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Berserker Woes Part 1: Bugged Enemy Animations

Nanostrike

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
2,027
250
0
I'm starting a series of topics about current Berserker issues. It'll likely be ignored/trolled, but whatever. I like the class and I'm going to point out what, in my opinion, is wrong with it. Other zerkers can feel free to chime in with their two cents as well.

For starters, one of THE most annoying current issues with Zerker: Enemies being able to attack while in flinch animations. I'd known about this for a while, but can't record videos from my computer, so when someone finally showed a video on here about it, I felt compelled to point out the big problem right now

YouTube - Don't even bother playing Berserker anymore

Now, aside from saying "That zerker is a noob" and whatnot, pay attention to what's happening. The Gorefasts there are getting hit and going into their 'Flinching' animation, but STILL hitting the Zerker, WHILE in the flinch animation! Thus even if you're decapping them or putting out a beatdown that SHOULD leave them reeling, they can and will still hit immediately after being damaged.

You can't avoid the damage and thus, WILL be worn down by this. Even with 25% damage resistance at Level 6, a Gorefast still hits for ~45 damage total on Hard! You simply can't take that sort of punishment. Other classes don't notice as much because they're usually at safe range, but with Berserker it's blatantly obvious. Supports may notice this too, when a Shotgun hit fails to kill and the Gorefast smacks you immediately as it's reeling from it.

Note that this is only really noticable with Clots and Gorefasts, and only applies when you hurt them enough to induce flinching or decap them, but don't instantly kill them. If you pop a head off and they drop, they don't get to hit you. Thus this problem is RAMPANT with the Chainsaw, which almost never insta-kills, but almost unnoticable with the Katana, as it usually insta-kills them in a single hit.

Due to this, almost every Clot and Gorefast you hit with the chainsaw gets a free hit. Crawlers/Stalkers don't survive the decap, and Sirens/Scrakes don't decap until they die, so it doesn't apply there. It doesn't seem to happen to FPs, Husks, or Bloats, though.

I hope one of the TWI guys sees this, because I don't think it's meant to happen. If it is, feel free to tell me otherwise, dev-guys! If this is fixed, the chainsaw will rise from "Unusable" to "Inferior to Katana", and it would eliminate the occasional Gorefast surviving a Shotgun blast or glancing Katana hit to get divine retribution on you, making Berserkers and Supports lives easier.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,849
336
0
I'm starting a series of topics about current Berserker issues. It'll likely be ignored/trolled, but whatever. I like the class and I'm going to point out what, in my opinion, is wrong with it. Other zerkers can feel free to chime in with their two cents as well.

For starters, one of THE most annoying current issues with Zerker: Enemies being able to attack while in flinch animations. I'd known about this for a while, but can't record videos from my computer, so when someone finally showed a video on here about it, I felt compelled to point out the big problem right now

YouTube - Don't even bother playing Berserker anymore

Now, aside from saying "That zerker is a noob" and whatnot, pay attention to what's happening. The Gorefasts there are getting hit and going into their 'Flinching' animation, but STILL hitting the Zerker, WHILE in the flinch animation! Thus even if you're decapping them or putting out a beatdown that SHOULD leave them reeling, they can and will still hit immediately after being damaged.

You can't avoid the damage and thus, WILL be worn down by this. Even with 25% damage resistance at Level 6, a Gorefast still hits for ~45 damage total on Hard! You simply can't take that sort of punishment. Other classes don't notice as much because they're usually at safe range, but with Berserker it's blatantly obvious. Supports may notice this too, when a Shotgun hit fails to kill and the Gorefast smacks you immediately as it's reeling from it.

Note that this is only really noticable with Clots and Gorefasts, and only applies when you hurt them enough to induce flinching or decap them, but don't instantly kill them. If you pop a head off and they drop, they don't get to hit you. Thus this problem is RAMPANT with the Chainsaw, which almost never insta-kills, but almost unnoticable with the Katana, as it usually insta-kills them in a single hit.

Due to this, almost every Clot and Gorefast you hit with the chainsaw gets a free hit. Crawlers/Stalkers don't survive the decap, and Sirens/Scrakes don't decap until they die, so it doesn't apply there. It doesn't seem to happen to FPs, Husks, or Bloats, though.

I hope one of the TWI guys sees this, because I don't think it's meant to happen. If it is, feel free to tell me otherwise, dev-guys! If this is fixed, the chainsaw will rise from "Unusable" to "Inferior to Katana", and it would eliminate the occasional Gorefast surviving a Shotgun blast or glancing Katana hit to get divine retribution on you, making Berserkers and Supports lives easier.
I see your point and I have this kind of exp all the time. I usually play zerker for wave 1-3, when you dont kill the gorefast with one hit, over 90%of the time he can hit you once before it actually flinching. I'm not sure if this happens before as I dont really play zerker until last month.

