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Final Map Black Day in July

Moz ->

Could you make some second version of Black Day July dedicated for Armored Beasts by reducing Tigers??? I know that in this battle they had many Tigers but this is only a game, teams must have almost the same chances but now isn't balanced beacuse now with AB even 1 Tiger can destroy 10-20 tanks especially in BDJ where germans are attacking together with other tanks. And if it was realistic, russians would have a lot more tanks than they have, but it never will be so many players to capture for example 50 russian tanks and its needed server with 50 players. This is a good tank map but with AB it is not balanced beacuse axis have in first respawn 1 Tiger, in second respawn 2 Tigers, and in third respawn 1 Tiger so total is 4 but in each respawn Tigers can all the time appear again, after a lost of tiger another one will appear on respawn. Also map is more difficult than Orel for allies side, Orel has some hides at heights and there are the most zones to capture at heights so you can at the same time defend the capture area and hide behind for example buildings but in BDJ is inversely, there is plain terrain near the capture points. And in BDJ if you place the tiger away from trees you have than all area controlled beaucse you can stand near the mine fields so nobody will come to you from behind.
 
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Well...
Hello Everyone it's my first post out here :)
And I want to support this what Keystone wrote here; a decreasing of some types of tanks and repleacing them with some matching classes to the opposite force would make a game more playable and less frustrating. It could stop complaining on AB such as I had seen (on game chat) that "they" altered some penetration values of shells/armours too much (modifications are done in true "historical spirit";)) and would stop some "impatient" players to leave AB servers just after one "death" :)
 
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Well...
Hello Everyone it's my first post out here :)
And I want to support this what Keystone wrote here; a decreasing of some types of tanks and repleacing them with some matching classes to the opposite force would make a game more playable and less frustrating. It could stop complaining on AB such as I had seen (on game chat) that "they" altered some penetration values of shells/armours too much (modifications are done in true "historical spirit";)) and would stop some "impatient" players to leave AB servers just after one "death" :)

Far too many people are under the impression that AB Mut 2.065 does something special for only the German tanks... nothing could be farther from the truth. AB attempts enhance all tanks and their specifications to be as correct sa humanly possible. Not just the Germans.

Truth is, BOTH the TIGERS and the PANTHERS were present in high numbers at KURSK. So much for historical accuracy. Now rationally speaking, you cannot have it both ways... keep removing from the Germans and the map becomes a comedy.

On the other hand, you can increase the tanks for the Russians which would be more accurate than all this "oh, take that away, take this away.." that is all nonsense. It solves nothing. Remember, once its gone - its gone. You will destroy any semblences of playabilty. We are about to embark upon larger player numbers per server. By decreasing the Tanks, you are creating a perfect recipe for chaos.

A far better solution would be to allow Server Admins the options (in an .ini file) to make these requested changes on a server by server basis. I can see where we will be hanging on to older versions of the maps if this "removal hysteria" gets any worse.
 
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er, um, not quite Mikers.

IIRC, Moz has always said this map is simulating the battle of Prochorovka, between Rotmistrov's 5th Guards Army and 1SS LSAH on the 12th of July 1943,

There were no Panthers at Prochorovka. None at all. :)

Near that front, if not in the actual battle, were the following:

1SS LSAH: 56 operational tanks (only 4 tigers).
2SS Das Reich: 61 operational tanks (incl. 8 captured T-34/76s)

These German tanks, aside from the Tigers mentioned, would be PzIIIs and PzIVs.

THATS IT. That is the totality of operational German armor on the day of the famous Prochorovka battle. In that sector, and the initial attacker of the day, was Rotmistrov's 5th Guards Tank Army (after stopping the initial rush of the first wave, the germans attacked but fought to a standstill as night fell and the thunderous rain & thunderstorm broke over the field).

the 5th GTA had roughly 850 tanks. 500 or so were T-34/76s. The balance were T70s and lend-lease Churchill tanks. When Rotmistrov attacked, the 1st wave was roughly 400 tanks.

Thus, combinations of the above would be the correct tanks on the field of battle for that day.
 
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er, um, not quite Mikers.

IIRC, Moz has always said this map is simulating the battle of Prochorovka, between Rotmistrov's 5th Guards Army and 1SS LSAH on the 12th of July 1943,

There were no Panthers at Prochorovka. None at all. :)

Near that front, if not in the actual battle, were the following:

1SS LSAH: 56 operational tanks (only 4 tigers).
2SS Das Reich: 61 operational tanks (incl. 8 captured T-34/76s)

These German tanks, aside from the Tigers mentioned, would be PzIIIs and PzIVs.

