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LAW is underpowered!

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#41
Sammers said:
That solves nothing.
It lets Demo carry too much firepower; simple as that. Nobody cares about how much the respective weapons weigh in real life. The Killing Floor LAW is fictional too, so you cannot define it's weight.

So there's nothing to solve in the end; the game is well balanced and this model of LAW has been given a realistic weight.
Click to expand...

First off, i just went through a long explanation about the LAW actually having equal firepower to the M32. After the change, it would still weigh much more than the M32. Law 10. M32 7.
Having a few extra blocks isnt a huge deal.

Furthermore, the RL weapon weights were just icing on the cake. Not the point.
 
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#42
Wannas said:
What.

...Okay, maybe on Normal. But on Suicidal, HoE, and sometimes even Hard the Demo will be useless to the team if he focuses on mobs of clots. He's best off saving his shots for Husks, Sirens and FPs. The LAW is also useful against Scrakes for the stun.
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Exactly! LAW must be focused to take out big specimens. Small stuff must be leaved for other perks or maybe other demo with M79/M32. You should always keep in mind, that KF is a TEAM game, and every player is a team member. And each team member has a specific task to do and a specific zed priority list. Your team can't advance above the Normal, if LAW-demo shoots small zeds; commando tries to deal with FP; sharpie is unable to do xbow headshots, cause he must get rid of crawlers near him; support is required to heal, cause medic kitting scrake and zerker is welding the door...
So even if you were able to hold both M79 and LAW, using M79 and switching back to LAW will give zeds time to come close enough to make rocket shot impossible. If you are not planning to use LAW as a primary weapon and just to have fun with it, you can switch to support perk and then you will be able to hold even shotgun next to LAW. But, as I said before, using other perk weapons can't make you pass Normal (or maybe - Hard) difficulty.
 
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#43
greenlemonade said:
First off, i just went through a long explanation about the LAW actually having equal firepower to the M32. After the change, it would still weigh much more than the M32. Law 10. M32 7.
Having a few extra blocks isnt a huge deal.
Click to expand...
A few extra blocks is totally a huge deal. It opens up a vast amount of new LAW combinations, some of which will render a player far too overpowered. What I guess I'm trying to say is; I think the LAW is a million times better than you think it is.

greenlemonade said:
Furthermore, the RL weapon weights were just icing on the cake. Not the point.
Click to expand...
Icing on the wrong cake. The KF LAW is a fictional model and therefor doesn't have a real life weight that you can quote. TWI decide how much it weighs and they have done so.
 
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#44
Sammers said:
A few extra blocks is totally a huge deal. It opens up a vast amount of new LAW combinations, some of which will render a player far too overpowered. What I guess I'm trying to say is; I think the LAW is a million times better than you think it is.


Icing on the wrong cake. The KF LAW is a fictional model and therefor doesn't have a real life weight that you can quote. TWI decide how much it weighs and they have done so.
Click to expand...

Look, you can say that lowering the LAW's weight would make it overpowered, but how about explaining why.
For the 2ND TIME, I've detailed why the LAW and M32 are near equals aside from the LAW's weight.
How about a reason why you think a slightly lighter LAW would be overpowered.

Because Demo could carry a Mac 10 as long as he didnt have pipe bombs?
A Sword? or an M79 (again, no pipes).
What's your reasoning please.


Furthermore, "KF LAW" may have a fictional name but it looks and functions nearly identical to AT4. It's not the wrong icing on the cake that it would also weight nearly the same.

Killing Floor, like Red Orchestra, tends to take a more realistic approach compared to other shooters.
 
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#45
poosh said:
Exactly! LAW must be focused to take out big specimens. Small stuff must be leaved for other perks or maybe other demo with M79/M32. You should always keep in mind, that KF is a TEAM game, and every player is a team member. And each team member has a specific task to do and a specific zed priority list. Your team can't advance above the Normal, if LAW-demo shoots small zeds; commando tries to deal with FP; sharpie is unable to do xbow headshots, cause he must get rid of crawlers near him; support is required to heal, cause medic kitting scrake and zerker is welding the door...
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S**!!! I laughed so hard after reading this! I can't imagine having a team as bad as this one. Oh, geez, best post ever! And the best thing is, you are 100% right. You have to have people who are using their perks how they are designed to be used.
The LAW is not underpowered, I've just never seen it used in the right situation. It is probably the most specialised weapon in the game due to the inablilty to carry much else even as a support. There is nothing wrong with the LAW I don't believe, but there are so infrequent opputunites to leave it to it's full potential.
 
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#46
I'm using the LAW as an alternative way to take out scrakes. One headshot with rocket, and SC loses ~3k hp and stuns. And while he is stunned, other teammates finishes him fast and easy. Best part of this is that scrake's body is so weakened, so commandos doesn't need to aim to the head: just empty whole SCAR or AK47 clip into his body in full-automatic mode. And after rocket shot all around SC is dead - he stands alone, stunned and awaits his death... poor guy :)
LAW weakness in not it's weight, but it's requirement for very specific location. If room is too short, you will unable to shoot. If room too tall, sharpie with xbow is better. On open-air maps (like farm and mountain pass) zed groups spread makes using of LAW ineffective.
The best maps for using LAW is Departed (left room down the street) and Biohazard (at the trader glitch).
 