Btw, you CAN decap stalkers crawlers and scrake, and they are not die yet. And one funny thing is the only 3 zeds you cannot stun is the crawler,siren and flesh pound(but you can "cancel" a fp's attack). Even you decap a crawler, you dont affect its movement. (Even a Flesh pound will stun for several second when you decap him!)
 

Zerethon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 5, 2009
338
4
0
Ohio
So does this make me a god as a berserker by solo'ing my own hellfire mutator on suicidal as a chainsaw user?

Yeah, they can flinch hit, if you stand still like an idiot, keep moving, they miss, you win

Try this:

Find a husk, preferably alone
Run up to it with the knife out (Any perk) dodging fireballs
Alt-knife it in the face
Back up, watching it melee the air uselessly
Repeat 2 through 4 above until it dies

what happens? the husk tries to melee you, but misses (Slow) while your knife altfire just BARELY connects, and then you move closer so it tries to punch again, and inevitably dies

This same logic works on anything, even Pounds, but not the patty due to his arsenal (he'll just LB you/Minigun you/Etc)

you're too used to the Zerker cyclone tactic to be useful as one, you require practice
 

trilance

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 16, 2009
210
5
0
For starters, one of THE most annoying current issues with Zerker: Enemies being able to attack while in flinch animations. I'd known about this for a while, but can't record videos from my computer, so when someone finally showed a video on here about it, I felt compelled to point out the big problem right now

Now, aside from saying "That zerker is a noob" and whatnot, pay attention to what's happening. The Gorefasts there are getting hit and going into their 'Flinching' animation, but STILL hitting the Zerker, WHILE in the flinch animation! Thus even if you're decapping them or putting out a beatdown that SHOULD leave them reeling, they can and will still hit immediately after being damaged.

You can't avoid the damage and thus, WILL be worn down by this. Even with 25% damage resistance at Level 6, a Gorefast still hits for ~45 damage total on Hard! You simply can't take that sort of punishment. Other classes don't notice as much because they're usually at safe range, but with Berserker it's blatantly obvious. Supports may notice this too, when a Shotgun hit fails to kill and the Gorefast smacks you immediately as it's reeling from it.
Yes...that is very weird and annoying. I nearly got killed by a gorefast on hard because he was able to attack me while "reeling" from my katana attack. And as for that zerker...it really was funny to watch again and again...

Chop Chop Chop BOOM...dead.
 
Last edited:

Benjamin

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
3,650
635
0
France
I've noticed something similar, although only online (which could be attributed to lag). I'd appreciate if someone could post a video in first person view demonstrating this glitch, as I can't really tell much from the video posted.
 

trilance

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 16, 2009
210
5
0
I've noticed something similar, although only online (which could be attributed to lag). I'd appreciate if someone could post a video in first person view demonstrating this glitch, as I can't really tell much from the video posted.
The gorefast has always displayed his attack animation, lag or not. The attack is associated with the animation, so what we're experiencing is a bug. If you want to see it in person, try whacking a gorefast with a weapon that doesn't kill it but can stun it and you'll see.
 

outofrealman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 29, 2009
1,849
336
0
So does this make me a god as a berserker by solo'ing my own hellfire mutator on suicidal as a chainsaw user?

Yeah, they can flinch hit, if you stand still like an idiot, keep moving, they miss, you win

Try this:

Find a husk, preferably alone
Run up to it with the knife out (Any perk) dodging fireballs
Alt-knife it in the face
Back up, watching it melee the air uselessly
Repeat 2 through 4 above until it dies

what happens? the husk tries to melee you, but misses (Slow) while your knife altfire just BARELY connects, and then you move closer so it tries to punch again, and inevitably dies

This same logic works on anything, even Pounds, but not the patty due to his arsenal (he'll just LB you/Minigun you/Etc)

you're too used to the Zerker cyclone tactic to be useful as one, you require practice
You sure this works on all difficulties!? I can dodge fps' att on normal, and on hard sometimes, and never on suicidal. THEY ATTACK WHILE MOVING.Your method works for Husks because they stop before they attack!!
I am using the Kanata AND I move backwards all the time when I melee a gorefast. My attack range is LONGER than them for sure. And I have 15% speed bonus as lv5 zerker. They still get one hit on me for many times even I stun them.
Yeah, sometimes gorefasts will stop before they attack. So if you run up to him to make him attack, sometimes he stand still and attack, and sometimes when you back up, he follows you and attack.
 

therajuncajun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 20, 2009
216
18
0
Zerethon I would really like to see you post a video of actually doing that because I don't believe it. All those husks firing at you, that's unlikely that you can outrun every blast. Also, zerking a fleshpound is nearly impossible anymore because no matter what sweet spot I hit their heads just dont want to pop off with chainsaw or katana. As for cancelling their attacks, I think that's a load of bull.
 

