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Feedback and Thoughts on Maps

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
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38
USA
I will be visiting each of the three maps we discussed on Skype to further polish and improve them for the Alpha. I will also post all of them here in their most recent brewed and unbrewed forms. As we begin to have the test sessions / events, I may not be able to attend all of them so any and all feedback or experiences would be great to see here.

Since each of these three maps has conveniently received a new update all within the last 6 weeks or so, I feel like they are getting closer to a level of quality we are looking for for the Alpha. I will add here what I think each map still needs and what I would like to have in the Alpha release.

Known Issues for ALL three maps:


  1. There are no distinctions in the gameplay for different populations of servers (I am not sure how important this is really). Many Customs and I believe all of the Vanilla maps have different Objectives and spawn progression for the map depending on how many people are playing. All of my maps are the same across the board.
  2. Opposing Team/Classic Roles: this becomes an issue with some mutators along with Campaign Mode. I found recently that some of my maps weren't populating the "Opposing Role" and "Classic Mode" fields properly in the World Info which was caused the roles to revert to Japanese Axis weapons. I also found that since I made a map for the Aufmarsch mod, my Opposing team roles are now set to be the roles found in this mod. This will take a but of time, but should be able to be fixed by hand in the World info, although I do not believe that our mod supports Classic Roles?
  3. The use of Free Models from Online Sources: I have downloaded and used several "free" models from TurboSquid, CGTrader, and others on a few maps. I will get together an exact list for these three. I am not sure how we want to proceed with these in the Alpha release as I only used models that were free for non profit or whatever. If its easier, I can remove the models and use the new ones provided by the Contact Nestor has.


Omaha Beach (Currently Beta 2)

The beach is still difficult for allies, but I am not aware of a large server play test since B2 was released. On lower population servers the map seems to be easier for Allies as the Axis bots don't really shoot anyone on the beach. Known issues:

  • Spawn Protection still has some "holes" in it where players from both sides can progress beyond a resonable distance from the active cap(s)
  • Details on the far left (Allies point of View) side of the farm, village are a bit bare.
  • Would like to replace several other decorative (if not all) houses with fully enterable house models made by lallup. There are 3 different house models you can see all of them if you fly to the top left corner of the map beyond the treeline in the SDK.
  • Add additional covernodes
  • Matinee Boat spawns possibly replaced with drivable boats that have usable MGs mounted on them. This would require coding to the mod itself and would help greatly with Allies attacking beach, although could significantly swing the balance.
  • Add Initial German Spawn near the far right bunker (Allies point of View) that rarely gets used as no one ever runs up to it.
  • Replace some of the stock RO2 models with new ones created this month.
  • Find a better way to handle bots and the beach objectives. Axis bots try to run down to it, although it is a spawn protected zone and dont really defend it from the cliffs (I know of no other RO2 map that tries this either.)
  • Add the Objective Borders to the overhead map


Hill 400 (Currently Beta 3)
The biggest gameplay issue with this map is the bunkers. The bots do not reliably attack or defend them. I have tried numerous gimmicks with rally nodes, path blocking volumes, and making the entrances large and inviting for bots but sometimes they go inside and sometimes they dont.

  • If I am able to get some new environmental models for this map, Id like to vary the rocks, fallen trees, and bushes a bit. The two tree models in the map are the original Arad trees by Wolverine (which although are in the vanilla game now, he gave full permission for their use) and custom pines made by Postamenos.
  • I have heard that some feel the underground bunkers are too narrow in some spots so this is something that might be adjusted if others feel the same.
  • Add more detail, firing ports to the underground bunkers
    (similar to Tula Outskirts)
  • I have also debated moving the Allies initial spawn back in front of the Village and making the Village the initial Objective. This wouldn't change the map too much, but would make it more similar to the DH version that many are accustomed to.
  • With this being the smallest of all the maps and receiving a healthy update last month, I feel like it is the most polished we have of the three.

Port Brest (Currently Beta 5)
This map was updated just a few days ago and has not been tested at all with any significant population. It received a large amount of environmental updates along with modifications to the layout and flow for balance and variability in attacking the cap zones.

  • Needs proper "No Artillery" zones checked and set up.
  • With the Urban setting, this map could benefit more than the other 2 from new models in the environment.
  • I have modified two of the House models provided by AMG to allow players to enter. I wrapped these models around BSP buildings to enter, but think that the map would be even more improved with access to the second floor of these buildings as well.
  • Need some populated server feedback for balance testing.
 
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nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
24
38
USA
Models imported off Turbosquid:
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/free-linen-cabinet-3d-model/593665

This model is currently used on Omaha and Brest
This model is listed as "Royalty Free"
------

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/644916

This model is only used on Omaha
This model is listed as "Royalty Free"
------

http://www.sharecg.com/v/75025/browse/5/3D-Model/Gravestone-3

http://www.sharecg.com/v/74273/browse/5/3D-Model/Cross-Gravestone

These are both on Omaha and are both by the same author, with "Unrestricted Use"
-------
I guess I was worried that there were more models than this, I know other maps have some but we can worry about those later.

