Always hits in the middle of the screen

[VatelFak]

Hello! I have played KF for more than 1000h, i really love it!

One thing that always keeps me comming back to the game, is that you always hit in the middle of the screen.

Now, when i play SS (Sharpshooter) i never aim in, becouse i know it will hit dead center anyways..

Will this change in KF2? If not, i really look forward to noscope some more FP's!

 

[Uxkhal]

The recoil system will be changing a bit. Instead of any sort of randomized spread or anything like that your gun will always hit with 100% accuracy but as you fire your actual gun moves around due to recoil. If you can manage your recoil you'll land every single shot, nothing random about it.

It wont always be in the center of the screen though this time around from what I can gather because of that system. Your first couple of shots will probably always be centered but the more rapidly you fire the more you have to adjust your aim for it.

 

[Urik]

Well, they (devs) said something about new spread/recoil system that bullets will go exactly where the gun barrel is pointed at given moment, so maybe when you're not staying still you'll have more no-scope spread. No-scope accuracy has been important part of sharpshooter experience in kf, a last stand effort to kill the fp when he almost had ya.

 

[Moskeeto]

I assume and hope it's going to be more like RO2 when it comes to hipshooting.

 

[CrashFu]

Let's be honest here, having dead-eye accuracy with a rifle or crossbow without actually using the scope/ironsights/anything is a bit silly even by action-badass standards.

Unless of course you're using the rifle with the laser thing. I forget what it's called.

Additionally, according to the PC Gamer article at least, Sharpshooters now get bonuses while standing still, so if that's true then running around and hip-firing at things isn't your most optimal course of action anyways; you'll want to take the time to line up your shots unless you're just fending off something weak like clots where you can just hip-fire to the torso or whatever and be fine.


The change in weapon accuracy mechanic, I think, will have the biggest impact on commando. Going full-automatic instead of firing in bursts will have your gun going all over the place... the tradeoff is that now most commando guns are going to do more damage-per-bullet.

 

[VatelFak]

Let's be honest here, having dead-eye accuracy with a rifle or crossbow without actually using the scope/ironsights/anything is a bit silly even by action-badass standards.

I agree, sniper rifles/crossbow should not be 100% accurate from the hip.

What im saying is that Rifles, pistols, sub machiene guns, assault rifles... Should always be 100% accurate with the first shot..
- Or a twist on it, it should be something that's added in the new perk system.

 

[Don Draper]

I assume and hope it's going to be more like RO2 when it comes to hipshooting.

Problem with RO2 is that hip shooting seems to be overly randomized and luck only.

More even than one would expect in the real world i feel, which was always disappointing, but i understand why they do it, because it would probably ruin the game.

But in RO2 I think they should keep it in the centre, but increase recoil on hip shooting, rather than randomize where the bullet goes on each hip shot.

 

[Skell]

I assume and hope it's going to be more like RO2 when it comes to hipshooting.

I hope it's not. The arm movements look really weird and the the shooting to the middle of the screen helps players focus on what's more important in-game: Target priority and combo preparations.

 

[CrashFu]

I agree, sniper rifles/crossbow should not be 100% accurate from the hip.

What im saying is that Rifles, pistols, sub machiene guns, assault rifles... Should always be 100% accurate with the first shot..
- Or a twist on it, it should be something that's added in the new perk system.

Well, essentially, anything in which the projectiles don't realistically fly out at odd angles isn't going to have artificial "bullet spread"..

Beyond that everything should be roughly equivelant when it comes to hip-firing accuracy (as in, before recoil kicks in). We don't really know how things like movement may factor in to that, but it seems to me that if you AREN'T moving and you ARE concerned about accuracy... you really should be aiming? Because if there's no reason you should bother looking down the sights why would you ever?

It is possible that weapons equipped with laser-pointers may have a more noticeable effect when it comes to hip-firing this time around. Like a reduction in recoil-sway or faster accuracy regain. I never really bothered with that one rifle in the first game after I got good at aiming without a reticle.

 

[larkstongues42]

Let's be honest here, having dead-eye accuracy with a rifle or crossbow without actually using the scope/ironsights/anything is a bit silly even by action-badass standards.