THATS IT. That is the totality of operational German armor on the day of the famous Prochorovka battle. In that sector, and the initial attacker of the day, was Rotmistrov's 5th Guards Tank Army (after stopping the initial rush of the first wave, the germans attacked but fought to a standstill as night fell and the thunderous rain & thunderstorm broke over the field).

the 5th GTA had roughly 850 tanks. 500 or so were T-34/76s. The balance were T70s and lend-lease Churchill tanks. When Rotmistrov attacked, the 1st wave was roughly 400 tanks.

Thus, combinations of the above would be the correct tanks on the field of battle for that day.

Come on Heinz, large type and white letters don't make something the accurate end of all accounts. Prokhorovka was part of the big picture called Kursk. While the Panthers, (those that were operational), might not have been in the vicinity of Prokhorovka, they certainly were in the battle area of Kursk.

The Battle of Kursk, also known as Operation Zitadelle (Operation Citadel in English) by the German Army, was a significant battle on the Eastern Front of World War II. It remains the largest armored engagement of all time, and included the most costly single day of aerial warfare in history. Though the Germans planned and initiated an offensive strike, the Soviet defense managed to frustrate their ambitions and launch a successful counter-offensive and freed Oryol (August 5), Belgorod (August 5) and Kharkov (August 23), the first such success during summer since 1941.

Preliminary Actions for Operation Zitadelle

It took four months before the Germans felt ready, by which time they had collected 200 of the new Panther tanks (only 40 available at the beginning of the battle due to technical problems with the new type), 90 Elefant Panzerj
 
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Damn it this is only a game you won't see any IL2, tank hunters, AT guns etc. If you played some 10 rounds on Black Day July in full server you would change your opinion. The thruth is that german on this map have too many tigers and its far more difficult to destroy it than on Orel beauce terrain is too plain to take by surprise the tiger. And also almost always Tiger is covered on this map by other tanks. And even if it was realistic russians tanks also should be much more.
 
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Damn it this is only a game you won't see any IL2, tank hunters, AT guns etc. If you played some 10 rounds on Black Day July in full server you would change your opinion. The thruth is that german on this map have too many tigers and its far more difficult to destroy it than on Orel beauce terrain is too plain to take by surprise the tiger. And also almost always Tiger is covered on this map by other tanks. And even if it was realistic russians tanks also should be much more.

Whatever........... :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
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Mikers, I was only pointing out that the battle that Moz was re-creating was Prochorovka, not the other parts of Kursk. That the tanks listed above were the only ones available at that battle, that's all.

Also, I took the time to dig up an old post here and it had some wierd formatting, I just cut & pasted. so, no wierd white, or wierd size was intended. I was also doing posting in another (similar) thread re historical tank load outs. my meanings may have been confusing.

Lastly, I was not trying to come down on you at all. I respect your fantastic efforts here in the RO:O community, especially running great severs. :)
 
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Damn it this is only a game you won't see any IL2, tank hunters, AT guns etc. If you played some 10 rounds on Black Day July in full server you would change your opinion. The thruth is that german on this map have too many tigers and its far more difficult to destroy it than on Orel beauce terrain is too plain to take by surprise the tiger. And also almost always Tiger is covered on this map by other tanks. And even if it was realistic russians tanks also should be much more.

This ^

Also, Mike nomad you are incorrect in your assumptions.

Anyway, sorry for digging this up but I have to correct it.

The order of battle Heinz posted is the one I based the layouts off of and was taken from Wilsonam.

The only reason why I haven't gone back to change the layout to reduce the tiger numbers is because it's an official map now, and I have to work within the limits of the official release cycle. Not to mention I have been away from RO for many many months.
 
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"All the RO Servers are dwindling and those that remain are idle/empty 98% of the time. Mainly because of the human waste like yourself that smart off at people who try to use them. The great cliques have finally come full circle. Now, they'll begin to self destruct as we can see from the above.

Evilwo0t, you were thrown out of here on your butt once before for being a sarcastic ASSHAT. This time you will join your ASSHAT butt buddy EvilHobo in the Banned group.

The moment I saw that this goof had registered, I knew we were in for an ignorant, sarcastic, go nowhere missive.

I am so pleased that Evilwo0t made perfectly clear exactly what that "movie" was depicting. Better yet, its even more satisfying that HE said it - not us. Decent, respectful people wouldn't subject the RO community to such trash and make feeble attempts at calling it humor. Its filth no matter what the goofs say.

I find it both disturbing and shocking that Tripwire Interactive would permit such trash in their forums. Now TWI is able to "enjoy" another in the long line of events to be remembered by."

Edit: why did you guys not understand this?
http://forums.raidersmerciless.com/showthread.php?t=4585
 
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