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[Info] Is this a joke?

huge joke.

70 fps one day on high.

10-30 fps slideshow the next.
The guys working 16-hour shifts at Tripwire probably don't find it to be a very funny joke.

The sooner they fix the biggest issues the sooner they can go home on normal schedules.

They're probably just as, if not more frustrated than you and me about the performance problems.
 
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The guys working 16-hour shifts at Tripwire probably don't find it to be a very funny joke.

The sooner they fix the biggest issues the sooner they can go home on normal schedules.

They're probably just as, if not more frustrated than you and me about the performance problems.

im just frustrated mostly cuz i wanna play this amazing game. didn't mean to upset anyone.
 
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This release truly baffled me. At the end of the beta it was running amazing on my computer. I use the same settings in the full release, and the performance drops to 18-26 fps. I know its not my system, so they must have screwed up in the optimization. Id say give it 2 more weeks before passing final judgement. If the game still isnt running right, then I might just have to get a refund:(
 
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I've been a part of PC gaming since the early 90s. Why, in almost 20 years, can we not get past this? Why is it so hard to say "hey guys, this game is obviously still broken, let's delay a little"? Why are we treating this like it's ok?

When I get anything else that's broken, I return it and get my money back. I don't wait for the manufacture to repair it for me. Games that are released unfinished reflect poorly on their developers. Look at the difference of opinion between Valve and Obsidian.

We, as gamers, shouldn't have to put up with this. Throwing your hands up and saying "oh well, that's how it was and always shall be!" is just lazy. Demand better. Complain. Ask for your money back. Developer should know that it's not ok to take our money for broken goods.


...Especially after a public beta! Seriously? The beta didn't tip them off that some things needed work?

It must be hard to be a developer these days since big games (and big money makers) COD/MW series come out every year on the dot. To be competitive you would probably have to deliver often and of high quality which is hard to do with limited budget.

but what would i know, i don't make games, just a thought.
edit: however my experience, other than a few fixes i need to make to get the game going, is that the game runs great looks pretty good on medium settings and the gameplay is exactly what i hoped for! i love the non-instant notification of a kill... that would be awesome if it never came! that's the sort of immersive gamepley i loved about this game... cant wait for some community maps to recreate the epic atmosphere some maps from ro1 created.

thanks for the game... any updates that come along and make things better, excellent.
 
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My only concern (and it's a little frightening to myself) is how they did not catch this bad performance issue before it was released in beta/current form?

Are their computers that different than ours? Or, was it ignored?

If they're like most offices, they have very similar computer specs for all their work computers. It keeps things modular and lets you gut computers that stop working for spare parts that work in all your other units. PC development is very tough in this regard. Consoles have a set hardware, and the specs never change drastically. That's why far fewer console games are buggy ****fests on release, as they know exactly what they're putting that software on.

PC game development is a whole different beast. People cobble together PCs from a huge variety of parts, software, and configurations. It is impossible to test a piece of software on all, or even most of these configurations. Even the big AAA companies like EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc. can't do it, and they have billions to throw at game development. TWI didn't catch the bug before the open beta because the game functioned well on their system specs and those of their Friends and Family testers. It wasn't until they threw it out into the open ocean that the whole thing fell apart, and they've had all of two weeks to try and glue it back together again. It's a tough situation.
 
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In my opinion,

The "Public Beta" felt more like an Alpha. There was just too many significant things wrong, there is no way that they could not have been seen in development.

The Beta towards the end had less issues than the final release (on my system, yours may differ). I paid extra for a few electronic intangible goodies that I do not have. While the performance is slightly better in some areas in final, it needs more work.

I like the game, but I feel like I paid for a Beta RC2 and weapons that were accidentally drop shipped to the wrong country.
 
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This game isn't crap. If they DO get around to fixing the major issues it will be years of fun. That being said... They screwed the pooch in just about every other way. The release was a chaotic mess and waste of time for the paying customers. There are issues that it is just ridiculous to see in released product. They don't seem all that interested in trying to keep us informed or happy now that the release is through the door and it is harder to get a refund.

The question is will any but the most hardened fans have the patience to wait and will anyone have any faith in Tripwire interactive again? As for me anything they release from here on in is going to have to have some pretty amazing innovations to get me to look.. and I sure as hell will not be pre-ordering anything from them again. I'll wait till it's released and I know it isn't broken.
 
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In my opinion,

The "Public Beta" felt more like an Alpha. There was just too many significant things wrong, there is no way that they could not have been seen in development.

The Beta towards the end had less issues than the final release (on my system, yours may differ). I paid extra for a few electronic intangible goodies that I do not have. While the performance is slightly better in some areas in final, it needs more work.

I like the game, but I feel like I paid for a Beta RC2 and weapons that were accidentally drop shipped to the wrong country.

I agree with your post, but the drop shipped weapon comment made my week. Thank You.
 
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In my opinion,

The "Public Beta" felt more like an Alpha. There was just too many significant things wrong, there is no way that they could not have been seen in development.

The Beta towards the end had less issues than the final release (on my system, yours may differ). I paid extra for a few electronic intangible goodies that I do not have. While the performance is slightly better in some areas in final, it needs more work.

I like the game, but I feel like I paid for a Beta RC2 and weapons that were accidentally drop shipped to the wrong country.

I always cringe when people say that the beta was akin to an alpha. I've BUILT alphas before. I've worked with alphas before. That was most DEFINITELY a beta build.

