Mixed feelings about bullet penetration?

[wahoo4]

How do you guys feel about bullet penetration? I'm have very mixed feelings about it and I hope there is much less penetration than most other games. I know it's going happen, but one thing I got tired of was getting shot with MG through just about everything. In buildings it's difficult to find a place to escape. This may be realistic, but it also removed much of the cover needed to survive with single shot weapons. I love sniper and bolt play and it's going to be difficult to play against many of the MGs that can level a building. I actually like not having it and it's one reason I still enjoy playing COD2 and RO1.

 

[Agenda_Suicide]

MG's are restricted to only a few per team. Not everyone will being running spraying mg fire every where like in cod or bad company. It has been said that different materials have different penetration values. If you want to survive find hard cover. I wonder if distance and caliber is a factor as well?

 

[wahoo4]

I would like to have multiple human penetration allowing you to mow down more than one soldiers behind each other. LOL I use my fellow teammates for cover in RO1. I want to at least wound them depending on the weapon.

 

[wahoo4]

I find it hard enough as a rifleman to stop an MG player, not impossible, but very difficult in RO1. The suppression makes it impossible to shoot, so if they can shoot through everything they will be unstoppable. If you remove the cover for single shot players then it makes it really unbalanced I think. I just hope a lot of the materials are not penetrating on the first or even second pass.

MG's are restricted to only a few per team. Not everyone will being running spraying mg fire every where like in cod or bad company. It has been said that different materials have different penetration values. If you want to survive find hard cover. I wonder if distance and caliber is a factor as well?

 

[Fedorov]

How do you guys feel about bullet penetration?

I'll love it as long as all the penetration values depending on material/weapon/distance are kept realistic.

 

[wahoo4]

I'll love it as long as all the penetration values depending on material/weapon/distance are kept realistic.

I think realistically even three layers of brick won't come close to stopping an MG focus firing for a sec. lol

 

[Actin]

I find it hard enough as a rifleman to stop an MG player, not impossible, but very difficult in RO1. The suppression makes it impossible to shoot, so if they can shoot through everything they will be unstoppable. If you remove the cover for single shot players then it makes it really unbalanced I think. I just hope a lot of the materials are not penetrating on the first or even second pass.

You forget it works both ways (or just overlooked it).
The only thing I found annoying about MG when I had a bolt was the small signature of the (distant) gunner. So indeed with supression it was already hard enough.

But with the zoom and penetration, you see more of the gunner AND you don't even have to hit him, just aim at the torso when he is standing behind a table. Assumed a bolt will penetrate a table, he will go down anyways as your bullet travels through the table and digging itself into it's right heart chamber

 

[Capt.Cool]

I think a big difference between the modern COD system and HOS will be that you DONT see any indicators if you hit.

So just shooting at a wall and hoping to see that "crosshair indicator" to know that you hit someone wont happen...

 

[RedGuardist]

Bullet penetration is the single feature I am waiting maybe most eagerly. It will bring the battlefield alive. No more cartoonish "wild wild west gunfights" meaning two guys firing each other behind tables 10 feet away....

Bullet penetration will show, how dangerous weapons are and that is exactly how it

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I'm all for bullet penetration. I don't like the "position exploiting" that occurs when there is no bullet penetration.

The best cover is to not let the enemy know your position =).

 

[SiC-Disaster]

There are ways to deal with bullet penetration, Wahoo.
As the two posts above me state: "Concealment is not cover", so you need to make sure you are not being seen. After all, what can't be seen can't be fired at, unless they want to give away their own position without having a clear target.
It doesnt mean things become unbalanced, it simply means you have to adjust your playing style and look at cover differently than you did before.
In RO:OST you could hide behind simple wooden objects, things which normally would be counted as concealment and not cover. Yet in ROOST they are all cover.
In RO:HOS it's more natural: you can KNOW that bullets are going to rip through the wood, and if you realise that you have been seen moving behind that crate, it's not safe to stop there. You could go prone instead of a crouching position (and in the case of no deathmessages being on) you could confuse the enemy into thinking they shot you while the bullet actually went over you, or you could keep running, find a hollow in the ground to crawl into, etc...
All it takes is a bit adjustment, i dont see at all how things would become unbalanced. It's something that can be predicted and therefor avoided.
I think you are overexaggerating a bit, you make it sound as if MG's could rip through an entire map without anything stopping the bullet, as if nothing would be in between you and the MG gunner. That's just not true, and only true in the cases of light materials like wood, perhaps a single-brick wall etc.
Concrete is much more likely to stop a bullet, or steel doors etc.
In the end, in the ROOST you could play in a different style, where you could be spotted and duck behind any kind of object to be safe. In ROHOS you can not.It doesnt mean it is less balanced, just that there is more to keep in mind.

