for all weapons and your grenade becomes a Medic Grenade. Also increase magazine size 50%
    Weapon Harness: Increase carrying capacity by 5 and your grenade becomes a Fragmentation Grenade. Begin the game with a second Random Weapon and 100 less dosh

    From my experience, most of the Survivalist's killing power comes from being able to carry 20 blocks worth of weapons though this won't do you much good when you start the game. Weapon Harness giving you two starting weapons would give room for more flexibility when you start the game, and you'll probably have a better chance of spawning with a more desirable weapon if you end up starting with the 1858 revolvers or Caulk n' Burn. The dosh penalty is to account for the fact that Tier 1 weapons sell for $100 so overall, you don't actually gain or lose any extra money. Also, i don't think anyone really likes the molotov cocktail at all and the extra weight capacity is a support thing. Might as well give him support grenades, i think.

    As for Ammo Vest, increasing magazine sizes seems like the best way to compensate for not being able to carry the harder hitting guns when you're limited to 15 blocks. I think this buff might actually have to go as far as to ignore the hard caps on the DBS (Now a triple-barrel), Doomstick (invisible fifth and sixth barrels) and Buckshot Revolvers (7 round cylinder?) in order to compensate for your limited arsenal.

    Level 20: Destruction
    I really don't know what can be changed here. Movin' on.

    Level 25: Specialist Training
    Madman: During Zed Time, all weapons shoot 3x faster. Also increase melee attack speed by 300%
    Grenadier: Weapons do not require reloading during Zed Time

    The change to Madman is more of a nitpick than anything since it doesn't benefit from melee weapons. You're pretty much SOL if you find yourself triggering zed time with your knife or crovel.

    As for Grenadier, i don't think lockdown can be saved. My suggestion is to outright replace it with a weaker version of Whirlwind of Lead that doesn't give you unlimited ammo but allows you to have 240 RPM on all single shot weapons. I can still see Madman being preferable for SWAT and Commando weapons along with high RoF shotguns such as the AA-12, HMTECH301 and VLAD-1000.
     
    I feel the Survivalist would be better off with a passive reload speed about 0.8% a level (20% at lvl 25) and the weapon handling could be used for 2 new skills.
    Something kinda like the first 2 skills the berserker has.
    Beef Cake:+25 armour and +50 health.
    Hard to Catch: Clots can't grab you, move 10-20% faster(always active) and regenerate 1 point of health every second.

    Or maybe do the Support/Commando thing of either
    get Bigger Mags or even faster reloads for everything.

    Kinda like the Mad Doctor(Would of called it Mad Medic personally), Pretty much got the bleed damage skill the Field Medic had back early in the beta.(hopefully it dose a lot more than the 1-3 damage it did back then)
    CQB Training also sound good.

    And the weapon harness giving you a usable grenade might make the lvl 20 skill "make things go boom" better.
     
    Upvote 0
    Personally, I'm still on the side that says that Survivalist would be better served with a rework. The current design means that you're pretty much always going to be better than the perk you're mimicking at doing something or worse than them depending on balancing (rather than different). If better, then why play as the original perk? If worse... why pick Survivalist? You can always off-perk weapons as another perk if you need to fill a gap with some added variety. I feel it's possible to make the Survivalist strong while simultaneously giving them a unique identity that's valuable to the team. (My most recent iteration at this can be found here. I didn't explain my choices because I didn't want to lose people in a sea of words, but I can explain each choice for those curious!)

    HOWEVER.... If the Survivalist doesn't receive a total rework, I really like the buffs you've done here! Good work! :)
    Here are some thoughts and notes on what you've suggested:

    Passives
    All of these seem like very reasonable suggestions! The only thing I'd point out is that you could consider removing the "Melee Movement Speed" from Level 10 and adding it as a Passive (since you get it regardless of which side you pick). I don't know how you'd word things to keep things at six Passives for screen space, but for some reason this edit makes more sense to me.

    Level 5
    I strongly disagree with the current design of splitting the reload speeds into two skills, as it goes against the whole idea of the perk (a flexible jack-of-all-trades). In my own rework I thought hard on how I could combine them while making the alternate skill a meaningful choice.
    That all said... if the current design is going to stay, then your additions make perfect sense and I completely agree with you!

    Level 10: Mad Doctor
    Although DoT effects in this game are more often underwhelming than not, I am definitely intrigued by this idea! If done right it would add a bit of "hit-and-run" to the melee tactics. However, I think you could further differentiate this skill from the alternate Level 10 skill by removing the melee attack speed and adding in damage resistance while holding a melee weapon (turning "Mad Doctor" into more of a "tanky" skill, with the alternate skill being focused on damage). Something like... "Increase healing potency and recharge speed by 50%. Reduce damage while holding a melee weapon by 35%, and heavy melee strikes apply Bleeding." Bleeding sort of makes sense with the "Mad Doctor" theme, has a DoT effect, and gives a bit of unique debuff utility. (Limited to heavy strikes in order to not make it too easy to apply, and to balance for Eviscerator!)

    Level 10: CQB Training
    Although I think there are better ways of buffing the Survivalist than simply upping their global damage (as that begins to encroach upon the territory of the other perks), it is definitely the simplest and easiest way of making sure they're more effective. If that's the route taken, then I agree with the suggestion of this skill!

    Level 15
    Again, if the current design is to stay "as-is", your suggestions make sense! I have no extra notes here.

    Level 20
    I agree with you that the current skills are pretty solid. My only complaint is that "Make Things Go Boom" is oddly specific towards Demolitionist weapons when the Survivalist is supposed to be a jack-of-all trades. MTGB is effective, though, and I've always kept "Zedsplosion" in each iteration of my own rework.

    Level 25
    I agree COMPLETELY with the "Madman" buff! As for "Grenadier"... I'm not sure that will be a viable alternative choice to "Madman". Not only do you attack in near real-time, but you still have your ZED Time Reload Passive to consider. Not having to reload isn't strong enough to compete with real-time attacking, especially when you already get real-time reloads. It also doesn't necessarily fit the "Grenadier" name if you have certain loadouts.
    I just made this up on the spot, but what about this: "Move and Swap Weapons in real-time during ZED Time. Additionally, each time ZED Time is triggered you regenerate a grenade." (Note that it would be "when triggered", not when extended.)

    Again, solid buffs overall! Thanks for sharing!
     
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