It's a game, realism isn't what's more important, game play is. It rewards people who practice hip firing by letting them have a larger fov and less stuff cluttering up their screen. When I m14 sharp, I rarely if even ADS with the m14 (I also don't use the laser[cause it stinx]), I've had to practice and it pays off. Skills based game play should be more important than "realism" in a "zombie/zed apocalypse" game. I'm not saying make hipfire exactly like ADSing but, if you make hip firing too useless, it just forces people to ADS rather than to learn to hip fire and reap the benefits.

TL;DR version, I think you're wrong and you smell.

 

[CrashFu]

It's a game, realism isn't what's more important, game play is. It rewards people who practice hip firing by letting them have a larger fov and less stuff cluttering up their screen. When I m14 sharp, I rarely if even ADS with the m14 (I also don't use the laser[cause it stinx]), I've had to practice and it pays off. Skills based game play should be more important than "realism" in a "zombie/zed apocalypse" game. I'm not saying make hipfire exactly like ADSing but, if you make hip firing too useless, it just forces people to ADS rather than to learn to hip fire and reap the benefits.

TL;DR version, I think you're wrong and you smell.

Haha. Is that how you think good gameplay design works?

You think it's COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE to ask players to choose between mobility+FoV OR a bonus to precision, which they can switch between at will from one fraction of a second to the next as they wish..

But it's reasonable to make people choose between having all three benefits simultaneously with no downside whatsoever or.... being punished with NO advantage comparitively for DARING to use a gun the way it was designed to be used?

Edit: OH WAIT, WAIT, maybe what you MEANT is that you want gameplay to be even LESS approachable for newer players than KF1 was and even MORE tediously homogenized at higher skill levels, by having basic functions of our weapon use just suddenly become obsolete forever as soon as we learn where the center of the screen is (or apply a li'l dab of sticky-tac the way I know some of you cheaters do), was that it?

Either way..

The default size of this smiley isn't an appropriate enough reaction to you, so:

 

[KingJoker]

Science fiction is suppose to be realistic, it's not suppose to be a fantasy wonderland where all the laws of physics are thrown out the window, YES there is Zeds, but what does that mean? Do bullets and guns not work the same way anymore because of this?

Quit using the whole "ZEDs/Apocalpyse hardly realistic" excuse, it's stupid.

Hipshooting should have random qualities to shooting and just be luck based. players should be forced to aim down the ironsights to get accurate shots off.

Mostly for two reasons: It's realistic gun play mechanics, which Tripwire is all about, and two it forces the field of view to be restricted which makes for interesting gameplay when you perceive the entire surrounding area.

 

[Fedorov]

Science fiction is suppose to be realistic, it's not suppose to be a fantasy wonderland where all the laws of physics are thrown out the window, YES there is Zeds, but what does that mean? Do bullets and guns not work the same way anymore because of this?

Quit using the whole "ZEDs/Apocalpyse hardly realistic" excuse, it's stupid.

Hipshooting should have random qualities to shooting and just be luck based. players should be forced to aim down the ironsights to get accurate shots off.

Mostly for two reasons: It's realistic gun play mechanics, which Tripwire is all about, and two it forces the field of view to be restricted which makes for interesting gameplay when you perceive the entire surrounding area.

In Red Orchestra it is not random, the bullets go where the gun is pointing at, which is how it should be. You have free aim so you don't have the dumb "bullets go to the center by default", but you can still "feel" where the bullets are going and it is a skill you can practice and master.

Having bullets go to the center or just a random spread are both unrealistic approaches.

The game, while unrealistic in theme, should be realistic in mechanics, because it is the mechanics what makes it feel alive and draws you in, and can actually make the unbelievable, believable.

 

[KingJoker]

In Red Orchestra it is not random, the bullets go where the gun is pointing at, which is how it should be. You have free aim so you don't have the dumb "bullets go to the center by default", but you can still "feel" where the bullets are going and it is a skill you can practice and master.

Having bullets go to the center or just a random spread are both unrealistic approaches.