 

[Krator]

Bullet penetration is going to change this game drastically... in the right direction. No more pixel hunting, because kar98k or mosin are going to penetrate most of the walls. No more hiding behind a 2cm thick wooden fence or a tree twigs blocking MG42 bullets.
There will be no need to add some unrealistic recoil to SMGs, because now their bullets are going to be stopped even by relatively thin cover, which rifles will penetrate easily. So everything will be balanced in a nice, realistic way. Rifles are going to be much more useful.
And MGs will be more dangerous, just as they should be. But I think that good old RO veterans with pixel hunting skills developed over years will take care of them.

 

[wahoo4]

I'm not saying that it won't be a good thing, I just hope there is a balance of penetrating and non-penetrating materials.

 

[VariousNames]

Bullet penetration should be realistic...

 

[wahoo4]

Humm...one shot gives away your position. Then it's a rain of terror from a MG. lol If they were to hold true to realism of the penetrating power of an MG I don't think much can stop it. A SMG can easily crumble concrete blocks. It's been a while since I've seen any MG footage, but I remember them being very devastating.

There are ways to deal with bullet penetration, Wahoo.
As the two posts above me state: "Concealment is not cover", so you need to make sure you are not being seen. After all, what can't be seen can't be fired at, unless they want to give away their own position without having a clear target.
It doesnt mean things become unbalanced, it simply means you have to adjust your playing style and look at cover differently than you did before.
In RO:OST you could hide behind simple wooden objects, things which normally would be counted as concealment and not cover. Yet in ROOST they are all cover.
In RO:HOS it's more natural: you can KNOW that bullets are going to rip through the wood, and if you realise that you have been seen moving behind that crate, it's not safe to stop there. You could go prone instead of a crouching position (and in the case of no deathmessages being on) you could confuse the enemy into thinking they shot you while the bullet actually went over you, or you could keep running, find a hollow in the ground to crawl into, etc...
All it takes is a bit adjustment, i dont see at all how things would become unbalanced. It's something that can be predicted and therefor avoided.
I think you are overexaggerating a bit, you make it sound as if MG's could rip through an entire map without anything stopping the bullet, as if nothing would be in between you and the MG gunner. That's just not true, and only true in the cases of light materials like wood, perhaps a single-brick wall etc.
Concrete is much more likely to stop a bullet, or steel doors etc.
In the end, in the ROOST you could play in a different style, where you could be spotted and duck behind any kind of object to be safe. In ROHOS you can not.It doesnt mean it is less balanced, just that there is more to keep in mind.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

Humm...one shot gives away your position. Then it's a rain of terror from a MG. lol If they were to hold true to realism of the penetrating power of an MG I don't think much can stop it. A SMG can easily crumble concrete blocks. It's been a while since I've seen any MG footage so, but I remember them being very devastating.

So?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I'm all for bullet penetration to be realistic, but I see what wahoo means by a balance of cover types.

In ROOST, as a mapper, you always had the ability to sorta simulate bullet penetration by turning off bullet collision with static meshes that you thought could/should be penetrated. I know I did it for the one map I made for MN. I don't really know if anyone else did it.

Remember with ROHOS, in addition to the stock maps, we will most likely have a lot of custom maps that can have all types of cover too. Because of that, I'm sure we will have maps that really favor mgs, and others less so.

 

[Grumms]

Humm...one shot gives away your position. Then it's a rain of terror from a MG. lol If they were to hold true to realism of the penetrating power of an MG I don't think much can stop it. A SMG can easily crumble concrete blocks. It's been a while since I've seen any MG footage so, but I remember them being very devastating.

Which is the whole point of an MG. Which is why each team is extremely limited.

It's doing its job. Suppression.

It's a realism game, we need realistic penetration.

 

[wahoo4]

Yes good point.

I think a big difference between the modern COD system and HOS will be that you DONT see any indicators if you hit.

So just shooting at a wall and hoping to see that "crosshair indicator" to know that you hit someone wont happen...

 

[wahoo4]

Yes I agree, it's a pain in RO1. I am looking forward to penetration in that way.

I'm all for bullet penetration. I don't like the "position exploiting" that occurs when there is no bullet penetration.

The best cover is to not let the enemy know your position =).