Important: Way too accurate aim for every soldier!
- Thread starter ptx
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Are we watching the same video? Full screen it and look at the amount of sway there is.
Sure, it's not going to throw your aim off much for a 50m shot, but once you get out to 100+ meters it's going to make things pretty tough.
And no, it's not the overly exaggerated CoD sway, but it's there, it's enough to be realistic, and it's more than enough to throw off your aim for long shots or concealed targets.
And everyone here is jumping around for more sway. There's your more sway. CoD has a stupid amount of weapon sway for weapons accurate outside of 20m (you can iron sights an SMG for hours without much sway, but you also can't hit anything farther away than 10'). This is what makes the combat so run-and-gunny, nobody can hit a target without being right up next to them. It's already hard to hit a moving target in-game at 100m. Adding more sway is just going to decrease the effective weapon range. Why you would want this is beyond me, as we'll have more people hip-shooting rifles, ignoring gunfire because it's far less lethal, and running at riflemen because they know the sway will protect them unless the shooter is remarkable.
Now, if I feel the suppression effect I hit the dirt, because I know that it was a lucky miss. Weapons are brutally lethal now, and rifles are fearsome precisely because they are accurate.
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If you're able to quick scope that means fundamentally there isn't rifle sway, at least not in the way it should be. And if I remember correctly, if you press shift you hold your breath and get perfect accuracy, and this is only for balance reasons since there are semiautomatic sniper rifles.
Also sniper is the only weapon in the game with sway. Every other gun lacks sway.
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I also love how one minute everyone is complaining that SMGs are too overpowered and need to be nerfed because riflemen are helpless, and then the next day everyone is complaining about how riflemen are too accurate and need more sway to decrease how good they are.
It's a sign that they've hit the balance spot on.
Totally untrue. The quick scope is brought about -because- of weapon sway, as a weapon that is always centered on the screen suddenly starts moving all over the place if you take more than a second in sights. When you scope in, it's perfectly centered, and almost instantly starts moving all over the place. You have to be able to scope in and shoot before the movement kicks in, or else you miss your shot. The reason that other weapons don't have sway is because of the godawful aim-assist that automatically locks onto an enemy's head when you aim down sights.
And no, you can't hold the weapon still for more than a second before the sway gets even -worse- for several seconds.
It is in there for -balance- reasons. Everyone else is running around with automatics that have a spread like a smooth-bore and take 5-6 shots to kill someone, and you have a weapon that can kill someone in one hit. Of course they have to "balance" this by making it sway all over the place like you're drunk.
It's a sign that they've hit the balance spot on.
Totally untrue. The quick scope is brought about -because- of weapon sway, as a weapon that is always centered on the screen suddenly starts moving all over the place if you take more than a second in sights. When you scope in, it's perfectly centered, and almost instantly starts moving all over the place. You have to be able to scope in and shoot before the movement kicks in, or else you miss your shot. The reason that other weapons don't have sway is because of the godawful aim-assist that automatically locks onto an enemy's head when you aim down sights.
And no, you can't hold the weapon still for more than a second before the sway gets even -worse- for several seconds.
It is in there for -balance- reasons. Everyone else is running around with automatics that have a spread like a smooth-bore and take 5-6 shots to kill someone, and you have a weapon that can kill someone in one hit. Of course they have to "balance" this by making it sway all over the place like you're drunk.
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No they aren't find the balance.
Yes and no. Yes i think they partially fixed the sway. Actually if you aim from an unsupported position with the MN, you will quickly feel the sway like in RO: ost. The major difference is the breathing system that allow you to control and make a nice shot. Some will not agree but i find this realist and good.
For the SMG i find them fine. Seriously, if you ever fired one of these weapon try yourself or get some reports. It's exactly like in the game. The problem is not the weapon, it's the distribution of it. When 50% of the team can be armed with SMG it will eventually lead to a serious balance problem between bolts rifles and SMGs. (I really can't imagine how tripwire didn't see this coming).
The case of super-accurate instashots is due to 3 factors:
* The inability to disrupt the enemy aiming.
* The fast aiming/scoping.
* The zoom.
- "The rifle and many weapons are too accurate" (in fact, the shots are) because the suppression system isn't existent or working.
The impacts sounds are sometimes missing, often too low and don't add a stress factor. (look the DH videos, you will understand).
Colouring the screen in gray don't change anything to the gameplay. And the area of effective (sway added) suppression is really small (no more than 20cm as it's like).
- Another factor is the instaswitch/aiming time. (The quick scope is allowed and viable with this instaswitch/aiming time, unfortunately) You can insta-aim+breath take a neat shot on your target then go away.
- The zoom, this feature has been debated to death. But it definitely help to make shots super-accurate.
(It's remind me Insurgency at his start: same gameplay. No firefight, but something like CS: instakill or be killed.)
So the problem is not just the weapons or the sway (don't beat me, lol), who are generally well represented. The problem is what your character can do with a weapon. Insta-aim, don't feel bothered by suppression and see clearly a fly hundred meters away with the zoom.
A combination of these 3 things make you more like a terminator. Cyber-ehanced zoom + Quick computer calculated aiming system and captors who ignore feeble enemy fire...
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Hitting a water melon at 200 yards is not that hard. In fact, your rifle should be capable of 2 inch groups easily at 200 yards. The only thing that would make it hard is natural sway or sway from breathing and the weight of the gun and weather or not ya need glass's. Iv shot thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds in my life at long distance targets..
A man would be a pretty big target.
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Should take twice as long to aim and make a kill at 200m as it does now.
If you think the sway levels are low...wait tell everyone gets there veteran sway reduction bonus.
