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Firebug and grenade launchers...

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
I am not sure if this has been discussed here before, but if it has, my apologies.

Since the last updates, I have noticed the Firebug really doesn't get any new toys to play with, where there has been a new perk and a lot of new weapons for other classes.

Firebug gets incendiary hand grenades at lvl 3, which set the zeds on fire.
That is just great, but how about some new toys? I suggest the Firebug would get incendiary grenades for the M79 and M32. His Pipe Bombs could set specimens on fire, too.

Of course, for a Firebug to do this, he would have to sell his Flamethrower and buy a grenade launcher which is a bit pricey and beyond his financial capabilities for him, so how about giving him a small discount for them?

This would add some variety for the class without making too radical changes to the way classes work. At least Firebug would not obstruct everyone's view with his Flamethrower anymore while still setting stuff on fire over great distances. ;)
 

avp2501

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
977
51
0
Lost in the land of Magic
It's true that the pyro needs some attention but I don't think this is the solution.

Why have a pipebomb that sets them on fire, there's nothing left once the bombs gone off.

and the Nade launchers do so much dammage i think it would be unfair to also add fire dammage to this.

Although I do think that as you level up the pyro weapons become lighter allowing him to carry more tools. for more I only use sword and flamethrower because thats pretty much all he can carry.
 

HaTeMe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
2,688
550
0
Behind You!
Uhm no, I dont like the idea of mixing up the weapons beetween perks. Grenade launchers belong to demo. Id rather see that flaregun or a bigger flamer, which have been talked about before.

Seems like many people want the current weapons to have secondary effects depending on the perk currently at use. Why dont they make a weapon like that, then? Maybe some kind of weak smg which fires incendary bullets with firebug, tiny explosive bullets with demo (not sure whats the use, maybe they blow up heads more easilly o_O..?), penetrating ammunation for support, poison ammunation for medic, a blade/sting on the weapon for berserker to use as secondary attack, and maybe some kind of damage/rate boost for commando.
 

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
Uhm no, I dont like the idea of mixing up the weapons beetween perks. Grenade launchers belong to demo. Id rather see that flaregun or a bigger flamer, which have been talked about before.
Well, I see you would like more toys, but personally I think the flamethrower is the top weapon for the Firebug class at the moment. Sure, a new weapon would be nice, but I am not too keen to make the weapons list even bigger as it is.
Seems like many people want the current weapons to have secondary effects depending on the perk currently at use.
I think the perk bonuses do already do some of that. Normal hand grenades for Firebug already have a fire explosion effect lvl 3 onwards which doesn't deal any normal damage but sets the specimens on fire.

Why dont they make a weapon like that, then?
Because I think that would make very little sense as such, that sounds a bit over the top.
Maybe some kind of weak smg which fires incendary bullets with firebug
And how exactly would this make Firebug more powerful?
tiny explosive bullets with demo (not sure whats the use, maybe they blow up heads more easilly o_O..?)
Yet another redundant weapon as Demolitions Perk already has plenty of better toys to play with.
penetrating ammunation for support,
If you checked the perk bonuses for the Support, they already have 90% bonus to shotgun pellet penetration (lvl5), which would render this pointless.
poison ammunation for medic,
Soo... Medic already has a healing dart, I see your point but that would just encourage kiting zeds around the map and make this a kitefest again.
a blade/sting on the weapon for berserker to use as secondary attack,
Katana anyone? It is pretty cheap for a Zerker too.
and maybe some kind of damage/rate boost for commando.
Uhm... doesn't the Commando already have AK47 and SCAR which are more than enough to handle almost any situation?

A lot of interesting ideas, all in all, but this would just add more and more weapons to the already massive list.
 

Soanos

Member
Jul 2, 2009
569
8
18
Finland
It's true that the pyro needs some attention but I don't think this is the solution.
Do you have better suggestions then?

Why have a pipebomb that sets them on fire, there's nothing left once the bombs gone off.
If you had not already guessed, it would only deal fire damage, not explosive damage.
and the Nade launchers do so much dammage i think it would be unfair to also add fire dammage to this.
Who said anything about adding? The incendiary grenades would not do much explosive damage but set a group of zeds caught in the blast radius on fire. A bit like Husk's fireball attack.
Although I do think that as you level up the pyro weapons become lighter allowing him to carry more tools. for more I only use sword and flamethrower because thats pretty much all he can carry.
It is true they can't carry much at the moment, but reducing their weapon weight would most likely glitch something. Not sure if this is possible but I'd much rather be able to sell my flamer and get incendiary grenade launcher because that doesn't block the view of my fellow team members as much.
 

Yu_Fucndie

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2009
91
5
0
USA
Well, if you are wanting to just make fire with no explosive damage, why not give molitovs to FB so they don't use another perks weapon? Also, possibly increase the carrying capacity of the FB rather than lower the weight of the Flamethrower because the weight of it seems about right to me. As it is now, you get higher capacity canisters as you level, which does help, but I think increasing the FBs carrying capacity could be an improvement to gameplay.
 