I have also linked all UNCooked and Cooked maps below

Hill400
UnCooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/UncookedMaster/WF-Hill400B3.roe
Cooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/Hill400/WF-Hill400B3.roe


Omaha

UnCooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/UncookedMaster/WF-OmahaBeachB2.roe
Cooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/Omaha/WF-OmahaBeachB2.roe


PortBrest

UnCooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/UncookedMaster/WF-PortBrestB5.roe
Cooked:https://s3.amazonaws.com/redorchestra2/Port_Brest/WF-PortBrestB5.roe
 

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
24
38
USA
After talking with Nestor yesterday, it occurred to me that many of the stock props from RO2 and even RS could be simply re-textured to give a "new" look that would not necessarily need to be a Western Front asset, but it would break up the same old appearance of the stock barrels, boxes, crates, rocks and so forth. I can export any current textures in the game with umodel if anyone would be will to do this.
 

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
24
38
USA
Steam Release Map Feedback, Ideas and Blancing


Port Brest:

This map is the top priority IMO
  • Push the Allies Spawn Protection all the way to their edge of the A Cap zone
  • Allies No Art Zones addressed
  • Shift A cap towards Allies side of River
  • Reduce A cap time slightly
  • Shift Destroyable panel of the Bridge on A more towards Allies side
  • Add solid concrete walls near and around A Building that run parallel with river
  • Add destrucitble wooden fences along road near river
  • Add more destroyed vehicles, mainly PZ IV's and SdfKZ for cover
  • Vary the terrain relief a bit more with small hills and dips
  • Possibly add a destroyed rubble structure on the flanks of River
  • Beef up tickets for both teams
  • Might add a couple minutes to timer too



Oosterbeek:

  • Increase tickets for both sides
  • Slightly lower cap time for B objective
  • After A objective is capped, the Axis spawn shifts to be closer to B
  • Move Allies Spawn for B Cap slightly further back, as its currently about 90 meters
  • Add a little bit more cover on the B and C approaches



Omaha:

  • Address Spawn Bug on Allies beach (Not sure of cause yet)
  • Id really like to move a spawn point up once A/B are capped as the huge sprint across the beach can get monotonous, possibly in a deep crater or recess to the flanks.
  • Add a little more relief to the beach with hills and dips
  • Maybe toss in a log or wooden beam here and there for cover
  • Some have requested more ammo crates on the middle of the beach
  • Drop down cap time for Barracks slightly
  • Another idea mentioned was a Iwo Jima style smoke barrage, which could be used if C is not capped in a certain time frame
 
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Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
2,367
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Dunno about moving spawns up on omaha. The only people that can't spawn up are squad leaders and the team leader. Everyone else spawns on SL which puts them some way up the beach.

Church in J possibly remove the ladder to the balcony. As that makes it way to easy for the germans to get to the lobby without getting shot at.
 
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Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,739
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Watching server chatter as an admin - US seem to get stuck on the (Omaha) beach often (you can't count on good squad leaders in game sadly). I have seen German players call in their own team chat to let them have the beach so they can fight int he city which they find more fun.

This is just anecdotal from watching chat as admin. On any servers you guys control the game should print out some gameplay stats to the log about who won, what objective they got to and how many reinforcements/time was left that can probably provide some insight into map changes.
 

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
24
38
USA
Watching server chatter as an admin - US seem to get stuck on the (Omaha) beach often (you can't count on good squad leaders in game sadly). I have seen German players call in their own team chat to let them have the beach so they can fight int he city which they find more fun.

This is just anecdotal from watching chat as admin. On any servers you guys control the game should print out some gameplay stats to the log about who won, what objective they got to and how many reinforcements/time was left that can probably provide some insight into map changes.
OK Very good info sir, thank you. :)
 

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
24
38
USA
Changelog 04/01/2016

General:
  • Reduced Victory Music volume
  • Balanced Maps
  • Redid all Spawn Protection/No Artillery Volumes for all 3 maps
  • Added newer logo to all Overhead Maps
  • Removed Looping Victory Music (only plays once now)

Bug Fixes
  • American lines in British voices Muted
  • SMi44 mine 3rd person model fixed
  • SMi44 mine now has a counter of mines placed
  • SMi44 mine kill icon resized to fit space
  • SMi44 mine HUD fixes
  • German Uniforms appear correctly when Character Detail is set to low
  • Japanese "spiderman" gear fix on that occurred with German classes on a particular level. NOT FIXED
  • Enfield autobolting fix
  • Removed more Japanese referenced lines from American voices.