*awaits Josef Nader to repeat his opinion as fact with yet another wall of text.*
If you think the sway levels are low...wait tell everyone gets there veteran sway reduction bonus.
*awaits Josef Nader to repeat his opinion as fact with yet another wall of text.*
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No need. I'm really done arguing this.
The dude I put on there for scale is probably even smaller than that.
It could be adjusted, sure, it's a matter of how much. It's relative to how far away your target is too. Sway means diddly at 20m, at 75 meters is starts to matter a little, at 125 meter matters a fair amount and at 175m it matters A LOT.
When people are judging it, I don't think they're really factoring in the different amount of distances it really applies to. Consider the image the limit of what I think is really reasonable.
Another poster in another thread consolidated the sway in the video into a nice image for me. Kudos to Nenjin.
It's there, and there's more than enough to make she shooting realistic. If you don't like how easy it is to get kills/get killed, find another game. The vast majority of the playerbase is perfectly content with sway the way is is right now.
This thread is over, any more arguing is pointless. You aren't going to be swayed (*badum tish*) from your opinion, but neither is TWI. Deal with it or move on.
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In Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway they have quite a nice system. If you aim down sight after sprinting, you have increased sway for a couple of seconds. Not sure if you have any sway when just sitting and aiming (haven't played it for quite some time).
It would also be nice if you have some increased sway after shooting (not for too long). That way long range combat becomes much more interesting. You'll have to wait a bit to be able to fire your next shot and you'll think twice before taking a shot because you'll have to wait longer to take another accurate shot.
For long range fights it would quite slow down the pace (which is good imho) and for cqb it doesn't really matter because if there's someone standing right in front of you some sway shouldn't really matter.
It would also be nice if you have some increased sway after shooting (not for too long). That way long range combat becomes much more interesting. You'll have to wait a bit to be able to fire your next shot and you'll think twice before taking a shot because you'll have to wait longer to take another accurate shot.
For long range fights it would quite slow down the pace (which is good imho) and for cqb it doesn't really matter because if there's someone standing right in front of you some sway shouldn't really matter.
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MG's aren't useless. I can pin down a half dozen Germans by simply playing right. No super aim or anything like that, just learning how to use the weapon realistically.
Nobody wants to learn the new system. They just demand it be changed to suit their needs. Go play another game with arcadey sway and suppression effects. Don't screw up this gem of brilliant tactics and intense realism.
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To start: I really hate the term "Arcade-y". It always sounds like an insult aimed at mainstream shooters. Realistically who are you insulting here? CoD fanboys? Halo frat jocks? Who cares? Different people like different games. That's their choice.
On topic: People just don't grasp what a light machine gun really was during the period. They come in expecting to play it like an HMG and they're not. LMGs were much closer to Automatic Rifles. A weapon designed to amplify your firepower, not a static artillery piece designed to deny whole avenues of advance.
If one wants to be good with an LMG in this game than they need to do as everyone else does. Stay low, stay in cover, and stay *mobile*.
On topic: People just don't grasp what a light machine gun really was during the period. They come in expecting to play it like an HMG and they're not. LMGs were much closer to Automatic Rifles. A weapon designed to amplify your firepower, not a static artillery piece designed to deny whole avenues of advance.
If one wants to be good with an LMG in this game than they need to do as everyone else does. Stay low, stay in cover, and stay *mobile*.
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+1
Learn to use the gun right. RO1 had an unrealistic portrayal of LMGs, and it's been greatly improved in RO2.
And I don't mean arcadey as an insult. Arcadey games are wicked fun in their own rights, but not what I came to RO2 for. I'm still madly in love with TF2, which is so far down on the arcade side that they might as well crown it their king. However, I want a change of pace, and RO2 is scratching that itch quite nicely. It's precisely -because- it's nothing like TF2 that I'm enjoying it so much, and it's a unique and enjoyable breath of fresh air in a genre choked with boring old clones of Halo game mechanics with a different skin. This is something legitimately new and unique, and every step the devs take away from that uniqueness is a blow to their finished product.
I just hope they stick to their guns and force all these stubborn old goats to learn something new.
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A lot of it is because WW2 "enthusiasts" are used to hearing apocryphal legends and myths propagated by organizations more vested in entertainment and dramatic flair than actual fact.
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I'm sorta referring to the insane accuracy of everything/ the fact that a machine gunner will be hit as soon as he tries setting up anywhere and firing for a few seconds. I'm moreso referring to the mounted machine guns that appear randomly in the map. As soon as you start firing, someone far away hiding in some window (usually without a scope) aims, breathes (super zoom really ruins it IMHO) and kills you in one shot.
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Oh of course. Avoid HMGs at all costs. They're useless till we can get some bigger maps.
As an LMG, always set up prone. Never frame yourself in a window, because it's an obviously human silhouette.
Silhouette is the most important identifier, especially from long range. That's why the military has tons and tons of vehicle identification charts that are based solely on silhouettes. If you're in a window, it's an obviously human silhouette, and you can be shot easily. Stay low, stay prone, -always- set up from prone, stay concealed. Make yourself look like part of the scenery, and folks will look right at you without shooting. It's an instinctive thing. We're looking for human shapes and movement. If we see it, we kill it. Stay still and make yourself look as in-human as possible.
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It depends. When your men start dying at the windows then you should avoid their fate, because the enemy is set up and watching for anyone trying to lean out. When riflemen and/or machine guners are suppressing the area, then you can get heavy mounted machine gun and do some good. It is not as useless as many people think it is. I've good results with heavy mounted machine guns often. Yesterday was one of such days.Josef Nader said:
Isn't that zoom putting our perspective at 1:1? Or am I missing something?Saturnman said:
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