I'm arguing semantics though.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Development takes place on a very small range of hardware. Developing for consoles is easy, as they know exactly what hardware everyone is swinging around. Developing for PCs is nightmarish, as everyone has different hardware. These performance issues could be easily overlooked if nobody in Tripwire's offices or closed beta has SLI cards, or i7 processors, or whatever bit of hardware the game isn't using correctly. It's very likely that the beta build ran just fine on the computers in their offices and in the closed beta, so they released it to the public expecting two weeks of gameplay tweaks and got buried under a mountain of optimization issues and whatnot. They weren't expecting the ****ups.
 
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I typed this whole thing up for another thread only to find the thread locked before I could post. Still very relevant to this conversation, and I don't want to waste 10 minutes of typing.

When you buy something, you expect it to work. Period. No arguments about software and small budget, or about every sloppy release out there (you never hear about good releases, because that's what everyone expect, it's only noted when it doesn't).

From tractors to ballpoint pens, it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to work as presented on the manual,box,etc.
If a thing doesn't work, you return it to the store.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO A WORKING PRODUCT.

I didn't bought a promise to a working game in the coming months, i bought a software and expected it to work. If i was told about the mess the game was on the store page, i wouldn't have bought it. That's where the apology comes in.

Tripwire should recognize the current state of the software, and give real expectations of what you're getting when you buy their game. I'm talking about the average joe. Not the power-user, forum dweller, fanboy or smartass who thinks he knows everything about computers.

Be honest and transparent, don't make empty promises. The damage is done, and it's time to rethink. Take a firm position and stick to it. Just don't underestimate my intelligence as a customer and player.

While you make a good point, and I do agree with most of it, allow me to make a counterpoint.

In our current day and age, with the complexity of the products that the average consumer uses on a daily basis, first generations are often buggy and unreliable. Hence, there is a very specific group of people (first adopters) that take the tentative steps into trying new tech. Most people stick to what they have and what they know works, so snatching the attention of that crowd of first adopters is vital, as you need their word-of-mouth reviews to generate hype. Often, new tech is released incredibly buggy and for a much higher price point that later adopters get. (Comparing this to games, people who pre-order or buy full price games tend to deal with the brunt of the bugs and glitches. By the time the game goes on sale for the late adopters, most everything has been ironed out).

These early adopter heartaches span across every experimental/engineering/tech-based industry from cars to medicine to televisions to bleeding-edge tech. Why don't they just release a finished product? Is it because they want to rob customers? No, it's because they have to start making returns on the product in order to continue the project. Developing new tech is a time sink. R&D is very expensive and very risky. It's challenging to produce something new, and it takes a long time, a lot of talent, and a lot of dosh to do it. When their developers make a genuine breakthrough, they want to cash in on returns as quickly as possible to shore up their losses and continue funding the project. Most companies can't afford to shovel money into a big hole to try and get a piece of tech working just right. So they release it, throw it to the dogs, let people decide whether or not they have an idea worth holding on to. If the early adopters like it despite the inevitable bugs, the project gets greenlighted for later iterations. If they don't, it's usually salvaged for something else to try and make some returns out of it.

It has very little to do with corrupt business practices and everything to do with the difficulty of trying something new. From my experiences as a customer, I make an effort to avoid new tech precisely because I cannot trust it to work right out of the box. It's still in it's fetal stage. I buy third or fourth generation hardware, because usually the majority of the bugs have been ironed out by then and I usually pick up software on sale or after the price drops. It's not because I'm cheap, but because I can't trust the software to deliver a functional and enjoyable experience right out of the box. They need time to hammer things out, but they can't afford to absorb any more losses.

Early adoption is a risky business. It can pay off, or it can be a total waste of consumer time and money. It's up to you as a consumer to determine what products you're willing to gamble on. I'm confident that despite my initial hiccups, TWI will hammer out the bugs and I will enjoy RO2 for years to come. It's far from perfect now, but there's enough potential in this product for me to consider it worth the risk of early adoption.
 
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I always cringe when people say that the beta was akin to an alpha. I've BUILT alphas before. I've worked with alphas before. That was most DEFINITELY a beta build.

I'm arguing semantics though.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Development takes place on a very small range of hardware. Developing for consoles is easy, as they know exactly what hardware everyone is swinging around. Developing for PCs is nightmarish, as everyone has different hardware. These performance issues could be easily overlooked if nobody in Tripwire's offices or closed beta has SLI cards, or i7 processors, or whatever bit of hardware the game isn't using correctly. It's very likely that the beta build ran just fine on the computers in their offices and in the closed beta, so they released it to the public expecting two weeks of gameplay tweaks and got buried under a mountain of optimization issues and whatnot. They weren't expecting the ****ups.


I was an alpha tester for a HL2 mod before...the closed beta was FARRRRRRR from an Alpha.

At least nobody was running around with a banana world model for their gun.
 
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I was an alpha tester for a HL2 mod before...the closed beta was FARRRRRRR from an Alpha.

At least nobody was running around with a banana world model for their gun.

Heh, I remember fighting an intimidating horde of Metrocops in "T" poses with scary looking rifles sticking out of their crotches. They shouted at me in an intimidating 15 year old voice, as they hadn't fed the lines through the vocoder yet and got hung up on every tiny bit of level geometry because the guy who rendered the map forgot to build the nav graph.

Trust me guys, this is -far- from an alpha build.
 
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