Adding the Vz 58

[Deleted member 66135]

zb26 was Produced under license by the Chinese Nationalist in the 30s and was used in ww2 and the chinese civil war at the end of this in 1950 was given as military aid to the Viet Minh in the France Indochina War 46 to 54. some were seen in the hands of the vietcong at the star of the vietnam war
http://www.tac-team.dk/Indochina/vap...eapon/ZB26.htm


and yes Czechoslovakia Weapons like vz. 58,Å korpion vz. 61, Uk vz. 59 and ZB-53 were giving/sold to the nva/vc but are not as common as Soviet and chinese ones are

 

[Flashburn]

I think I can answer that.
I quote:
"In 1965 around 1500 Vz58s were sent to North Vietnam. Another batch was from second phase production. Since 1969 North Vietnam received 10 000 -15 000 Vz58s each year."
Source:
http://www.nam-valka.cz/zbrane/vz58.html

Another source, which a book "Československé zbraně ve světě: V míru i za války" (Czechoslovakian firearms in the world: In both peace and war) by Francev Vladimir claims that North Vietnam received 1300 Vz58s in 1965. Another batch in 1969 (10 000 guns). Another 8 000 were sent next year and another 12 000 - 15 000 in 70's each year.

In the next paragraph there are other guns mentioned (I assume, he's still talking about aid to Vietnam):
- 600 vz.61s
- 1 460 vz.54 sniper rifles (between 1966-1968)
- 15 000 vz.43/44S (it says "Soviet carbine"... so SKS I assume?)
- 5 000 vz.41S SMGs (PPSh-41)
- 1 000 ZB vz.26 LMGs
- 500 vz. 43 MGs
- 5 000 vz52/57

Nice...

I have never heard of a vz.43 and a vz44 is a flare pistol? But pretty sure the Czech's never made SKS's. The vz52/57 did the same thing however. Interesting if ugly rifle. I would guess from the soviet bit and the year (probably of soviet adoption which probably means made early on once they got sucked into the Warsaw Pact/occupied by the Red Army. So hmmmm ya. Mute point. Just interesting. But the Czech arms industry has always been quite good. And I have never heard of vz52's in this war. But 5000 would be a vary small blip considering the number of folks in the VC and NVA. If one popped up here or there no one would pay attention since something from everywhere ended up here.

So back to the VZ 58. Clearly 1500 is 1500 more MKB's than at Stalingrad. =) 10,000 is enough to arm a division of infantry..... So while not HUGE numbers, that is by far not small either. So by 71 there where like 40000 or so floating about. I just wonder who got these things in the main. I am guessing NVA. I also sort of wonder why? These share nothing in common with an AK pattern rifle to include the magazine. Same caliber but ya. Perhaps just to keep a supply channel open as a fall back if the North pissed off China? Those 2 never got along historically. But these are known to be more accurate than a AK of their day while probably a tad less reliable. This do to its totally open top when firing the thing during ejecting/chambering cycle. But guns never jam in RO/RS series so who cares.

So if some modeler type is idle with nothing to do, make us one these things please AM/TW.

 

[Perun58]

Vz.43 is probably Czechoslovakian name for SG-43 Goryunov.
No, Czechoslovakia never made an SKS nor PPSh-41. These guns were Soviet made from WW2.

Vietnamese ready liked the Vz58 after they received few in 1965. They were asking for more rifles since then.

Vz.58 is technically less likely to jam than the AK, because the ejection port is much bigger.
On the other hand it's obviously less protected against the enviroment. Also the gas system needed more maintenance than the AK.
Finally plastic stocks and handguards of the Vz58 were a little bit brittle and could break sometimes.
Overall the gun was very reliable. In reliability test that was before adoption of the Vz58 (or shortly after?) both AKM and Vz58 were doing great with only 1 problem on each rifle.

When it comes to having the Vz58 in the game I see one problem.
Which class should have it? Do you want to make it avaliable for every grunt? Would not we see more people running with Vz58 than the AK?
Because in the game the Vz58 would be all around better option. Slightly more accurate, similar recoil, higher rate of fire, bolt would stay open after last shot, lighter....
It should be avaliable for squad leaders, but since they can pick any class I have no idea how to implement something like that...

 

[Flashburn]

Or just do something based on map. Like hand out vz-58's like candy to riflemen for a map where it makes sense. Never understood why EVERYTHING needs to be available at all times always. It does not make sense real world to mix two different 7.62X39mm rifles that use different magazines that kind of look alike. Suddenly some idiot gave you 7 AK mags for your vz-58 and visa versa. I would wager that units got one or the other. But not both. Or course that would also be across the board and I have no idea why NVA would be giving out ppsh's to their guys in like 1965 and a later. VC...ya. Whatever they could get. A real Army? NO.

So that is how I would personally choose to brake up weapons selection across the board. Less choose your own adventure for something that is supposedly going for quasi realism. Would do the same for US. An infantry unit usually had either all M14's or all m16's. Although, not always. Some still had a guy with an m14 or 2 mixed in. Unit depending and when.

Speaking of the M14.... M14a1/m14e2 would be nice. The intended full auto BAR replacement...sort of. And or some unlocked select fire M14's. But that is another topic.

 

[BD38]

Before adding the Vzor 58, I would rather see the K50M, MP38&40 and the PPS43 implemented.
Especially a K50M is needed.

 

[Flashburn]

Before adding the Vzor 58, I would rather see the K50M, MP38&40 and the PPS43 implemented.
Especially a K50M is needed.

Actually your right....the K50 is badly missing. Vary common SMG in early part of the war. In fact get rid off all the PPSH's and replace with this thing by and large.

 

[Arisaka99]

Not ALL of the PPSh's. It was relatively common in the form of the Type 50. Lots of Russian designed weapons were produced by China and used by the North Vietnamese, the PPSh was one of those weapons.

 

[Flashburn]

Not ALL of the PPSh's. It was relatively common in the form of the Type 50. Lots of Russian designed weapons were produced by China and used by the North Vietnamese, the PPSh was one of those weapons.

Of course not. That is what I mean by and large. Mechanically its the same gun. PPSh seems more something VC would have. K50m is more something NVA might have. But they do the same thing in the same way as effectively the same gun.

So a brake down this way for factions. Or do something like make the PPSH a tad more controllable (do to weighting more) and the K50m more maneuverable do to less weight as a selectable for class. Magazines and drums are exactly the same thing.