HaTeMe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
2,688
550
0
Behind You!
Zerethon I would really like to see you post a video of actually doing that because I don't believe it. All those husks firing at you, that's unlikely that you can outrun every blast. Also, zerking a fleshpound is nearly impossible anymore because no matter what sweet spot I hit their heads just dont want to pop off with chainsaw or katana. As for cancelling their attacks, I think that's a load of bull.
Yea you cant pop a fleshpounds head off with one hit anymore, as far as I know. At least not on suicidal.

Fleshpounds have 2625hp on suicidal difficulty, +375/player. I was able to kill a fleshpound with a katana, as berserker, and without body armor while playing solo. But if its a 6 man game, the fleshpound would have 2625+375*6= 4875hp. I dont think you can kill him before he kills you. Im lvl 5 berserker tho, so maybe with level 6 and a body armor you might be able to pull it off?
 

therajuncajun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 20, 2009
216
18
0
Yea you cant pop a fleshpounds head off with one hit anymore, as far as I know. At least not on suicidal.

Fleshpounds have 2625hp on suicidal difficulty, +375/player. I was able to kill a fleshpound with a katana, as berserker, and without body armor while playing solo. But if its a 6 man game, the fleshpound would have 2625+375*6= 4875hp. I dont think you can kill him before he kills you. Im lvl 5 berserker tho, so maybe with level 6 and a body armor you might be able to pull it off?
No no, he's saying you can cancel the fleshpounds attack by hitting it. Which you cant. Slash away, he's still gonna slug you in the face and then twist your innerds into a pretty little bow.
 

Zerethon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 5, 2009
338
4
0
Ohio
You sure this works on all difficulties!? I can dodge fps' att on normal, and on hard sometimes, and never on suicidal. THEY ATTACK WHILE MOVING.Your method works for Husks because they stop before they attack!!
I am using the Kanata AND I move backwards all the time when I melee a gorefast. My attack range is LONGER than them for sure. And I have 15% speed bonus as lv5 zerker. They still get one hit on me for many times even I stun them.
Yeah, sometimes gorefasts will stop before they attack. So if you run up to him to make him attack, sometimes he stand still and attack, and sometimes when you back up, he follows you and attack.
See the end, the "Stall" before he attacks is pretty simple, he only attacks while moving if the attack starts while you're moving away, same goes for scrakes, if he starts the anim and THEN you move, it will just BARELY miss you, ending with his face gone from your retaliation while his anim is "Locked" into that attack finished state, on scrakes, you can stun them to kill them with impunity

Zerethon I would really like to see you post a video of actually doing that because I don't believe it. All those husks firing at you, that's unlikely that you can outrun every blast. Also, zerking a fleshpound is nearly impossible anymore because no matter what sweet spot I hit their heads just dont want to pop off with chainsaw or katana. As for cancelling their attacks, I think that's a load of bull.
1. It isnt hard to do, go on biolabs, stand on the railing of a staircase, crouch and aim down, they cant splash you, you can headshot them until they make it a bit up the stairs, then you run and set up again elsewhere (Husks)

2. Yeah, it is, if you stand still with it it'll grind you into a fine red pulp like cheap hamburger, the trick is corners or doors, you can literally block it's attacks by backpedaling out a door and closing it, watching it's attack hit air as you narrowly avoid it from the delay of the door

3. See above, you cant actually STOP them, just delay them enough or block them to avoid them

No no, he's saying you can cancel the fleshpounds attack by hitting it. Which you cant. Slash away, he's still gonna slug you in the face and then twist your innerds into a pretty little bow.
No, i'm not, see above, i cancel them while solo by abusing doors and walls and things like pipes or grenades, which is a very different funnier story

Yea you cant pop a fleshpounds head off with one hit anymore, as far as I know. At least not on suicidal.

Fleshpounds have 2625hp on suicidal difficulty, +375/player. I was able to kill a fleshpound with a katana, as berserker, and without body armor while playing solo. But if its a 6 man game, the fleshpound would have 2625+375*6= 4875hp. I dont think you can kill him before he kills you. Im lvl 5 berserker tho, so maybe with level 6 and a body armor you might be able to pull it off?

Level 6, body armor + CSaw + Katana, solo suicidal, you cant pop it's head off, but you can abuse things like corners and doors to actually BLOCK it's attack (again, like above), just like a bullet, it attempts to hit you, but instead the hit connects with the wall or door, not your face, and the saw is amazing at popping the heads off of little crap like gores/clots/stalkers, while you can katana down things like scrakes and husks with alt-fires from it

in a 6-man game, i wait until he's on someone other than me, and run up to it to rage it right as it hits a pipe, The combined fire from my melee, Grenades, and a good sharp or 2 is more than enough to drop him in an instant
 

therajuncajun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 20, 2009
216
18
0
You need to be better at explaining yourself then Zerethon. You said "cancel" their attacks, which means make them stop attacking. All you are doing then is "avoiding" their attacks which is nothing new. People have been doing that since the start. As for the way you kill husks, that's just abusing map physics and AI so that they can't actually shoot you. If you did this while running around on West London getting surrounded and dodging 4+ fireballs flying at you at once, then I would be impressed.
 