The game, while unrealistic in theme, should be realistic in mechanics, because it is the mechanics what makes it feel alive and draws you in, and can actually make the unbelievable, believable.

Exactly, and yes im sorry i didnt explain my self more with the hipshot - you're absolutely correct. They're should be some "skill" involved with hipshot - but i also believe hipshots should have ridiculous recoil. or some punishment of some sort. It's just not orthodox to shoot from the hip, i understand people can shoot from the hip, and very accurate at it to be honest, i just don't seem the game should reward impracticability.

 

[Fedorov]

The problem is that people think the Red Orchestra system is hard or random, but it is not, it can be practiced, and mastered:

Hip Firing the MG 34 - Red Orchestra 2 - YouTube
Red Orchestra Hip Shooting Frag Movie - YouTube

Hip firing in a realistic model, is still very effective in close quarters and in some of those situations is preferred than ironsights because it gives you a faster reaction and more maneuverability.

However, in current KF, having hip firing always going to the center of the screen only serves to quicksnipe and it makes ironsights completely useless. In fact, one could argue that ironsights are worse than putting a dot on your screen and hipfire, because with the ironsights on, the gun model gets in the way.

 

[moleculo]

They're should be some "skill"

there != they're
Those words are so completely different I don't understand how somebody could systematically keep mixing them up. Is it an American thing?

@ CrashFu
go away

 

[larkstongues42]

Haha. Is that how you think good gameplay design works?

You think it's COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE to ask players to choose between mobility+FoV OR a bonus to precision, which they can switch between at will from one fraction of a second to the next as they wish..

But it's reasonable to make people choose between having all three benefits simultaneously with no downside whatsoever or.... being punished with NO advantage comparitively for DARING to use a gun the way it was designed to be used?

Edit: OH WAIT, WAIT, maybe what you MEANT is that you want gameplay to be even LESS approachable for newer players than KF1 was and even MORE tediously homogenized at higher skill levels, by having basic functions of our weapon use just suddenly become obsolete forever as soon as we learn where the center of the screen is (or apply a li'l dab of sticky-tac the way I know some of you cheaters do), was that it?

Either way..

The default size of this smiley isn't an appropriate enough reaction to you, so:

... are you serious?

Even in KF, people like dev ADS and a lot of other really good sharp do too (if you want to talk about aiming). And having good hipfire doesn't make the game less approachable, it just rewards people who practice. Plus there are different difficulties for a reason. Not everyone should be playing HoE and that's OK. If don't want to learn the game and how it works, playing normal or hard is perfectly fine (as long as they're having fun).

Don't ruin a game for others because some people are too lazy to get good at it or "realism." The more hours you put into a game, the better you should get. If you set the max skill limit to be lower, the game becomes extremely boring for people who put in a lot of hours. That's what a lot of people love about KF is that if you practice enough you can do all sorts of crazy and cool things that are skill related. People who have 1k+ hours SHOULD be better than people with 100 hours. Don't be lazy.

 

[Skell]

wurds

larks. bb. Lets huddle up for a sec.

What you're dealing with here are people who bought this game really early on and played it for ~100 hours (like you said). They think they're experienced because they've owned the game for a long period of time, not because they've been playing it for a long time like you.

I doubt most of them have actually played/beaten HoE. If they did, wouldn't they be complaining more about the dumb specimen mechanics problems (sliding scrakes) that would break their suspension of disbelief/gurdyhurr?

The point is that these people want to make this mechanic practically unusable in a fast-paced PvE environment, not because the particular mechanic makes the game too easy, but because they don't want to take the time to take advantage of it.

 

[KingJoker]

Skell the game is gritty, i find it increasingly difficult how you can deny this, but this isn't the time and place for this discussion.

moleculo insulting people for their grammar is nothing more then picking for a fight - just stay on topic.

Skell the game should make hip shooting even more difficult, and i see no reason for them not too. Are you a "master" at hipshooting and don't want to risk losing an advantage you have "acquired?" If i was as confident in my abilities as you seem to be I would enjoy a more challenging hipshooting experience.

 

[aesdana]

Just thinking about having to learn a new KF without the first bullet going dead center... It