Oosterbeek
  • Increased Allies ticket by 100 to 600
  • Increased Axis Tickets by 50 to 650
  • Shifted E cap slightly South (towards defenders)
  • Fixed interior lighting in D Cap Building
  • Reduced Capture time of B Objective from 22 to 20 secs
  • Added a second Axis spawn closer to B that activates once A is capped (If B is capped first then it never enables)
  • Added more cover to B approach
  • Shifted B Objective zone slightly North(towards attackers)
  • Enhanced Spawn Protection to prevent getting too far past the caps for both teams
  • Staggered the overhead C-47s flight as they were synched together
  • Fixed mantling into windows of F cap
  • Increased F capture time by 2 secs
  • Reduced G capture time by 2 secs
  • Added 3 destructible windows to F building
  • Moved the second floor resupply in Hotel to the outside near basement door
  • Fixed a dead end fenced area that led to no where

Port Brest
  • Added 200 Tickets to both sides
  • Allies now have 750
  • Axis now have 600
  • Fixed missing collision on sidewalks
  • Added 10 more Rifleman Roles to each team
  • Added Path Blocking volume where bots had been getting "stuck"
  • Completely reworked the Spawn locations for Allies on A and B caps.
  • Addressed the Spawn Protection and No Arty areas on A/B caps for Allies
  • Added several Sheds in A/B as cover for Attackers
  • Increased Lockdown Times
  • Marked several Destroyable Fences that open alternate routes with a red painted X
  • Satchel Objective Objects now glow when player is armed with a Satchel
  • Shifted A Cap zone towards Attackers
  • Reduced A, B, and D Capture times by 2 secs
  • Increased time to 30 minutes
  • Blocked 3 windows in last objective that could see into Axis spawn
  • Added Cover on approach to Objective A, Fences and vehicles along River
  • Dirt Mounds in center of River are now higher and provide more cover
  • Fences surrounding Building near Objective A are no longer destructible
  • Adjusted Window Frames in Objective G (Barracks)

Omaha Beach
  • Increased Tickets for Both sides
  • Allies have 975
  • Axis have 700
  • Increased time by 4 mins to 41 minutes
  • Replaced "Non-Destroyable" Wire Fences with destroyable versions
  • Removed some collision from several bushes
  • Added 2 additional Ammo Resupplies on Beach for Allies
  • Added more obstacles / cover to the beach
  • Modified Terrain relief on beach to give more cover to Allies
  • Added Foliage in some areas to obscure view of Defenders
  • Fixed bugged far right Spawn on beach
  • Removed Ladder inside Church
  • Adjusted Lock Down Times
  • Reduced Cap time of C
  • Adjusted Spawn Protection to keep players from getting too far beyond the caps

Carentan
  • Only 2 Objectives enabled at any given time
  • Capping A and B enables C and disables A
  • If Axis Retake B, then C disables and A re-opens
  • Addressed the frequent Overtimes
  • Reduced rifleman roles
  • Increased reinforcements for Allies
  • Added more props and details
 
Last edited:

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
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Removed

Japanese "spiderman" gear fix on that occurred with German classes on a particular level.

from the Chnagelog
 

Lemonater47

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2014
2,367
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Some map fixes needed.

Some map fixes needed.

Carentan


  • Initial German spawn needs to not be on the street. Needs to be in the cafe itself and adjacent buildings on that side of the road with extras spawning in the courtyard behind, spilling onto the road between A and B if necessary. Not out on the street in front. This change may mean the allies can get a foothold somewhere on the map more often.

  • More ways for the allies to attack the buildings on the allied side of the road would be good as well.
  • Chain link fence by the chickens is bulletproof.
  • Lighting, Still dark in many places. Lighting will mean more people can actually see some corridors and stairways that are otherwise hidden.
  • 2 places where players can get stuck. Players can fall down under the stairs that lead to C from B that go along that gangway thing. A second place where players can fall is outside of B where there's a stack of wooden pellets players can climb and fall down the back of.
  • Interiors need things in them.
  • Germans currently have 9 assaults with 4 elite riflemen. Should be cut down to 6 assaults and 2 elite riflemen.

  • Roles should be more evenly spread through the squad leaders on both teams. This mean squad leaders have larger squads without a large dependence on SL1.
  • Cover and mantle nodes. Would probably make it easier to assault A with these. As many windows you can't climb through currently.

Port du Brest.



  • D objective is extremely hard. Would advise completely removing spawn 1 from the Germans.
  • The white house on the right side of the road could be opened up. Providing a place where Americans can lay down fire if the white tower on the left is still taken by Germans.
  • The Germans tend to not even go to D at all to defend it.
  • The Factory building far right could also stand to be opened which means if the Germans are defending right the Americans have another option.
  • A 3rd engineer slot for the Americans would be nice to have to open up side roads easier.

Oosterbeek


  • Defenders have a hard time reinforcing D due to a ridge they have go over. Putting them in full view of any attackers for an extended period of time. Some visual cover or some dips in the ridge may make it easier to reinforce without losing tickets hand over fist.
  • The E objective is tricky to balance due to many players ordering others to fall back and ditch E entirely.
  • E sorta suffers the same issue as D. But I think extending the E objective now back towards the defenders would be good. When a team is trying to defend E you often see them all behind the E cap zone. Because its a logical place to defend from with trenches and everything. It should be part of the cap zone.
  • Spawn 2 for defenders at E should also be moved right. Currently both spawns are right next to each other. Meaning they aren't spread out and are very susceptible to artillery.
 
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