Zerethon

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 5, 2009
338
4
0
Ohio
You need to be better at explaining yourself then Zerethon. You said "cancel" their attacks, which means make them stop attacking. All you are doing then is "avoiding" their attacks which is nothing new. People have been doing that since the start. As for the way you kill husks, that's just abusing map physics and AI so that they can't actually shoot you. If you did this while running around on West London getting surrounded and dodging 4+ fireballs flying at you at once, then I would be impressed.
West london:

Car tops
Behind the sandbag wall slightly
Long tunnels
Trash
Top of staircases
Desk

Fleshpounds-

-Doors of cathedral, offices, gate (somewhat)
-Pillar item spawn point, Telephone booth, tunnel wall edges

i'm at 134 games logged with my V3 now, and i'm in test game #27 on V3.5 where they can hit you with fireballs that pass close to/through you for an ignite (20-ish damage) as well as retarded amounts of games on poundamonium both pre and post level-up
 

therajuncajun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 20, 2009
216
18
0
As a berserker, I don't believe you. Unless you were playing beginner poundamonium, you couldn't kill those fleshpounds fast enough without decapping them perfectly 99% of the time which I highly doubt you were doing, and even then they will still smack you and do a ton of damage. The time you would have to spend running away to keep it so one nears you at a time would most certainly enrage some of the far back fleshpounds and send them racing towards you.
 

Nanostrike

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
2,027
250
0
The gorefast has always displayed his attack animation, lag or not. The attack is associated with the animation, so what we're experiencing is a bug. If you want to see it in person, try whacking a gorefast with a weapon that doesn't kill it but can stun it and you'll see.
That's what I was thinking. I'm not certain if the Tripwire guys are aware of it, but the community at large is starting to be. Fixing this would be a step in the right direction to redeem Berserker, if nothing else...
 

kingkong

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2009
456
17
0
gorefast attack animations/rate have been bugged for a long, long time, ever since they got buffed. at some point they were attacking at double the rate they were supposed to at times, like 2 gores instakilling people/breaking down doors as if there were 4. this seems to have been fixed a while ago but not totally I guess. either way if you're any good this is just a technicality, you should not be relying on the animations to know when it will attack by now.

what I'm really saying is that the zerk in the video just plain sucks, and failing to adapt to the new chainsaw. primary fire doesn't do enough damage to stun them in the same cases anymore, so you should not expect to be safe holding it out as you back away, even after you decap them since they can still attack. you misinterpreted what you saw there, he was getting hit by the gores after they got decapped, and the ones coming in from the sides that he wasn't paying attention to. whether or not this is fair/broken is a different story, but by now you should be using alt fire for anything besides a quick decap hit and run. I get what you're saying but that video is a piss poor example, just a noob rage on youtube.

no point in comparing it to katana either since it has completely different range and damage. primary fire has always had a higher dps than the chainsaw, just not as constant.
 

therajuncajun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 20, 2009
216
18
0
gorefast attack animations/rate have been bugged for a long, long time, ever since they got buffed. at some point they were attacking at double the rate they were supposed to at times, like 2 gores instakilling people/breaking down doors as if there were 4. this seems to have been fixed a while ago but not totally I guess. either way if you're any good this is just a technicality, you should not be relying on the animations to know when it will attack by now.

what I'm really saying is that the zerk in the video just plain sucks, and failing to adapt to the new chainsaw. primary fire doesn't do enough damage to stun them in the same cases anymore, so you should not expect to be safe holding it out as you back away, even after you decap them since they can still attack. you misinterpreted what you saw there, he was getting hit by the gores after they got decapped, and the ones coming in from the sides that he wasn't paying attention to. whether or not this is fair/broken is a different story, but by now you should be using alt fire for anything besides a quick decap hit and run. I get what you're saying but that video is a piss poor example, just a noob rage on youtube.

no point in comparing it to katana either since it has completely different range and damage. primary fire has always had a higher dps than the chainsaw, just not as constant.
Quite simply, you're missing the point. If you decap the gorefast, or any other zed, they should receive the same stunned effect and any attacks should be cancelled and restarted on the proper timer of when the stun would wear off. Cutting off their head and getting slashed while they're stunned before you can even move away is absolutely unacceptable. Berserkers have always relied on the ability to decap and run. Now we decap, get slashed as we decap, then get jumped by a teleporting zed from behind and die right before we can run. Pretttty lame.