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#48
But a demo who uses mostly a pistol is just a waste of a slot.

I've used both the M32 and LAW plenty and I strongly feel that they are nearly equal weapons in their usefulness. The only difference is that the LAW weights a LOT more, but doesnt bring anything worth that extra weight to the table.

Im not proposing a LAW damage buff or anything. Just a more realistic, balanced weight.

The proposed slightly reduced weight of 10 blocks wouldn't make demo a monster. Just allow him to do something like this:

LAW + M79 GL
LAW + Katana + Pipebombs
LAW + Hand Cannon
LAW + Mac10
LAW + Pipebombs + Medic Gun
 
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#49
outofrealman said:
And you sure you playing on HoE? 6man?

I AM SURE THAT xbow needs 4 hs to kill a fleshpound (after 3 hs, his head can be removed by 2 9mm shots, but you need to do a **** ton of damage to his body to kill him at this point). And two xbow HEAD SHOT + only one LAW ROCKET NEVER KILL 6-man HoE fleshpound. You need some more shots.
Click to expand...

You must suck at SS. Its one of the reasons it has been over populated. Not only did u argue with me about the ppl who do play SS (correct) that can 3 shot FP (and not just me btw) but you can do a Xbow body shot to bring down the body.. I gave you all the information you need to be a better sharp shooter I cant pull the trigger for you (or click the button) so L2P your perk.
 
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#50
Anubis_FB said:
You must suck at SS. Its one of the reasons it has been over populated. Not only did u argue with me about the ppl who do play SS (correct) that can 3 shot FP (and not just me btw) but you can do a Xbow body shot to bring down the body.. I gave you all the information you need to be a better sharp shooter I cant pull the trigger for you (or click the button) so L2P your perk.
Click to expand...


Then you haven't play sharpshooter.
6man HoE fp NEEDS 4 xbow hs to kill. FOUR FREAKING SHOTS. 3 xbow hs only bring his head down to very very low health. Nearly anything can decap it after that. (may be not 9mm or knife) But 3 shots DO NOT KILL a 6-man HoE fp.

Play the game more.

OR

Go to testmap to test it yourself before you post false statements.

Need someone to provide the test map for you to test?
 
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#51
greenlemonade said:
But a demo who uses mostly a pistol is just a waste of a slot.

I've used both the M32 and LAW plenty and I strongly feel that they are nearly equal weapons in their usefulness. The only difference is that the LAW weights a LOT more, but doesnt bring anything worth that extra weight to the table.

Im not proposing a LAW damage buff or anything. Just a more realistic, balanced weight.

The proposed slightly reduced weight of 10 blocks wouldn't make demo a monster. Just allow him to do something like this:

LAW + M79 GL
LAW + Katana + Pipebombs
LAW + Hand Cannon
LAW + Mac10
LAW + Pipebombs + Medic Gun
Click to expand...

This would be good. And if you really had to, you could remove a few rockets from the law to make up for it.
 
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#52
M32 general weakness is, that with it can't efficiently kill scrakes (run out of ammo very fast). LAW weakness is, that you can't afford to use it on small groups of zeds because of the same problem (lack of ammo). Allowing to carry M79 with LAW will remove it's weakness and make M32 ineffective.

LAW + katana ... :D To allow can kill small zeds in the front-line, and then big zeds comes, you will take out your LAW... and realize that you supposed to run away for dozens of meters to be able to make a shot.
 
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#53
poosh said:
M32 general weakness is, that with it can't efficiently kill scrakes (run out of ammo very fast). LAW weakness is, that you can't afford to use it on small groups of zeds because of the same problem (lack of ammo). Allowing to carry M79 with LAW will remove it's weakness and make M32 ineffective.

LAW + katana ... :D To allow can kill small zeds in the front-line, and then big zeds comes, you will take out your LAW... and realize that you supposed to run away for dozens of meters to be able to make a shot.
Click to expand...

That is why you carry a machete with the LAW, and the LAW has plenty of ammo, and you also have a 9mm. It is useful even on HoE.
 
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#56
I really wish I named this thread "LAW weights too much".
I dont want anyone to misunderstand. The LAW IS useful in certain situations.
But so is the M32. I would argue, equally as useful (though both have different strengths and weaknesses).

That said, the M32 weights 7 allowing for a large selection of secondary weapons.
The LAW weights 13 allowing for your choice of pipebombs or a machete.


I still stand by the proposal of lowering the LAW weight to 11 (2 less).

If people have a problem with a LAW+M79 demo, then I sugest increasing the weight of the M79 from 4 to 5. The M79 is too awesome for 4 blocks anyhow.
This would still allow these loadouts:

LAW + Katana + Pipebombs
LAW + Hand Cannon
LAW + Mac10
LAW + Pipebombs + Medic Gun
 
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