Madhate969

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2009
215
0
0
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
or a pressurize napalm container, when thrown (or shot) it goes a short distance and then crack open and sprays fire (like a soda that has been shaken up) and it catches zeds and walls on fire for a short time
 

avp2501

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
977
51
0
Lost in the land of Magic
Ok heres the thing. Each class needs to be different in their own way, pyro uses different tactics to everyone else and so should only have weapons that make him play differently to everyone else.

So if you give him incinderary ammo then he ends up playing just like a commando or support etc. As for the grenade launchers it's just the same as throwing your lvl3 nades, just that they go a little further.

The flamethrower is a perfect Tier 2 weapon and can easily mopup all the zombies except for the husk and the bigger units - fp / scrake. So he needs either a tier 3 weapon that can deal with them or a new style of gameplay.

The only thing I can think of thats bigger than a flamethrower is a napalm air strike and I think that would be just a little bit over the top.

So why not opt for a new style of gameplay for him. Maybe he could also be a trap expert, so when it comes to the big units he can put down a beartrap and trap the sucker. Of course this does very little dammage to the fp but it does stop him, allowing the pyro to take out the fp in other ways.

He should also get discount on the axe + melee bonuses for using the axe.

If you wanted too you could even go as far as to having an altered version of the Husks Fire thrower. Primary attack: Fireball, Secondary attack: Ice beam/ball/cloud/shards (flak cannon) whichever suited.

As for being able to carry extra weapons, I don't like the idea of increasing his capacity since then you could have a pyro running around with 3 guns (bullpup/ak/shotgun). I'd rather the flamethrower just get lighter as he goes up the ranks so he can carry AN additional weapon.
 

HaTeMe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
2,688
550
0
Behind You!
Oh wow, what a jerk. That was just an example how it COULD be, but of course its up to the developers and the rest of the community to decide which bonuses each perk gets IF they were about to make such weapon. That was basically what YOU asked for, a weapon which changes its functions according to the perk, so dont shove the blame on me. Jesus..

I agree that you dont need another better flamer because the current one is already very good if the problem with ammunition isnt counted, but firebug still needs a new secondary weapon so he would actually have a chance on Suicidal difficulties. Because atm, he will run out of ammo before he reaches midwave which isnt good. Sure you can buy eg. katana as a backup but all other perks have multiple weapon choices so why shouldnt firebug have?
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,401
376
0
33
Belgium
Just give the pyro a laserweapon that sets specimen on fire. Horzine is an evil company, surely they didn't experiment just with cloning technology, the husk is proof, he has some weird prototype weapon. Also, lasers are cool.
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,401
376
0
33
Belgium
yea but the flamethrower in the game was a weapon of horzine I think, why not giving the pyro another weapon made by horzine. I don't know how we could help the pyro otherwise, weaponwise.
 

nath2009uk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 25, 2009
1,378
174
0
England, UK
Why should flamers be able to take care of fleshpounds?

Supports aren't all that great at taking down groups of zeds, since the HS is a 2 shot DB shotgun with low accuracy and limited ammo, and the shotgun has a somewhat slow rate of fire without a huge amount of ammo, and the AA12 + ammo costs a crapload.

So, the flamer takes care of the easier ones while the Support comes in with the firepower.

Shouldn't the perks be balanced so one is better at something while they need someone else to do something else
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,401
376
0
33
Belgium
commando is better at taking out groups imo. As a commando, I can take out groups of specimen much further away than pyro and support. And when slo mo kicks in, I can one shot kill 6-7 specimen sometimes.
 

nath2009uk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 25, 2009
1,378
174
0
England, UK
Yeah I was comparing the two.

A commando or pyro shouldn't be there soloing Fleshpounds, that's the supports job, what he does best.

You wouldn't want a programmer building your house and a builder programming Kf would you?
 

DocDave

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 12, 2009
329
7
0
Original post is a good idea, one I've made before here, which is also listed in this compilation post.

Regarding "upgraded" 'nade launchers, it's my understanding that Firebug grenades ("molotovs" if you like) do not do more damage from the initial explosion, only the damage type changes to "fire." Then they do burning damage on top, which as far as I can tell is a fraction of the DPS a main weapon puts out.

In other words, a Firebug would not get more damaging grenade launchers, but they would get launchers they could use up close. They'd suck at damage compared to demos, but get the advantage they can splooge napalm all over stuff at close range. In other words, this would change gameplay with the launchers, for Firebugs at least, and that's who this change targets.

Lastly, I could agree that the flamethrower should be the primary weapon. This is not really a fix in that case, since the FT is sub-par atm, and the M79 would only be a side-arm. It could be part of a fix, in any case it would offer more options and increase variety for FBs. An "alternative" loadout for Firebug, with the M32 as a main weapon could be interesting, but I'm not sold on that one.
 
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